for spoken word: Brauner Phantera vs. U87ai

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by VO Boy

any other Phanthera owners out there?

Here! And it gets regular use with singers. Especially the good ones love it!

Used it once for VO, but the producer found it to be too spectacular sounding for the project.

The Neumanns (103 & 193), and Gefell UM70 (can be surprisingly flattering!) seem to be more popular / familiar / forgiving / malleable.
Dynamics like the RE20 and MD441 can work very well, too.

Beyer 740/840 also see a lot of use on Swiss national TV, wish I had one. Practically no sibillance.

[VO Boy]

I think I'm just gonna bust it open for an 87ai. I was hoping to maybe not max out the budget but I'll just do it and be done

thnx everybody!

[VO Boy]

okay, am I going crazy? Went to a studio today and I think I like me better on a TLM 103
than an 87ai (they had both) i'm serious though, I liked the 103 better than most of the LDCs i've tried.

dazed and confused

[Earcatcher]

Originally Posted by VO Boy

okay, am I going crazy? Went to a studio today and I think I like me better on a TLM 103
than an 87ai (they had both) i'm serious though, I liked the 103 better than most of the LDCs i've tried.

dazed and confused

You should know by now that price of a mic has nothing to do with how well it will work on a specific voice. Anyway, I still recommend going out and listening to a Brauner Valvet X. Not the Valvet! Valvet X is a specific voice mic with transparent golden highs and lovely transformer tone in the lower octaves. (Not that you couldn't use it for instrument micing, but it is specially tuned for voices.) It is very far away from U87 (fortunately).

[WunderBro Flo]

The tlm103 is brighter than the u87 but I have made the experience that a u87 with the right eq boost sounds better than the tlm103 with its built in brightness. As I said before: The u87 needs more work than other mics, If you are not willing to do that work you are better off with a different mic.
It is not too difficult these days to work the U87 though...try the mäag EQ (plugin or hardware) set to 40kHz cranked up to 3 o clock or more: BAAAM!

[Magucci]

+1 on the Maag AIR band.
It's truly amazing!!!

[VO Boy]

is it possible that the TLM 103 would be better at not picking up room/booth ambience? I'm in a small booth. Well-treated with plenty of rockwool panels but at the end of the day, still a small booth..

[VO Boy]

okay, I just tried the 87ai with a LA610 pre.....wow with the right setting
(heavy on the tubes low on the output) and a little high pass it sounded pretty sweet

the time before the 610 was much higher on the output and it made the 87 harsh. hmmm

[Rob Ellis]

hey VO Boy FWIW I have found that speaking slightly (just slightly) off-axis works best for the U87, as opposed to speaking directly into the capsule.

Speaking directly into the capsule of the 87=harsh and clacky
Speaking slightly off-axis=warmer, fuller less harsh

[Dayo]

Originally Posted by Rob Ellis

hey VO Boy FWIW I have found that speaking slightly (just slightly) off-axis works best for the U87, as opposed to speaking directly into the capsule.

Speaking directly into the capsule of the 87=harsh and clacky
Speaking slightly off-axis=warmer, fuller less harsh

Agreed Rob

[VO Boy]

okay, got the 87ai....not to be ungrateful, but man for the $$$$ itz a bit underwhelming

I may keep it, but.....can any slutz recommend another condenser that would still have cred in the voiceover world and that may flatter my voice a little more (lower baritone). Man, I even like how I sound on a TLM 103 better.....or does the 87ai just take a little getting used to???

[WunderBro Flo]

again, as everybody told you: the 87 does not sound "finished" on voiceover out of the box. try these usual suspects: dip 200Hz and/or 500Hz and/or 2kHz. Boost highs, for example a bell at 10-12kHz often works well, so does the maag airband at 40kHz or a massive passive bell boost at 16 or 27kHz.
Lots of options. Boosting low bass often improves things as well, try adding some around 60Hz while cutting 200Hz.
Sometimes it works to just dip around 500Hz by 3-4 dB with a very wide Q and boost the overall volume as makeup.
Get familiar with those spots if you want to keep using the 87. If you want a mic to sound finished out of the preamp, look elsewhere. Or buy a pre with eq and always use "your" settings when recording with the 87.
Or cut one resistor on the electronics to open up the hf filter network.

[NormDark]

Originally Posted by VO Boy

okay, got the 87ai....not to be ungrateful, but man for the $$$$ itz a bit underwhelming

I may keep it, but.....can any slutz recommend another condenser that would still have cred in the voiceover world and that may flatter my voice a little more (lower baritone). Man, I even like how I sound on a TLM 103 better.....or does the 87ai just take a little getting used to???

How does this clip sound compared to what you're hearing from yours? I saved this from a guy who posted this sample a while back on a VO board, and I always thought it sounded pretty good on the different monitors I've listened on.

