Neverending debate on 1176 LN vs. MC77

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by airmate

One aspect that has not been discussed too much so far:

My vintage Blackface unit clearly shows its age, many scratches on the faceplate etc...
But still it feels MUCH more solid and rugged than the Purple Audio comp. That one is rather flimsy in comparison, also when compared to the UA reissues. In fact I was a little bit shocked about the Purple's build "quality". It may sound great, but it definitely not built like a tank like the vintage Urei units.

Originally Posted by airmate

Oh, btw, some food for thought for those who claim that the recent UA reissue would be clearly inferior to the MC77:

UA 2-1176 vs. Urei 1176LN vs. Urei 1178

In this example the difference between the recent 2-1176, my Rev F 1176 and my 1178 is so small that I doubt anyone could resonably say the MC77 is clearly closer to the "real thing" than the UA one.

OK - first you're talking about "chassis" steel - which implies you've picked one up... which implies you might have held one that wasn't in the box... well there are a whole bunch of MC-77's out on tours -- where they get thrown around, bounced, [etc.] -- that wouldn't be the case if they had any kind of regular failure rate -- in a studio they sit in a rack with no bouncing so your chassis observation probably isn't relevant to the majority of readers of this forum.

Also, as you've had one in your hands its not a long stretch to think you might have plugged one in... so I have to wonder why no comments on the tone, texture or action of the unit in your derisive report?

Then you also say there isn't a large difference between a REV F [which if I remember correctly is a "silver face"... which means its transformerless like the 1178]... no idea what they did on the 2-1176 [w/transformers, w/o transformers... right input attenuator? - wrong input attenuator? -- no idea]... but you can't imagine its closer to the "real thing".

Without any imagination on my part required... I've had an MC-77 sitting next to a blackface UREi 1176LN [Rev D if I remember correctly] and it held its own... I've also had a "reissue" sitting next to the same UREi 1176LN and my thought was "not so much".

As always YMMV - and there is nothing wrong with that... but, I'm relaying personal experience rather than a bunch of clips that will take the listener deeper into conjecture land. The whole "clips" thing is really cute... but the fact of the matter is that something as seemingly insignificant as a 1/4db of output level will take the "test" to the point where the "loudest" unit will win. My point being that the only "truth" will be found by actually trying the unit - on a mix - in the context of your music. If it fails then - then it was a valid test and the unit isn't for you... if it passes then it passes... but either way, it would be a valid test as that test would be performed "in context" and will be relevant to the user's [or potential user's] reality.

Peace

[jcc449]

LN1176 beats MC77 for me.
And I love Nickelback & I hate Radiohead.

Anything that get me the sound of the Nickelback - like front and punchiness will win my money.

[RickSample]

I read several threads here where many found the purple to be brighter than others, and sometimes even too bright. That is the only negative (for some) I have read about the purple.

[rob S]

Nickelback, really?
I'd take the UA re issue over that.

[airmate]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

OK - first you're talking about "chassis" steel - which implies you've picked one up... which implies you might have held one that wasn't in the box... well there are a whole bunch of MC-77's out on tours -- where they get thrown around, bounced, [etc.] -- that wouldn't be the case if they had any kind of regular failure rate -- in a studio they sit in a rack with no bouncing so your chassis observation probably isn't relevant to the majority of readers of this forum.

Also, as you've had one in your hands its not a long stretch to think you might have plugged one in... so I have to wonder why no comments on the tone, texture or action of the unit in your derisive report?

Then you also say there isn't a large difference between a REV F [which if I remember correctly is a "silver face"... which means its transformerless like the 1178]... no idea what they did on the 2-1176 [w/transformers, w/o transformers... right input attenuator? - wrong input attenuator? -- no idea]... but you can't imagine its closer to the "real thing".

Without any imagination on my part required... I've had an MC-77 sitting next to a blackface UREi 1176LN [Rev D if I remember correctly] and it held its own... I've also had a "reissue" sitting next to the same UREi 1176LN and my thought was "not so much".

As always YMMV - and there is nothing wrong with that... but, I'm relaying personal experience rather than a bunch of clips that will take the listener deeper into conjecture land. The whole "clips" thing is really cute... but the fact of the matter is that something as seemingly insignificant as a 1/4db of output level will take the "test" to the point where the "loudest" unit will win. My point being that the only "truth" will be found by actually trying the unit - on a mix - in the context of your music. If it fails then - then it was a valid test and the unit isn't for you... if it passes then it passes... but either way, it would be a valid test as that test would be performed "in context" and will be relevant to the user's [or potential user's] reality.

Peace

I do not want to argue, but: I have not only made the clips, but I have been working with all these units for years. Everything that I say is not only based on the clips, but on these years of experience. Please do yourself the favor and listen to the files.

You will find that
a) they ARE precisely level-matched and
b) the DO sound very close to each other.


I indeed have no listeneing experience with the Purple. I have just seen then in various studios. But I do not have any agenda against the Purple, and I do noth find my statements "derisive" either.

My whole point is: From my experience with a fairly vast number of "1176" units it appears kind of strange to me that the Purple should be MUCH (as in "night and day") closer to an 1176 Rev D/E when I find the UA reissue already VERY close to the 1176LN Rev D/E.

Descriptions in the proportions of "night and day" just do not fit here, at least not in my book. YMMV, of course...

However, I find a somewhat patronizing undertone in your post. or is it just me?

[skybluerental]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

OK - first you're talking about "chassis" steel - which implies you've picked one up... which implies you might have held one that wasn't in the box... well there are a whole bunch of MC-77's out on tours -- where they get thrown around, bounced, [etc.] -- that wouldn't be the case if they had any kind of regular failure rate -- in a studio they sit in a rack with no bouncing so your chassis observation probably isn't relevant to the majority of readers of this forum.

