Low end studio aspiring to become high end

[Rick Sutton]

If you want to step up to the plate......then do it.
If you want to play in the high end pool you have to understand the type of client that is looking for a premium service.
Giving away free mix time is a signal to your prospective clients that you aren't really that good at what you do.
it's basic. Respect yourself and your time and the clients will be more likely to respect you and pay you for your time.

I won't even comment on what advertising on Craigslist says about your business. Doesn't exactly shout high end.

[rollsrock25]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

If you want to step up to the plate......then do it.
If you want to play in the high end pool you have to understand the type of client that is looking for a premium service.
Giving away free mix time is a signal to your prospective clients that you aren't really that good at what you do.
it's basic. Respect yourself and your time and the clients will be more likely to respect you and pay you for your time.

I won't even comment on what advertising on Craigslist says about your business. Doesn't exactly shout high end.

Thanks for your response, Rick...it's much appreciated. I have heard this advice before, but I guess what I'm asking is the specifics of the part where you say "...then do it".

Maybe you can help me out in regards to taking on the next step. Basically, you're saying start charging $40 an hour and also charge for mixing...and stop advertising on craigslist. I feel that anyone that would be okay with recording in a small residential studio wouldn't pay those rates if they could go to the commercial studio that's been in business for 25 years for a little more, know what I mean?

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by rollsrock25

Thanks for your response, Rick...it's much appreciated. I have heard this advice before, but I guess what I'm asking is the specifics of the part where you say "...then do it".

Maybe you can help me out in regards to taking on the next step. Basically, you're saying start charging $40 an hour and also charge for mixing...and stop advertising on craigslist. I feel that anyone that would be okay with recording in a small residential studio wouldn't pay those rates if they could go to the commercial studio that's been in business for 25 years for a little more, know what I mean?

Where did I say to charge $40 an hour? Please don't put words in my mouth..........often there isn't any extra room as my foot is sometimes in there.
What I'm saying is if you really want to step up start charging for your time. It's very simple. You are currently trying to appeal to low end clients with your apologetic attitude. Be good at what you do and don't give your mixing time away. That sends a very bad signal to the type of client (clients that expect to pay good money for quality work) that you may very well be good enough to serve.
Going high end is as much attitude (and of course performance) as it is gear and a big studio space. Not a snotty, egotistical attitude (I'm not talking about you here!) but a confident, caring and professional attitude that the better calibre of client will respond to. It's a people business and you have to work at cultivating the right clients.
They don't look for studios in Craigslist.
It's not easy but it starts with the right attitude and some time.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by rollsrock25

The reason I don't charge much is because I feel that I need an edge over studio's that provide commercial locations and more expensive equipment. Most studio's charge for mix time, and I don't--which I feel is a way for me to get new clients.

Originally Posted by rollsrock25

I feel like I'm doing the right things, but advertising on craigslist is only getting me so far.

Hey, I don't have any life shattering advice for ya, but I will comment on a couple of the things you shared above.

First, undercharging to undercut other studios is a PROVEN way to go out of business. What your'e doing is creating the image that you're not worth the money. If your clients REALLY believe that you are doing as great as you SAY they say you are doing, they will pay more. The reason they are not? You're undermining your credibility. I know, this seems like a catch-22, but you MUST find a way to stop doing that. I wish I could tell you how. I know some guys who just doubled their rates in hopes of getting LESS work, and they actually end up MORE popular. Image. Image, Image. You are NOT selling studio time, gear or location. You're selling YOU. You must find a pathway for yourself that allows you to charge more, and give your clients better service.

Second, be very careful about advertising on craigs list. The results are often catastrophic, and sometimes life threatening. I know MANY studio's that have made careers out of advertising to the bottom of the barrel who have eventually been robbed, and one who was even tied up at gunpoint. beaten and robbed. He immediately moved his studio OUT of his residence in fear of his family's saftey. CL is the bottom of the barrel. Do you really want to go there?