Also, have you seen this? A nice little test of some of the heavy-weights.
Manley Reference Microphones - Tube Mic Voiceover Test - YouTube
.

[Earcatcher]

Originally Posted by VO Boy

okay, got the 87ai....not to be ungrateful, but man for the $$$$ itz a bit underwhelming

I may keep it, but.....can any slutz recommend another condenser that would still have cred in the voiceover world and that may flatter my voice a little more (lower baritone). Man, I even like how I sound on a TLM 103 better.....or does the 87ai just take a little getting used to???

Did you follow the advice I gave you in post #35 of this thread?

for spoken word: Brauner Phantera vs. U87ai

In addition I would highly recommend testing Violet Design The Amethyst Vintage and The Globe Vintage. Don't be fooled by the "vintage" part of the names. They are just great sounding mics for VO. Very quiet too. The Amethyst jumps forward in an authoritative way but still sounds very natural (good for short clips), while the Globe is much more laid back and flattering (better suited for commentary kind of work). You can have both for the price of one U87ai, while you will get infinitely better results.

I don't know if a mic needs cred in the VO world. All I have to do is give my clients the right sound for the purpose. They never ask what mic I used. (I am not a VO-artist myself, but I do direct and record VO quite regularly for instruction videos, movies, documentaries and so on.)

[Dayo]

I'd give Earcatcher's thoughts some respect.

Also a massive +1000 for the Valvet X on v/o - STUNNING!

[VO Boy]

Originally Posted by NormDark

How does this clip sound compared to what you're hearing from yours? I saved this from a guy who posted this sample a while back on a VO board, and I always thought it sounded pretty good on the different monitors I've listened on.

Also, have you seen this? A nice little test of some of the heavy-weights.
Manley Reference Microphones - Tube Mic Voiceover Test - YouTube
.

that does sound pretty good...I'm using a 610 Solo for the ai...wunder if
something like the GAP would be better for the 87....?

[NormDark]

Originally Posted by VO Boy

that does sound pretty good...I'm using a 610 Solo for the ai...wunder if
something like the GAP would be better for the 87....?

I don't know enough about your pre to really say, but I don't really see why the GAP would make too much of a difference. I have the MKII version of it, which I like and think it's really good for the price tag, but I wouldn't call it a great pre. I know it took that guy in the sound clip quite awhile to get his room right before he got the final product sounding good.

I haven't heard tons of examples of the 87, but most of what I have heard sounds pretty good on spoken word. HOWEVER, you could probably do better for less $$.

[E.rOk.stA]

I own both mics the OP mentioned and my voice is baritone. Phanthera gets way more use for vox in my studio. I have all ranges of rappers as well as male and female gospel singers and the Brauner is almost always the winner. It's very honest and detailed.

As for your Solo610, I would try to run the input (gain) as low as possible and compensate with the output (level), even if that means crankin' it all the way. I'm not a fan of 610 tube saturation on vox. I would also keep it in Hi-Z and lo-cut filter on. That will allow the cleanest takes so you can really hear your mic.

The cleanest setting on the 610 is still pretty colored so don't worry, it won't sound sterile. I would actually recommend a tube swap. A NOS RCA clear top long plate or Telefunken (12AX7 is the kind you need) would really give your pre a more open high end as well as low end harmonics.

[SoZo]

Brauner Phantom Classic-L FET Microphone - YouTube

[VO Boy]

As for your Solo610, I would try to run the input (gain) as low as possible and compensate with the output (level), even if that means crankin' it all the way. I'm not a fan of 610 tube saturation on vox. I would also keep it in Hi-Z and lo-cut filter on. That will allow the cleanest takes so you can really hear your mic.

thnx good suggestion. I tried using a 1/4 inch converter to run the mic in High Z, but get no signal. Isn't High Z for instruments mainly?

Brauner Phantom Classic-L FET Microphone - YouTube

I'm somewhat familiar with the Phantom, but isn't it considered to be kind of a bright mic (even overly so maybe, I dunno?)

[Fireplace]

Originally Posted by WunderBro Flo

again, as everybody told you: the 87 does not sound "finished" on voiceover out of the box. try these usual suspects: dip 200Hz and/or 500Hz and/or 2kHz. Boost highs, for example a bell at 10-12kHz often works well, so does the maag airband at 40kHz or a massive passive bell boost at 16 or 27kHz.
Lots of options. Boosting low bass often improves things as well, try adding some around 60Hz while cutting 200Hz.
Sometimes it works to just dip around 500Hz by 3-4 dB with a very wide Q and boost the overall volume as makeup.
Get familiar with those spots if you want to keep using the 87. If you want a mic to sound finished out of the preamp, look elsewhere. Or buy a pre with eq and always use "your" settings when recording with the 87.
Or cut one resistor on the electronics to open up the hf filter network.