Been on NS10's for 12yrs, now need to treat my ears

[passmore]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Midrange detail and transient response.

Considering they have a 6db bump at 2K I'll give you that.
and they have nothing below 70Hz
Listening to to NS-10 for 10 hours is like running a double marathon your ears will take a long time recover.
I have been using NS-10's since the 80's and I can't listen to them for more than a minute or two.
I can list off a dozen speakers that have better midrange detail and transient response, detail is not a work I would use to describe the sound of an NS10.

[cinealta]

Don't do it. Get yourself a nice amp and stay on the NS10s.

[Audio X]

Originally Posted by cinealta

Don't do it. Get yourself a nice amp and stay on the NS10s.

Why are you trying to extend his sentence? He's served his time.

[cinealta]

Originally Posted by Audio X

Why are you trying to extend his sentence? He's served his time.

Just seen too many folks spend several thousands of dollars chasing their tails only to end up where they started. NS10s sound terrible but are helpful in creating good sounding mixes that translate well. Have heard and used several *much* better sounding monitors (had Genelecs, now co-running NHT Pros here...sound great) but IMO they haven't significantly *helped* in improving mixes. By all means knock yourself out with $10K+ PMCs but will it significantly enhance the sound of your mixes? Ask yourself that truly. The easiest person to fool is oneself.

Just a personal philosophy of Weak Point training. The best skiers trained on ice. When they hit Colorado powder they ski fall line. The best athletes train at altitude. Bring 'em to sea level and you have "New WR." The best guitarists learned on terrible actions out of a Sears catalog. Give 'em a late 50s Les Paul or early 60s Strat and they're moving human emotion.

If you can mix well on NS10s...you will have a shot at a good sounding mix. "You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave." Ditch the gear crutches and stand tall on talent.

[saggsy]

I agree that I can get my mixes to the right place but getting there is a battle sometimes, especially when the song is still in the writing process, I need something which inspires the songs evolution as well as letting me know that I'm capturing sources in a way which makes the mix process quicker and easier.

saggsy

[Audio X]

I see cinealta's point but mainly as a second or third set of reference speakers.

Big in the 80's and 90's ... but it is now 2012.

It's true that there is not much happening below 70Hz and there's a 5 dB bump at 2.5K.

There are much better speakers out there these days. You shouldn't torture yourself.

[javd007]

You know what the NS 10s simply "WORK". If you want to enjoy your music as well i can 100 percent understand getting other monitors. But for simply mixing, The NS 10s work. How much more do you need monitors to "WORK"? Its a tool. You might be chasing the ark. However for enjoying music then by all means get high end monitors. Regarding the 80 and 90s comment. HUH? Ns 10s still work whether its 91 or 2012. They are still in 90 percent of all major studios. At the very least use them as a secondary reference set to your new ones.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by cinealta

Don't do it. Get yourself a nice amp and stay on the NS10s.

Indeed - a good amp makes all the difference.

As for transient response, the only monitors I've heard that do "the ns10 thing" but with a decent bass response are The Rocks.

[Andreas G]

Originally Posted by purplesky

If the NS10s sound so bad why are they still used so much by people who can afford much more expensive monitors?

Seems strange.

With Ns10s it's really not about their sound as listening monitors.
It's about what they cause you to do when you build up a mix and how it translates to other playback systems.

People who use NS10s very often use also more expensive monitors exactly for the reason the OP is looking for now.
I'm a bit surprised that the OP worked with NS10s for so long as his only monitors.

What seems strange to me are these passionated hater folks about NS10s. Well, in a rather funny way of course.
If I don't like a certain tool I just don't care for it and for sure I won't get passionated about my disliking ;-)

I read funny things like "I've been using them since the 80th, I can't listen to them for more than a minute or two".
Well, I'm wondering why folks have been using them for so long then?


Cheers,
Andy

[saggsy]

kids, running my own business, other things requiring purchase in the studio, and life in general - are the reasons I've been on NS-10's so long.

When I first got into this audio thing I had a pair of Event 20/20's which sounded 'ok' but nothing ever, ever translated - could have been my mix experience back then but, I soon sold them and bought a pair of NS-10's brand new for $600 for the pair about a month before they declared them 'no longer for sale' - still have the boxes they came in

I think I knew in the back of my head that I wouldn't be buying monitors for a while whilst I built up my equipment list, so I forced myself to learn them (not that bad an experience) and did not expect to still be solely using them 12 years later.

I actually like the sound of NS-10's - dont flame me - but its probably cause I've grown to know what to expect from them - problem is, cause they are the only set I have, every person that comes into the studio be it client, friend or family can definately not appreciate hearing my mixes which should be blowing their minds, but they cant listen 'into' the speakers like I can to hear the gold.

Surely there are some of you guys out there that can share a bit of your experiences with these monitors that I'm looking at, jeez even just to let me know how great you think they are

saggsy

[AlexK]

Running ATC SCM20 SLs here - the best two-ways I've heard by quite a stretch. Midrange transparency and low end punch like you wouldn't believe. Superb imaging too - very three-dimensional. There's nothing better than ATC IMO, although there are also a lot of other very good options - Harbeth, Quested, Gethain, Barefoot.

Whatever you get, remember to include the best amplification you can if it's required. It makes a huge difference on my SCM20s!

[Audio X]

Originally Posted by Andreas G

What seems strange to me are these passionated hater folks about NS10s.

Well, in a rather funny way of course.