Just a FYI, I mostly don't work with outside clients anymore unless I know them or have a longstanding relationship. I'm too busy with my own stuff. BUT, I will tell you that when I DO work for others, I give the studio time away for FREE. HOWEVER, I charge dearly for MYSELF. Whether Im at my own studio (free) or their studio, its the same rate. IMO, in this market it's almost impossible to sell studio time. Sell experience. Get your happy and satisfied clients to tell their friends about YOU - NOT your studio. Maybe give them a free day of recording for every new client they refer who books at least 20 hours. Hey, why not. Its not LOWERING your price which again, is ANTI productive to where you want to be.

Success is being known as the guy who charges an arm and a leg and is SO WORTH IT that it takes months just to get a booking with him. You knwo the kind - where musicians tremble at the thought of even asking to book. That's where you need to head towards. What you are doing is going the opposite direction. It will probably take time, and you may have to endure slow times, but use your time wisely to set things up so that you can offer BETTER service than before.

Good luck. I wouldn't want to be starting out in this climate.

Cheers,

bp

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by rollsrock25

But why haven't they? It's definitely not me, because every customer that comes in rants and raves about their experience. People seem to really like working with me. And I love working with them.

Well, if your work is good and people are recommending you, then you are doing the most important thing already - building a reputation and a client base. Satisfied customers and word of mouth are the very best ways to succeed as an independent studio business. It just takes time to get momentum so you can invest in more gear and impress even more people. It's a gradual process and a balancing act; you don't want to go buy a bunch of high end gear on credit and bury yourself in debt, but you always want to be improving your set up and your skills. A decent website is a must, and meeting people in person can be a big plus. Go to the shows of the bands you record, meet the other bands on the tickets and all of their friends. It's fun.

Good advice already in this thread. Don't undervalue yourself, but don't make too sudden a change in policy or you risk losing your existing clients. Gradual change.

IMO Craigslist is safe enough if you're careful. Thugs are easy enough to spot. But the best clients come from elsewhere.

[rollsrock25]

Awesome answer. Words can't describe how much I really do appreciate all of the advice. Here's one last question for you...

A guy comes in to record, but he's unprepared. After 15 punch-in's, I ask him if he's rehearsed (and the answer is obviously no). Now, do I keep recording him because it's good for business? Or do I tell him to call back when he's ready because I don't want to put out a crap product that people will base their opinions on and not record here because of it.

The answer to this (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that they are both equally important and if I know I can't fix it in the mix, have them rehearse more. I've asked folks to leave after they are more prepared (and to my surprise) they normally call back and book time and surprise me with a much more polished performance.

And I guess all of this great advice could be summed up as sort of a push-pull business mechanism that involves charging more to get better equipment, and after I've gotten more experienced with the Avalons and Neumanns I hope to have in a few more years, then charge accordingly...

For now, I have to make due with the virtual 1176's...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by rollsrock25

A guy comes in to record, but he's unprepared. After 15 punch-in's, I ask him if he's rehearsed (and the answer is obviously no). Now, do I keep recording him because it's good for business? Or do I tell him to call back when he's ready because I don't want to put out a crap product that people will base their opinions on and not record here because of it.

You already know the answer. Which one makes you look like a superior engineer, someone that people would PAY to hang out and make music with, and someone they would recommend?

[rollsrock25]

Originally Posted by drBill

You already know the answer. Which one makes you look like a superior engineer, someone that people would PAY to hang out and make music with, and someone they would recommend?

Love it

[Aaron Miller]

Lotta good advice here. Consider doing an informal market analysis, starting by asking: Is there a *high end* market (defined as people w/ need, means and willingness to pay to have that need satisfied)? If not, what is the market? How is the market need being satisfied currently (if at all)? What is your competition doing to satisfy the need? What is your unique competency and how can you leverage it to satisfy a market need? How do you make people aware that you can meet their needs with your core competency and how do you convince them that it's worth going to you?

Best of luck!

[suzzymackenzie]

Hi there. It sounds like you really have potential. Let me add a more general idea to your thinking.

