Build me a Studio (Console, gear)

[doulos30]

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[Adkins]

I do a lot of stereo recordings, and interested in stereo recording techniques.
Since you have a 'teaching studio' with a tracking room, I'm sure you will plan to teach the 'stereo recording techniques' as well.
I'd definitely suggest a stereo pair of Schoeps CMC6 or DPA 3511.
A stereo preamp to match can be the Millennia HV-3C, very fast and attractive.
If you want a 'heaven in a pocket' solution, then I would strongly suggest the QES Labs SMP-2.
I reviewed it here. Some clips here.
A DPA or Schoeps stereo set + smp-2 is something to seriously consider.

[psycho_monkey]

Firstly, well done on looking at a "proper" console. I've done guest lectures at several universities, and rarely are studios set up like this. Converters and control surfaces are all well and good, but proper signal flow needs to be learnt at some point!

Secondly, for a purchase of this size, with so much potential to go wrong, I'd hire a studio consultant - and an unbiased one at that (ie not a sales rep).

I'm guessing you're wanting new gear (education usually does), minimal maintenance (nothing puts a damper on a uni studio than being out of action for months at a time) so whilst it's within budget, an older SSL is out.

Personally, I'd have thought an AWS SSL fits the bill perfectly - 24 channels, "industry standard" - both for teaching the students (if they can run one of these, they can do most of what a G does, minus the automation, plus they can get used to the "sound" of the EQs/dynamics), recall (for multiple student projects, changing over quickly - a Toft or similar won't have this), small footprint and power supply (no machine room required), minimal commissioning required.

Don't forget to budget for patchbay/looms etc (over your $500 I'd imagine!).

Aside from that, if you're training students to go into the industry, "industry standard" gear is what you should be focussing on. All very well having a stash of boutique and/or semi pro compressors/mic pres/mics if the students might then enter a commercial room having never seen or used an 87.

So that means:

Compressors: 1176/Distressor/SSL G-series comp/API etc.

EQs - GML/Massive Passive + whatever else.

Mics - U87s, Sennheiser 421s, AKG 451s, maybe a nice valve mic for vocals. Maybe a pair of ribbons (Coles ideally). + the education to teach the students to treat these with care.

Decent monitoring also - "studio" monitors worthy of a 150k studio will be more than $500, so no worries there.

Some moveable gobo screens (also likely to be more than $500 for a reasonable number) are essential in a large studio room.

Were someone doing this for you as a commercial project, they could get you proper quotes (as an education client, you'd get a sizeable discount I'd think) from a music retailer. Otherwise, you're guessing to a large extent.

Mac with PT HDX is the way to go for sure. Also it's a no-brainer to install logic (for the writers amongst your students).

Did I mention hire a professional consultant?

[roy_mattie]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Did I mention hire a professional consultant?

+1000

No disrespect intended to the OP... Don't screw this cool opportunity up by not allowing a professional consultant to help you design a work environment that will stand the test of time.

Else your just using someone else's money to speculate what you think will work.

I've seen this approach especially in church circles, where every Joe, Dick & Harry 'recommends' a certain setup or piece of gear, assuring the church that this will address existing issues in their current setup. In the end, that church ends up with 10-15 yrs of miscellaneous pieces of gear that don't all work together, that could have been resolved with a couple of key pieces designed with purpose. AND the trust is destroyed with the people that have already spent the $$.

A lot of people mean well, but it REALLY helps to have an outside professional come in to look at your setup objectively, and work within your budget, and ask questions that you may not have considered. This should be someone that doesn't sell the gear themselves that they would benefit from by selling it to you, but rather a consultant that is paid for their time & design.

My 2-cents.

[ShadowAMD]

It seems a lot of places I have gone to do various teachings have an SSL duality.. It's great.

+1 on getting a professional contractor / consultant in for a bit

[stevieotomy]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Firstly, well done on looking at a "proper" console. I've done guest lectures at several universities, and rarely are studios set up like this.

....


Mac with PT HDX is the way to go for sure. Also it's a no-brainer to install logic (for the writers amongst your students).

Did I mention hire a professional consultant?

