What are the best converters and why?

[redddog]

I have decided to go top end and I'm just curious what you think I should include on the list. Obviously, I don't want to get boned but if there's a reason for it, I'll spend the dough. So I guess price/performance matters in a way. Again though, if there's a good reason I'll dump the cake.

Thanks all

btw, I'm coming from the FF800.

[ImJohn]

[QUOTE=redddog]I have decided to go top end and I'm just curious what you think I should include on the list. Obviously, I don't want to get boned but if there's a reason for it, I'll spend the dough. So I guess price/performance matters in a way. Again though, if there's a good reason I'll dump the cake. [QUOTE]

Well, how much cake have you got to dump?

Basic questions are :

• what is your budget
• how many channels of AD and DA
• how good are your ears, monitors, room
• what kind of music will you be doing

Here are some of the usual suspects in alphebetical order :

• Apogee
• Lavry
• Mytek
• Prisim
• Weiss

I use Lavry Blue and think they are awesome. I've read that the Lavry Gold is even better and may be as good or better than anything out there. YMMV

Best of luck to you!

[raal]

this thread has some info http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=22089

[Psyko/Acoustics]

[QUOTE=ImJohn][QUOTE=redddog]I have decided to go top end and I'm just curious what you think I should include on the list. Obviously, I don't want to get boned but if there's a reason for it, I'll spend the dough. So I guess price/performance matters in a way. Again though, if there's a good reason I'll dump the cake.

Well, how much cake have you got to dump?

Basic questions are :

• what is your budget
• how many channels of AD and DA
• how good are your ears, monitors, room
• what kind of music will you be doing

Here are some of the usual suspects in alphebetical order :

• Apogee
• Mytek
• Lavry
• Prisim
• Weiss

I use Lavry Blue and think they are awesome. I've read that the Lavry Gold is even better and may be as good or better than anything out there. YMMV

Best of luck to you!

Additionally,

• RADAR
• Lynx
• Benchmark
• Cranesong HEDD

More?

If you spend more than $3000 on any of the above you'll probably be very happy.

[FS0420]

Heres some more stuff in alphabetical order:

Echo Audio Fire
RME ADI-8
Frontier Designs Tango24
Alesis AI3
E-MU
Motu well, nevermind motu
Digidesign.... (all except hd192)tutt
etc etc,

his question wasnt what are the brands in alphabetical order though....And he has a FF800
The higher quality converters use better converter chips. The converter chips are not the only factor in the quality of the converter. The clock design, power supply design and analog components, filters, contacts etc and quality control of the company have just as much to do with the factors of the conversion.
The fireface is brand new and should be one of RMEs best attempts at a converter, so if thats not good enough your right looking for the more expensive alternatives than the FF800. That unit is about as cheap as you can get and it shows.
That being said RME's clock design appears on paper to be perfect, but some say that other clocks are an improvement when the RME is slaved to them. Ive never made any comparisons between clocks though, and dont plan on doing so.

[FS0420]

while we are making an alphabetical list we should add the Behringer ada8000 right up near the Mytek on the list

[ImJohn]

Originally Posted by FS0420

while we are making an alphabetical list we should add the Behringer ada8000 right up near the Mytek on the list

Well, my initial response indicated that I felt the OP didn't give enough information to answer his questions (not that I'm really qualified anyway) but I thought by giving him a list of some mid to high end options, he could get started searching here and on Google. The reason for alphabetization is to not show preference over which brands I think are 'cooler' because I've only used Lavry in my list (and they ARE very cool). And yes, I fixed my mistake in ordering, thanks for pointing it out. fuuck

He had asked "I have decided to go top end" so . . . .why are you throwing up Alesis and Behringer etc?? Really, what's wrong with you?

[FS0420]

I think all the listed units are top end compared to the ff800 fuuck

[ImJohn]

Originally Posted by FS0420

I think all the listed units are top end compared to the ff800 fuuck

Do your parents know that you aren't on rec.audio.pro where you are supposed to be???

Back on topic for me, sorry everyone for the distraction!

[FS0420]

rec.audio.pro?
never heard of it. Just mainly this place where the computer mods give advice that is wrong and sometimes without reading posts.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Psyko/Acoustics

[*]Benchmark

Just the DAC-1, not the ADC-1 it's way too hyped in the top.