You are wanting to expand a business, or formally start a de facto small business. Have you investigated some local training or business mentor program aimed at encouraging start-up businesses? It's possible you could benefit from thinking about it generally as a business as well as specifically as a music studio business. How to manage cash flow, how to market, how to manage growth....

I think a lot can be gained from looking outside your industry to the experience of startups and mentors from a variety of other enterprises. Everyone has suppliers, customers, assets, investment needs, business propositions to state, business plans to make, new markets to develop, competition to face. I went on a business enterprise training course when I was setting up my own research firm, and I was struck by many of the ideas of fellow starters - someone who wanted to sell scooters, a specialist food importer, someone who wanted to be a kind of uber-window-cleaner (what will your USP be? "I'm gonna be the window cleaner who actually comes back!")

Hope this may help, and wish you success!

[Fletcher]

As has been pointed out by many... you bill cheap - you live with clients that don't respect quality, they only respect cheap. If you do quality work and charge for the time you will find that the quantity of bookings will drop off... that's not a bad thing.

When you don't have a booking you put your engineering hat on the shelf and put on your marketing hat. Get your ass out on the street with some business cards and make some musician friends. You can even invite them by for a "test session" [let's see if we get along]... release no product to them at the end of that "test session"... and make it known that if they like the work they're welcome to purchase the product [make this abundantly clear UP FRONT... if you tell them this after the fact you'll look like a huckster dooshbaag (pardon the Gearslutz spelling)]... further to that, if they book the rest of the album with you [50% up front deposit] you'll throw in the test session for free.

Make sure your place is neat, and tidy, and has fresh paint on the walls. While it helps if it sounds good [as in you'll get a shit load more work as your product will hit the street sounding better]... it also has to look good. Make sure the bathrooms are clean!!! Make sure there is no "clutter" in the control room. At the start of every day clean your control room and your main room like you were preparing for a photo shoot for the cover of MIX [hmmm, might this be where an assistant could come in handy? ...nah].

You need to be professional in EVERYTHING you do... and while you don't need to be a prick about charging for every second... you can't take any shit about the billing either. This is the bill - its fair - pay it or you don't get so much as a rough mix... and yes, you need to be somewhat hardass on that one --- simple explanation: "gee, I got beat by some guys a while ago... and while I know you wouldn't do something like that to me, I'm afraid I just had to make it a rule I can't break" [check out the movie "Boogie Nights" for details].

No "Craigs1ist" advertising -- ever. Word on the street... which means you have to get the word onto the street... which means you need to know EVERYBODY in the local music community... and more importantly, they have to know you. When you have a band in... schedule some breaks... but rather than hang with the band, check your voicemail and return calls promptly. Care about your clients... give them a call from time to time to see how they're doing [nothing more, nothing less]... remind them you're alive.

Kill yourself like this 90-110 hours a week and you'll start to get some kind of reputation in a few years... putting ads on Craigs1ist and waiting for the phone to ring? Suicide... the long, slow, depressing kind.

Rick Sutton has been riding in this rodeo for a while... his words are spot on. Dr. Bill has some rather sage advice [hey, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and again]... listen to their words... then work your balls off.

Peace

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Make sure your place is neat, and tidy .... Make sure the bathrooms are clean!!! Make sure there is no "clutter" in the control room.

Uh oh, looks like I'm in deep trouble!

[ddageek]

Hard part is changing from a budget image ,to a highend image. Your probably going to lose clients along the way.
While working out of a home can keep costs down, check your local zoneing, and building and fire codes (as well as your insurance policies, sorry all that equipment wasnt covered)
As far as your unprepared guy if he learns from the experiance of paying for booked time because of his stupidity and it feeds your family/


































9

[rollsrock25]

Thanks again everyone. I am making revisions to my current website, and I'll be marketing pretty hard over the next few weeks. My motivation is there and has always been, but I could always use guidance on where and how to apply it. With all of this advice it should be much easier now that I have a clearer direction.