Also, as you've had one in your hands its not a long stretch to think you might have plugged one in... so I have to wonder why no comments on the tone, texture or action of the unit in your derisive report?

Then you also say there isn't a large difference between a REV F [which if I remember correctly is a "silver face"... which means its transformerless like the 1178]... no idea what they did on the 2-1176 [w/transformers, w/o transformers... right input attenuator? - wrong input attenuator? -- no idea]... but you can't imagine its closer to the "real thing".

Without any imagination on my part required... I've had an MC-77 sitting next to a blackface UREi 1176LN [Rev D if I remember correctly] and it held its own... I've also had a "reissue" sitting next to the same UREi 1176LN and my thought was "not so much".

As always YMMV - and there is nothing wrong with that... but, I'm relaying personal experience rather than a bunch of clips that will take the listener deeper into conjecture land. The whole "clips" thing is really cute... but the fact of the matter is that something as seemingly insignificant as a 1/4db of output level will take the "test" to the point where the "loudest" unit will win. My point being that the only "truth" will be found by actually trying the unit - on a mix - in the context of your music. If it fails then - then it was a valid test and the unit isn't for you... if it passes then it passes... but either way, it would be a valid test as that test would be performed "in context" and will be relevant to the user's [or potential user's] reality.

Peace

FYI:
A Urei 1176 Rev F is a blackface unit with input and output trannies.

[The Beatsmith]

Originally Posted by jcc449

LN1176 beats MC77 for me.
And I love Nickelback & I hate Radiohead.

Anything that get me the sound of the Nickelback - like front and punchiness will win my money.

The guys at Purple won't be able to make 'em fast enough now...

[rob S]

Originally Posted by jcc449

LN1176 beats MC77 for me.
And I love Nickelback & I hate Radiohead.

Anything that get me the sound of the Nickelback - like front and punchiness will win my money.

In fact i'd take a mayo sandwhich over nickelback.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by yotonic

Unless you're some sort of savant with a particular creative vision, I just can't understand the point of the MC77. It has a shrill, sheer top end that's great if you're cutting hair, but "if you think" you're making a living off of your ears, spend another $700 and get a UREI or a CL1B.

sad!
i will gladly take the MC77!!!!

want me to repeat that?
okay i will: )

i will gladly take the MC77!!!!

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by skybluerental

A Urei 1176 Rev F is a blackface unit with input and output trannies.

Thanx... for some reason I thought "blackface" with I/O X-formers ended with "E". Thanks for information, much obliged.

Peace

[Steamy Williams]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Thanx... for some reason I thought "blackface" with I/O X-formers ended with "E". Thanks for information, much obliged.

Peace

The Rev F does however have a different output amplifier (Class AB) to the Rev D/E (Class A), as well as a different output transformer.

[jcc449]

Originally Posted by rob S

In fact i'd take a mayo sandwhich over nickelback.

See?
Exactly why I said this topic will has no useful conclusion!
With this "ranges" of difference in music taste, there will be no common.

[kats]

The main difference between the two is simply the transistors used. On the UA they go with the 2N3708 and with the Purple they use the 2N5088, the latter believed to add a brighter edge to the sound of the unit. That's all we are talking about here (except for the small run UA made years back that didn't have the proper attenuator) I'm not sure on the xformers the companies use, but that would also have an affect on the sound.

Having used both versions side by side, meh... I wouldn't care either way. I did build a pair to Blue Stripe specs, which I prefer - that is if your going for that early transistor sound, you might as well go all out. That to me is the sound of all these boxes anyhow

[rob S]

Purples are definitely brighter and the gain structure seems different.
Im done with the UA experiment.
I dont find any of the re issues to sound right.
And I wish that wasnt the case.

[jrod9900]

Originally Posted by kats

The main difference between the two is simply the transistors used. On the UA they go with the 2N3708 and with the Purple they use the 2N5088, the latter believed to add a brighter edge to the sound of the unit. That's all we are talking about here (except for the small run UA made years back that didn't have the proper attenuator) I'm not sure on the xformers the companies use, but that would also have an affect on the sound.

Having used both versions side by side, meh... I wouldn't care either way. I did build a pair to Blue Stripe specs, which I prefer - that is if your going for that early transistor sound, you might as well go all out. That to me is the sound of all these boxes anyhow

How are the Blue Stripe clones? I found a guy who is buying the kits, building them, and selling them on ebay. I'm really wanting to pull the trigger!

JROD

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by jcc449

See?
Exactly why I said this topic will has no useful conclusion!
With this "ranges" of difference in music taste, there will be no common.

You said you love Nickelback and you loathe Radiohead.

I just... well... I just wanted to see what happened if I typed that.

Nope.

I haven't burst into flames yet.

Huh.

Interesting.

- c

[Overdrive]

I have in my rack both 1176E next to a 1176 re-issue next to MC77. For me the UA re issue is boring sounding but I keep it to remind me of my past mistakes. The Rev E 1176 and the MC77 sound of the same nature, given the 1176 is years older and have that soften sound (old electronics). Now, the MC77 is a dependable quality build and repeatable sounding unit, fresh and ear pleasing.
I'll pick the MC77 day in day out over the other 2 on many applications.

[shrimpbait]

Lol @ Silver Sonya

[kats]

Originally Posted by jrod9900

How are the Blue Stripe clones? I found a guy who is buying the kits, building them, and selling them on ebay. I'm really wanting to pull the trigger!

JROD

A little more "transistory" than the UA or Purples - grittier. Just a little, but enough to make them more interesting than the UA versions for me. I just don't think 1176 are "good" sounding boxes, any of them. I think they are "cool" sounding boxes, kinda neat - so if I want that kind of thing, I prefer the one that has the most of it. The Blue stripe design has more of "it" - no question.