Well, consultant is a different budget, one we'll not be able to do.

After much research, here's what I'm requesting:

12 core mac, bells whistles
PT HDX w 16 analog I/O
SSL AWS924
Patchbay/Cabling (custom)
Genelec 8030 (not positive on the number - replacing the 1032a)
10 slot 500 series rack (API pre, comp, eq, Great River pre, EQ, Neve pre)
U87
MD421 and 441U
C451
Coles 4038
(we have some other good LDC and SDC, a ribbon, a tube, some other pres, comps and eqs, etc. that have been collected over the years).
1176, Manley - I forget now (my colleague added these) but basically some of the "standard" pre, comp, eq, etc. boxes that we don't already have.

They told me this is a "special" budget and the "over 500" thing might not apply so I added mic stands (some good booms, etc.) cables, etc.

First, I'll need to see if the request goes through - if it does, I can fine tune later.

Thanks,
Steve

[Convectuoso]

Instead of the HD I/O I'd go with a Symphony with 2 16 I/O Modules. 32 I/O's will cover a lot of bases and will sound marginally better than the Avid interface. Get the Symphony card and you're set.

Remember you don't have to use HDX/TDM anymore, you can just go fully native and still have PTHD software.

[projektk]

Originally Posted by Convectuoso

Instead of the HD I/O I'd go with a Symphony with 2 16 I/O Modules. 32 I/O's will cover a lot of bases and will sound marginally better than the Avid interface. Get the Symphony card and you're set.

Remember you don't have to use HDX/TDM anymore, you can just go fully native and still have PTHD software.

Honestly neither sounds better and to say it does it just crazy. They have their own characteristics but it really comes down to preference. For education, I'd keep things as industry standard as possible.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz App

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Convectuoso

Instead of the HD I/O I'd go with a Symphony with 2 16 I/O Modules. 32 I/O's will cover a lot of bases and will sound marginally better than the Avid interface. Get the Symphony card and you're set.

Remember you don't have to use HDX/TDM anymore, you can just go fully native and still have PTHD software.

I wouldn't. For an installation like this, I'd want avid support and an approved system. Especially if you're basing it round PT.

[dbjp]

I'd get an extra Avid I/O to demonstrate hardware insert in both the analog domain and digital domain.
24 (or more) i/o with the console, some spare AD/DA i/o for the odd comps/eqs/effects for direct DAW inserts.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by stevieotomy

Well, consultant is a different budget, one we'll not be able to do.

After much research, here's what I'm requesting:

12 core mac, bells whistles

We have yet to max out a 4-core mac with PT native (meaning that the Xeon processors are doing the heavy lifting). If you want to be really conservative, get a 6-core mac with the fast 1600MHz memory (32GB). The money you save vs. the 12-core will buy you a nice microphone.

PT HDX w 16 analog I/O

If you have a console, you can do latency-free monitoring with PT Native. We have PT Native + consoles, and again, it gets the job done at the highest level. If we had no console, then HDX would be the ticket, but with a console, you can again shift more of your budget into analog audio equipment.

Now, as a teaching institution, you might be buying HDX so you can advertise "We teach HDX" instead of saying merely "We teach the latest ProTools". That's a marketing question...but know that if you choose HDX over Native, you are making a marketing investment, not a functional one.

SSL AWS924

If you take the advice above, you might be able to step up your console to the next level. Might that be more worthwhile (from both a marketing and a teaching perspective)? Dunno, but I believe that the more console you can put in front of your students, the better.

Patchbay/Cabling (custom)

When you get a real console, you get a patchbay with it. Still have to buy the cables...

Genelec 8030 (not positive on the number - replacing the 1032a)

This is the one thing you don't want to buy ahead of time, but rather evaluate in the room. Elsewhere I have posted about my experience in doing monitor shootouts, and after that experience, I'm convinced that the marriage of a room and a set of monitors should be based on the true love they share for each other, not some prior arrangement between possibly well-meaning families.