Feel free for any additional comments. I read them all sometimes twice, three times.

[Fletcher]

In today's environment - where the majority of the "acts" seem to care less and less about quality and more and more about LOUD product... this could be difficult... but... back in the days when I was managing a studio, every time bookings got up to about 75-80% occupancy [understand I was running a commercial facility, I based my occupancy level on the sale of 140 hours in a week to be 100% booked], I would raise the hourly rate $10/hr. and the day rate $150/day [the studio's day rate -- called a "lockout" rate as the client had 24 hr. access to the room] was based on 15 hr.s of regularly billable time at the regular studio rate.

If I had all "album projects" then the room was billing 15 hours a day 7 days a week - which was 75% occupancy. Most of the time I preferred to try to book the room to a "day session" which ran 10a - 6p and then a "night session" which which would run from 7p to as late as 9a. Very few "night sessions" ever ended before 5am as our engineering staff was a pack of drunkards and the bar down the street opened at 5 am every day... hence the sessions would [pretty much as a rule] run until at least 5a [and we could bill like 18-19-20 hours that day].

As you're looking at running a "one man shop" you should decide what your personal limit is for working... 100 hours a week, 120 hours a week... 32 hours a week... then you can build your own "75-80% occupancy" number, and build your business from there.

Best of luck mate... you're gonna need it [as it seems that damn near any moron with a credit limit thinks they can sachet their ass to the local guitar store, buy a DAW, 4 Chinese mics and a pair of speakers then hang out a shingle... and be Al Schmitt. The competition has never been rougher!!].

Peace

[rollsrock25]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Best of luck mate... you're gonna need it [as it seems that damn near any moron with a credit limit thinks they can sachet their ass to the local guitar store, buy a DAW, 4 Chinese mics and a pair of speakers then hang out a shingle... and be Al Schmitt. The competition has never been rougher!!].

Peace

I wonder, is it wise to market to folks that are okay with that sort of standard?

"Hey, I heard your recordings. Wonderful material, but the quality needs work! Come record at my studio, and I'll make you sound GREAT!!"

[phatbeatstudio]

Originally Posted by rollsrock25

Awesome answer. Words can't describe how much I really do appreciate all of the advice. Here's one last question for you...

A guy comes in to record, but he's unprepared. After 15 punch-in's, I ask him if he's rehearsed (and the answer is obviously no). Now, do I keep recording him because it's good for business? Or do I tell him to call back when he's ready because I don't want to put out a crap product that people will base their opinions on and not record here because of it.

The answer to this (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that they are both equally important and if I know I can't fix it in the mix, have them rehearse more. I've asked folks to leave after they are more prepared (and to my surprise) they normally call back and book time and surprise me with a much more polished performance.

And I guess all of this great advice could be summed up as sort of a push-pull business mechanism that involves charging more to get better equipment, and after I've gotten more experienced with the Avalons and Neumanns I hope to have in a few more years, then charge accordingly...

For now, I have to make due with the virtual 1176's...

I have had lot of similar experience owning a old studio of that caliber. The answer is KEPP RECORDING . But ask if he needs a few passes to work things out. If someone is in your studio and they can't play a part well there is a really good chance they are playing there part as well as they can . ITS JUST THEY CANT REALLY PLAY!!!! There is a big gap in talent from the early nineties to now as compared to musicians before that. If you suggest what there doing isn't good enough to use that is a HUGE insult. You will probably lose your client. Evaluate the talent to get what is THERE BEST not yours. They pay,d you for said time if they are not up to the task that is not your fault. BUT mention near the end when tracking is almost done for everyone that if there are parts they would like to redo now is the time. There bandmates heard him suck and will more than likely pay to redo his parts if he did just have a off day. Sometimes it is good to have a few members come in . LIKE A BACK UP GOALIE. If somebody's off that day well track the other guitar player or bassist instead. They pay for being unskilled and not properly prepared not you. Your job is to coax the best performance you can with the talent THEY bring.