[SMT]

Just curious... How come so many dislike Motu?? Not that I have tried out a lot of converters, but I use my Motu 2408 mkII + 2 Ai3 and I´m really happy with the result....
Anyone??

[vocalworld]

When comparing converters of different brands there is the problem that often the comparison is concerning to converters of different chip technologies, especially different chip generations.

So, in my eyes one cannot compare a Motu 2408 MKII for example with a Mytek 8x192. Both converters are constructed with chipsets from different generations. In formers times I had Motu 2408 MKI and Motu 1224. I can compare both to a Apogee Rosetta 96K and Mytek 8x192. But as I have written above such a comparison is "illegal".

However when I though do such a comparison I can say:
The Motu 1224 sounds much more transparent than Motu 2408 MKI. With the Motu 1224 a could get great results although Rosetta and 8x192 are still more transparent sounding than Motu 1224. But the step from Motu 2408 MK I to Motu 1224 was much more impressive than the step from Motu 1224 to Rosetta or 8x192 (8x192 was combined with Lynx AES16). I have no experience with Motu 2408 in MKII version.

The main reason why I have sold my Motu 1224 and Motu 2408 was that I had much problems with the driver for windows XP. There were often digital clicks, especially when using Wavelab.

Generally one should compare the newer Motus which consists of chips for 192Khz with the Mytek 8x192 or other 192 KHz converters.

Mathias

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally Posted by FS0420

Digidesign.... (all except hd192)tutt

Yeah ... forget those 192 convertors ... they are the worst ever.

God knows what got into the heads of the people running these studios. I bet everything that gets recorded there really suks :

http://www.strongroom.com/

http://www.airstudios.com/technical/...oolsspec.shtml

http://www.galaxystudios.com/

http://realworldstudios.com/

http://www.oceanwayrecording.com/

[SMT]

Thanx, great answer.
I know that when I got my Motu 2408 mkII it didn´t work at all with my computer. I had a K8Vse Deluxe motherboard and the Motu just doesn´t accept the Via chipsets. So I had to change the motherboard. But when that was done, everything has worked superb and I have had absolutely no problems with it...

[redddog]

Hey Guys.

Sorry about the lack of info. I was thinking more of spurring a discussion about what the best converters are - not the best for me. You know? So I didn't think that my specific situation really mattered.

I'll give it to you though.

- Room is great. 9-11 ft ceilings. wood floor. properly treated and sounds great.
- Ears (well how do you answer this?) pretty good.
- music. anything from acoustic rock to jazz to electronica. So at least 8 if not 16 channels
- Budget. I will consider the very best as not too expensive. Again, I don't want to just throw money at the most expensive. I was more interested in what people consider the best. This is really the point of my question. Some people would say that the Aurora stuff is the best. And that's not the most expensive. Some people talk about Mytek or Lavry. Some wouldn't consider anything less than Weiss.

What say you?

BTW, I'm pretty sure Emu, Behringer, Alesis or Motu don't belong on the list.

Thanks all

[redddog]

Oh, and the fireface is actually really nice. I mean I like it but I'm trying to step up the studio to be competitive with the local best. I am very impressed with the fireface and I'm a little surprised to hear it get panned so hard here. I know it's not the best but I think it's pretty workable. I pretty much thought that the main issue with that unit has to do with the pres and that the conversion was fairly highly regarded. Just surprised, I guess. Either way, I'll keep the FF800 for a remote rig.

I forgot to mention that I monitor with the Dynaudio BM6a.

[FS0420]

Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts

Yeah ... forget those 192 convertors ... they are the worst ever.

God knows what got into the heads of the people running these studios. I bet everything that gets recorded there really suks :

http://www.strongroom.com/

http://www.airstudios.com/technical/...oolsspec.shtml

http://www.galaxystudios.com/

http://realworldstudios.com/

http://www.oceanwayrecording.com/

Sure wish I invested in the 888 or a 001,002 or any of the trash they made before the 192, so that I could get ripped off again when I needed to upgrade to a system that didnt suck
I also wish I invested all the money Ive spent so far on an HD core card I dont need along with the fastest mac ever built. That way one day I could afford the 192 and a few plug ins.

[Psyko/Acoustics]

Originally Posted by FS0420

while we are making an alphabetical list we should add the Behringer ada8000 right up near the Mytek on the list

Behringer? EMU?


Dear God...


BTW The FF800 is apparently NOT the best convertors RME has to offer, even though they are reputedly quite good.