10 slot 500 series rack (API pre, comp, eq, Great River pre, EQ, Neve pre)

500 series slots are free in the API 1608 ;-)

U87
MD421 and 441U
C451
Coles 4038
(we have some other good LDC and SDC, a ribbon, a tube, some other pres, comps and eqs, etc. that have been collected over the years).
1176, Manley - I forget now (my colleague added these) but basically some of the "standard" pre, comp, eq, etc. boxes that we don't already have.

Agree with others that you *need* at least a pair of DPAs, perhaps a pair of omnis and a pair of cardiods.

Don't forget gobos!

[brew]

With an analog console, you need more IO than you have channels, because you need to record the mix bus and any other busses for stems, and you might also want to use plug-ins as send FX. So if you're monitoring a mix from the DAW that's two stems, you only get 12 channel inputs to your console!

Patchbay is a must for teaching.

I just saw your gear list and I think it looks good. Kids will probably break ribbons, however. If you can spring for the 948, do, because then your students get true inline workflow experience.

Don't forget you will need many headphones and at least a DA for them, if not a full cue mix system.

[soundgear]

Originally Posted by stevieotomy

But, any advice you guys can give would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve

It sounds like your running the show there but maybe a little new?
In my opinion high end gear is all great from my limited experience .
If I was you I would stick to the name brands NEVE SSL API things like that.
Students will want to see those big brands and use them to.
I would get a list of what you think you want then run it by the shop you plan to make your purchases at. MAKE SURE YOU GET A HUGE DISCOUNT FOR THAT MONEY.
As far as consoles go . I wouldn't get anything old as somebody above already suggested . A old console will sound great assuming its all functioning properly but at a school where young adults are more or less playing on it 24/7 you might want to consider something new or newer. Techs to fix old consoles are very expensive and some parts may be hard to find and will take awhile to get . In a situation like yours you need your console working all the time every day so new with warranty and a full life ahead of it is a good idea I would think. If you do absolutely need a console how do the newer SSL 900s or API 1604 . The SSL comes in 32ch and the 1604 is only 16ch but can be expanded to 32ch. I realize not a mega console at all but unless you want a Duallity what really is a mega console these days.
DAW DAW DAW DAW DAW thats what studio,s are all about now.
But I will admit your program might be a hard/er sell if you don't have a 48 or bigger SSL Neve. Sometimes it really is about keeping up with the Jones,s
Its your decision consoles are cool the students will enjoy them,there not necessary at all these days but its a stroke against if you don't have one.

[joeq]

Everything I buy must be at least $500. So I can't buy cables, mic stands, monitor speakers, external drives, effects, etc. unless they're 500 or more.

sometimes you can get a cooperative vendor to help you work around these bureaucratic idiocies. Once, we bought a computer from the 'supplies' budget. In a mirror image of your situation, nothing could be OVER $200, so the vendor billed us separately for a hard drive, a keyboard, a monitor, an OS, a power supply, a CD drive, and the CPU.

Perhaps you can get vendor to bill you for a "cable pack", that includes all the cables you need, etc. You could get some Latch Lake mic stands!

you will get plenty of advice on gear for building a studio

I would offer some suggestions on building a studio classroom

The seats for the 'observing' students should be in a steeply raked "grandstand" - the people watching should be above the heads of the people at the board, so they can see what knobs they are touching. The back row should be really high up.

For monitors, far or mid-fields are preferable to near-fields so that everyone can hear as well as see. Remember that the 'first reflection points' for people in the back means that almost the entire side wall needs treatment

Budget in a very large flat-screen, or a projector, so that even the people in the very back can follow the DAW action.

A wireless mic for the instructor that goes into a channel in the console and reinforces his voice through the monitors. 18 students may not seem like a lot, but it is enough for you to need to 'raise your voice' - which can be exhausting after a couple of hours.


And if it were me setting up a new room, I would put a substantial portion of the money into a Faraday cage for the entire classroom area, as IMO, the addiction to digital distractions is the single greatest obstacle to education today.

I wish I was joking.

[PDC]

If the OP is a teacher...how did you land this gig without proper working experience to draw from, to build the suitable place to work? Just wondering. This is what is wrong with education as a whole. Those who can't, teach...sometimes.