If you are nervous and emit the energy they can't play well they won't. You have to stroke the ego sometimes. Keep it upbeat and fun and try your very best to have fun with them . THEY WILL PLAY ALOT BETTER and pay more to

[TeamContra]

Good post, I sure am Taking in all of this! One thing I started doing is when a band wants to record, I'll go watch a show or practice of theirs. If I hear they suck or need work I'll tell them up front to polish up. One thing I do is offer one free recording of a song to the most hyped up artist locally here. Once their music flys around I get tons of inquires! GL man best of luck!

[u b k]

Originally Posted by rollsrock25

But why haven't they? It's definitely not me...

Of course it's you... what else can it be? If it's the Cleveland economy, if it's the competition, if it's the state of the industry, then you're screwed because you can't control or influence any of those things.

So it comes back to you because it has to. You are the be all and end all of your business, and you have to get crystal clear on what you're selling. Are you selling recording time? An experience? A finished product?

Answer: none of the above. You're selling yourself, and what you do and how you do it are subsets of that.

When you get your head around that, you might start to think about how to present your business differently, how to present your *self* differently. It's not the recordings, it's your ability to craft the recording. It's not the studio, it's the vibe of working with you in the studio. It's not the gear, it's what you do with it.

Re-orient your thinking. And ditch the word 'marketing', marketing is what you do when you have something to market. Right now you're building the something that you'll someday market, and as you've noticed it happens veerrrryy slowly at first.

So far this year, I'm on track to make about 20k.

"Make" $20k, or "gross" $20k? Those are radically different concepts, and I'm seeing red flags because you're running a business but still talking like you're earning a wage. Consider boning up on small business managament and on modern marketing, so you can reframe your entire perspective on money, income, profit, cash flow, investment, and (just as important) marketing. Tons of books on the business stuff, but I recommend The Purple Cow as a primer for marketing in today's world.

Best of luck!


Gregory Scott - ubk

[rollsrock25]

Originally Posted by u b k

"Make" $20k, or "gross" $20k? Those are radically different concepts, and I'm seeing red flags because you're running a business but still talking like you're earning a wage. Consider boning up on small business managament and on modern marketing, so you can reframe your entire perspective on money, income, profit, cash flow, investment, and (just as important) marketing. Tons of books on the business stuff, but I recommend The Purple Cow as a primer for marketing in today's world.

Best of luck!


Gregory Scott - ubk

Well, I've only spent maybe 3k in equipment, so the rest I consider profit. Mostly all wages are earned in cash, but to answer your question it's before tax. If I report it all, (which I intend to as I did last year), then I know I'll owe and I'll be filling out another schedule C form. I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say I'm earning a wage, is that bad? I have to pay myself so I can pay my bills...

[rollsrock25]

Originally Posted by TeamContra

Good post, I sure am Taking in all of this! One thing I started doing is when a band wants to record, I'll go watch a show or practice of theirs. If I hear they suck or need work I'll tell them up front to polish up.

Good idea

[roy_mattie]

+100 for charging a fair rate, not advertising on CL, clean bathrooms, uncluttered control room, establishing a work schedule that doesn't kill you, good bookkeeping for your accounts....

My addition to this would be to educate yourself as much as possible in your downtime / free time about engineering AND producing. Sometimes the missing element in a session is someone giving clear musical direction. I would position yourself to eventually bill services as a producer / engineer with your own place with a realistic target date in mind.

And treat your clients well, and be gracious with their newbie questions or stupid remarks. That kind of stuff goes a long way to establish a good reputation. Don't bad mouth other studios / engineers / producers...always take the higher road.

Keep great records / logs on sales trends...which time of year is busiest, slowest, and try to plan as best as you can around those things. Ie. don't plan renovations during your busy times!

And don't get caught thinking that great gear makes you a great engineer / facility. It is and always has been the person using the gear.

Best of luck!

[Silvertone]

If you want to do this for yourself then I say go for it.

If you want to do this to make more money I'd say don't bother... no one cares now, they'll care less in the future about sound quality.