TY


If you're referring to me, I'm not a h8r of the ns10,.. I've owned quite a few pair .. They have their use. ...but ....they were never primaries .. a very quirky speaker that can have you chasing your tail if you're not careful. ..over and out. GL

[stevens119]

Originally Posted by saggsy

After 12yrs mixing only on NS10's I finally have some spare cash to spend on some nice monitors.

Originally was thinking of getting PMC TB2Sa's and had thought along that vein for a long time.

Just recently had a pay rise and now my monitor budget has stepped up a bit so then I was thinking of K+H 0300d's.

Then I thought, well if im gonna spend that much then maybe I should get a set which will last me forever and started looking at BareFoot MM35's and ATC smc25a's.

I realize that im going to be in for a treat with any of these monitors but im trying to justify spending $7000 instead of $3000-$5000.

I've read pretty much every thread on all these monitors all responses are happy with their PMC's, most people are happy with their 0300d's (bass gets limited at higher volumes?), all seem happy with their MM35's and scm25a's.

I'm sure I'll get responses like "monitor selection is a personal choice" and "why dont you try before you buy", but where i live you cant try any of the above mentioned monitors.

I'm really wondering if by getting something in the PMC TB2Sa price range if it is just going to be adequate or if I bump it up to the $7000 price range im going to wet my pants when I hear them.

Room size is 10'x14'x8'

saggsy

P.S. If I go for a more full range set I don't want to have the hassle of adding a sub.

Dude....P M C

Specifically PMC TB2...and get a Bryston. The imaging is absolutely incredible. They are as good as NS-10's as far as mixing decisions go, and they sound alot better. So it keeps a little bit of the familiarity with NS-10's, but more accurate, and better sound. Please....try them before you decide on something else. They will cause you to mix better, and your clients will love they way they sound. There is literally no fatigue ever...listening at reasonable volumes of course. These are those speakers that cause you to hear something you never heard before in a mix you've heard a million times, and the translation is transparent. You'll know if it doesn't sound right before it gets played anywhere else. Wanna spend more money? Get a bigger Bryston to go with it

[Andreas G]

Originally Posted by Audio X

TY


If you're referring to me, I'm not a h8r of the ns10,..

No worries, I didn't refer to you exactly.

I've owned quite a few pair .. They have their use. ...but ....they were never primaries .. a very quirky speaker that can have you chasing your tail if you're not careful. ..over and out. GL

I'd rather prefer to have a truth but predictable asshole sitting in front of me telling me, f**k ya, which I know was meant true, than that fabric softener telling me everything is always fine, just love and cotton balls but you never know if that's really case – for me that might have chasing my tail.


But anyways,

all good!

Like them hate them or whatever, that's life.


Cheers,
Andy

[Annex2]

Originally Posted by cinealta

Don't do it. Get yourself a nice amp and stay on the NS10s.

Agreed! If you need more low end, get a sub too.

[pieter k]

Originally Posted by stevens119

Dude....P M C

Specifically PMC TB2...and get a Bryston. The imaging is absolutely incredible....Get a bigger Bryston to go with it

Slightly off topic, but since I'm here, aside from the superb sound of Bryston products, one additional feature of Bryston that is pretty tremendous is a 20--yes TWENTY-- year warranty.

[mac black]

I've tried for many years to move on to another speaker.

Impossible as there is nothing like it.

You need to learn how to listen to a new set of monitors, which ones really depends on you, there are many ways to skin a salmon.

At the moment I'm using Focal CMS 40 to work on and ADAM S4X-H for a loud fat listen but I'm still checking stuff on the NS-10 although I only try to do that at the end of a mix.

[ECM]

Originally Posted by AlexK

. There's nothing better than ATC IMO, although there are also a lot of other very good options - Harbeth, Quested, Gethain, Barefoot.

!

There is no one monitor better than the rest, it's very personal as to what you like ,there is quite a few more monitors that you don't list that are all as good as each other, it's all about finding the monitor that works for you best personally (I love the mid range scope on ATC's but prefer other monitors for the other area's)

[david L]

20 yrs plus on ns10s...other monitors rotate in & out of my control room, but the yammies are a constant ...bryston amp always.

Cheers

[Rob Coates]

What are you going to do with your old NS10s? I'll take them off your hands for you.

[woody reed]

I got my first set of NS10s in 1985 because every studio I worked in had them. I started to get an itch for new monitors in the late 90s as I was doing more critical work at home, not just preproduction and writing. I heard a lot of different speakers in different studios. I ended up buying some Genelec 1032s in 1999/2000? It got rid of my itch and I've never even been curious to try others. I wouldn't call them the most pleasant to listen to, but why I like them.

1. Every mix I do translates everywhere. way better then when I was on NS10s. Even on a system with a sub, the bottom stays balanced.
2. Ultra revealing. Top end flaws like clicks and pops just jump out. Bottom end rubs become very apparent. And I can still balance the mid range.
3. They can really crank if you need that. Great for tracking with guys in the control room.

Reason number 1 is the most important. I just like the way mixes turn out on them and still do. Top contenders at the time were KRK Expose 8s. They seemed to have more of that midrange thing that NS10s do, and the mixes I did with them sounded that way too. Mastering Lab custom Tannoy/Yamaha amp set-up. Again, more like the NS10s. The bass guitar and kick always sat in the mix a little higher up in frequency when I used that set-up. A little more chesty sounding if that makes sense. Genelec mixes just seem to kick in the butt more then in the chest. So, to each their own. But I probably have sold a dozen sets of things over the years by guys checkin mine out.