OK, if we're gonna get all snobby and techie then lets make sure we discuss the analog stage that brings the signal in from your wires and delivers it to the convertors. For example, EMU's analog stage is not good. I shudder to think what the Behringer's is like.

To the original poster, there are so many factors affecting the quality of a convertor that I'm don't completely have my mind wrapped around it. Check out Bob Katz's website digido.com and read his discussions of digital audio. There's a lot there to help clarify how fidelity is acheived in the digital domain.

What chips are good and why is another topic, and I haven't got anything to contribute on that. All I know is Asahi Kasei chips are used by RME, Apogee, Digidesign (some products) and MOTU.

[Psyko/Acoustics]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Just the DAC-1, not the ADC-1 it's way too hyped in the top.

Thanks for the tip.

I haven't heard most of these... I'm merely enumerating those I've read about on here and other pages that have received respectful reviews.

[AdamJay]

I think unless you want to spend $6k-$7k and above, you can't beat the Lynx Aurora 16.

$3k and sounds as good, if not better (hey, its subjective) than converters with the same features running $6k. Next logical step up from there would probably be a pair of Mytek 8x192's.

I don't think i've ever heard anyone dispute the Lynx Aurora 16's price/performance ratio. It simply sounds like a converter worth much more than its sold for. It really throws off the curve for converters between $3k and $6k for 16 channels i/o.

and let's not forget the usual disclaimers that are required in a converters thread
YMMV, use YOUR ears, its a game of inches, blah blah blah

[redddog]

Adamjay,

That's exaxtly what I was thinking. It seems like the Price/Performance ratio is better with the Lynx than anything. I don't have to list the most expensive converters on my gear list, I just want some very good conversion. Thanks man. I think I'll go with that and be done with it.

[KingDaddyO]

reddog,

Ditto on the Lynx. While I haven't used the Aurora personally, I have used their LynxONE products a lot and can tell you that the drivers have got to be some of the most rock solid Windows drivers ever written. AdamJay is right on as far as price/performance. I can't think of many/any other cost effective options which can compete with 16 Lynx channels in this price range. They also have great tech support & cust svc, and repairs (when necessary, which is rare) are very affordable. I blew one of the channels one of my boards and they only charged $60 to repair it.

So I say you have a pretty good track record to give them a shot for your business.

As always of course, YMMV...

[Capstan Cappy]

no motu?? what's the general opnion of motu converters?

[redddog]

To put it nicely, Motu, as I understand, is not in the same league.

[Recording David]

Originally Posted by Capstan Cappy

no motu?? what's the general opnion of motu converters?

The original poster said he was willing to spend serious money to get good converters, which basically means outboard converters. MOTU converters are not good. They are woolly, jittery and unfocused.

[007]

I have heard that the UA 2192 is the sleeper of AD/DA units, I just thought I would throw that one in the discussion. I never used it, nor have ever used any great converters but it is apparently a great sounding unit, albeit a bit pricey. Anyone use it?

[raal]

i'm curious as to how the apogee 16X series compares to the 'best' (lavry gold, weiss, dcs, prism AD-2 -- also hedd 192, UA 2192, etc.). there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus. for example i've heard lavry blue are not as good as 16X and vice versa. has anyone here actually compared some of the above to 16X?

these are all obviously very good, but which could be considered the best (truest to original source)? pacific microsonics is way up there but they're no longer made.

maybe a grading system would be helpful.

[el cochino]

I've never heard them, but those are definitely the most interesting looking converters I've ever seen:

Altmann Creation ADC

and

Altmann Attraction DAC

[GYang]

Originally Posted by raal

i'm curious as to how the apogee 16X series compares to the 'best' (lavry gold, weiss, dcs, prism AD-2 -- also hedd 192, UA 2192, etc.)..

16Xs are my working horses.
They do 95% of job and no sonical complaint about them.
Lavry Blue does better on some acoustic tracks (so I keep it for that)

BUT

for AD conversion of final mix I rent the best what I can find and in order of preference:

-DCS (it just offers some hyperrealistic magic, not necessary for tracking, but awesome for final mix)
-Weiss - IMO the most neutral conversion available
-Lavry Gold - similar to Weiss, some like to push it hard

Everything else what I heard (incl. Prism) is not worth premium price over already excellent Apogee, HEDD, Lavry Blue or Lynx.
And it's more question of taste.