You'll probably make about the same amount of money keeping it low end.

Listen to the guys above... they've been around the block and in the trenches a long time... the golden days of "making a living" in this industry are pretty much over.

Good luck.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by Silvertone

If you want to do this to make more money I'd say don't bother....

I agree with Larry on this, but...

The first thing to know is that you cannot advertise yourself into popularity.

You will do the most for your business by networking, and that is hard because it takes you away from the business. But you need to be pressing the flesh, not hyping yourself, just letting people know that you are there, and letting them find out that they like you and would like to work with you.

You can also forge relationships that help... a friend of mine does recording work for a local publicly-owned station. Primarily aimed at a college and young adult aged client base, there are a lot of young alt bands involved. And he also has an involvement with some of the local jazz guys. These two relationships keeps him visible to two distinct client bases.

We had a good relationship with several corporations, and kept them happy by providing services to them and treating them differently (better) than the other local studios. We also had a relationship with a company that provided translations for corporate international sales materials, we recorded the translated audio for their sales videos. These types of mundane services can be quite lucrative, they keep better hours than bands, and are continually creating work, where bands might only do a recording every year or two.

The point being that there is more work out there than just recording bands.

So it is indeed possible to make a living, though it must be getting harder. The idea of waiting for a band to call your studio seems odd to me, and musicians don't seem to have a ton of loyalty... they may like your work, but the guy down the street is giving them free mastering, what will YOU do for them??? (Hint: I show them the door.)

Which brings us to rates. As others have said, chasing the bottom feeders buries you in the muck. Charge what you are worth. Charge what the similar studios in your area are charging. Don't screw yourself, people are lining up to do that already. The idea that you can start off with low rates and raise them as you go is not solid thinking. If I know you'll work for $5/hr, why would I ever pay you $10/hr?

[roy_mattie]

Originally Posted by Silvertone

If you want to do this for yourself then I say go for it.

If you want to do this to make more money I'd say don't bother... no one cares now, they'll care less in the future about sound quality.

You'll probably make about the same amount of money keeping it low end.

Listen to the guys above... they've been around the block and in the trenches a long time... the golden days of "making a living" in this industry are pretty much over.

Good luck.

Wow, that's quite a conclusion. I agree that if the OP's intent is to 'hit it big' as per the golden years, he'd most likely have a better shot at winning the lottery, and should try a different career.

However, it doesn't mean that he can't make a decent living striving to create and capture music in a way that works within his budget and at his location.

This is the unique 'standard' established in the music industry, which doesn't seem to translate to just about any other industry. 'Making it big' in the music industry seems to translate to international clients, worldwide tours, huge label projects, international sales, etc.

No one comes out of college with a diploma / degree thinking, "I'm going to be the best HR person in the world", or the "best IT person" in the world, or the "best doctor" in the whole world. Most college / university grad newbies come out from their programme with the intent of getting a good job, and making a decent income at a good company.

Why should music be any different? Why should one have to measure on a global scale in order to be considered successful?

I wear different hats to make a decent living... p/t at a local church, composing, producing, arranging, the occasional conference as a speaker...and I'm able to support my family of 5 with that one income. I work very hard, but I work smart.

Not ragging on anyone, just don't want to align myself with a defeatist perspective. People are ALWAYS going to be creating music. True, more and more people are trying to capture it themselves....Aaarg! However, there are still lots of opportunities for niche services. It may have to be a p/t job that you partner with an outside gig to pay the bills...and that's ok!

If we can strive to remove the fantasy of what we dream our lives to be, and are realistic with our industry and how it's changing, we can see things more clearly, and opportunities to be a part of.

My humble 2-cents.

[Trakworx]

I know lots of people (including myself, my friends, and several others posting in this thread if I'm not mistaken) who are making a living in the studio business. Sure, it's competitive and the market is changing, but if you can adapt to it there is potential for success. Due to technology there is more independent music being recorded in the world than ever before. Find a way to tap into that. Interface with home recordists instead of competing with them. I started my studio 17 years ago. Back then I was mostly recording bands. Gradually, as everybody and their mothers seemed to get DAWs on their freakin' PHONES, my business has largely morphed into one of mastering, mixing, and tracking rhythm sections - the three things that are hardest for home recordists to do for themselves, so I help them, thus making my living.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by roy_mattie

No one comes out of college with a diploma / degree thinking, "I'm going to be the best HR person in the world", or the "best IT person" in the world, or the "best doctor" in the whole world. Most college / university grad newbies come out from their programme with the intent of getting a good job, and making a decent income at a good company.

Why should music be any different?

Why should it be any different? I don't know. But I do know that it IS different. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it absolutely IS.

Almost all creative fields where you create an intangible "something" are "different" in the way you become a "professional" or earn $$$. There is no doubt that music and the art of creating it is about as "different" from going to college and getting a degree to be a nurse or CPA as you can get. My mother in law finally figured this out after I told her about 1000 times why I just didn't go out and get a "job" as a musician like all her friends sons who were cpa's, nurses, contractors, etc. did.

Why do you think so many people want to do it? Because it IS different. Embrace it. Think different.

[roy_mattie]

Originally Posted by drBill

Why should it be any different? I don't know. But I do know that it IS different. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it absolutely IS.

Almost all creative fields where you create an intangible "something" are "different" in the way you become a "professional" or earn $$$. There is no doubt that music and the art of creating it is about as "different" from going to college and getting a degree to be a nurse or CPA as you can get. My mother in law finally figured this out after I told her about 1000 times why I just didn't go out and get a "job" as a musician like all her friends sons who were cpa's, nurses, contractors, etc. did.

Why do you think so many people want to do it? Because it IS different. Embrace it. Think different.

I totally agree, we DO need to think different. But there are still some elements of HOW we do or think about stuff that translates across to any industry, creative or non-creative.

I believe that there is a pandemic of fantasy that often clouds people's judgement when thinking about getting into the music industry.

By fantasy, I mean that image that is burned into one's mind that is completely unrealistic, and not balanced with actual talent, resources, location, or life goals.

People are lead to believe that anyone that can sing really well should have a record selling millions across the world, or if you have preamp A or mic B or convertor C in a room that looks like D, you should be able to make lots of $$ making hi-quality records with big-name artists.

My point about the mentality of ppl coming out of college was meant to simply address reality. Of the ppl that go into music, either behind the console or behind the glass, a very VERY small percentage of those will ever hit those big opportunities. Of those, even fewer will be able to sustain that for a f/t career.

My post was meant to point out that there ARE opportunities within your sphere of influence to still make and record music, but to be realistic about it. F/t or p/t, we all need to work hard, and be honourable in how we do business.

I agree with you, Dr Bill! Just bringing clarity to the point I was making

[drBill]

Originally Posted by roy_mattie

I believe that there is a pandemic of fantasy that often clouds people's judgement when thinking about getting into the music industry.

Originally Posted by roy_mattie

By fantasy, I mean that image that is burned into one's mind that is completely unrealistic, and not balanced with actual talent, resources, location, or life goals.

Originally Posted by roy_mattie

People are lead to believe that anyone that can sing really well should have a record selling millions across the world, or if you have preamp A or mic B or convertor C in a room that looks like D, you should be able to make lots of $$ making hi-quality records with big-name artists.

Originally Posted by roy_mattie

Of the ppl that go into music, either behind the console or behind the glass, a very VERY small percentage of those will ever hit those big opportunities. Of those, even fewer will be able to sustain that for a f/t career.

Originally Posted by roy_mattie

My post was meant to point out that there ARE opportunities within your sphere of influence to still make and record music, but to be realistic about it. F/t or p/t, we all need to work hard, and be honourable in how we do business.

Originally Posted by roy_mattie

Just bringing clarity to the point I was making

Roy - All EXCELLENT points (especially the bolded one) that everyone starting out should read and take to heart. Maybe get tattoo'd on their forearm..... Well said.