Neumann u87ai recorded into Tascam 4 track

[rossnuk]

would be great to get some feedback please!

[Cathedral Guitar]

The vintage U87i does not need phantom power, as it also runs on 2x 22.5V batteries:

<http://www.batteries.com/505_R--200070.html>

It does sound great on voice + ac. guitar, but no experience on the Tascam unit, other that you will probably want to replace it shortly after getting a U87, since you will have a high-end mic into a low-end everything else.

[rossnuk]

Actually - I was thinking of an RME babyface card - would this pre amp be good enough for the u87?

[jmikeperkins]

You will notice a big difference in the sound of your vocals with a Neumann U87 compared to what you have now. The original non A model, with the place inside for the batteries, is slightly warmer sounding that the new Ai model but both are professional standard vocal mics. One of their greatest strengths is their ability to take even large amounts of eq and still sound good. They are not as bright sounding as a lot of modern condensers and that throws some people off, but that's what you have eq for and you will learn to appreciate their other qualities. They are SMOOTH, well balanced, and will make your recording sound like a record. The original U87 can run on batteries but they are hard to find and must be ordered from a specialty battery supply company. The newer Ai model will only run on phantom power. Phantom power supplies are cheap and I would get one of those. The U87 is more hit and miss when it comes to acoustic guitar. It may or may not sound better than your AKG mics on acoustics. Some acoustic guitars will sound great through a U87 and some will sound muddy and require eq to get a good sound. I have had better luck with smaller Neumanns like the KM74 and KM84 on acoustics but your mileage may vary. The U87 will sound better through a good mic pre and there are about 1,000 to chose from, but you can get a good sound from a U87 even using something cheap like the pres that come in a Mackie board. Every studio needs at least one U87.

[rossnuk]

Yeah thanks for that - i am actually considering a u89 now as well as a local shop is selling one second hand.

I feel the AKGs I have are too bright and don't sound very realistic on my acoustics - I use Gibsons by the way.

i wish to know though - If I bought say a used u87 and it needed work done to it such as a new capsule - how much would I be roughly shelling out to get it like new?

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by rossnuk

Hi, enjoying recording acoustic tracks - vocals to, using my old Tascam porta studio 424 mk3.

Currently using gemini mk2 mic for vox and akg c451b's for guitars.

I like the gemini on vocals but not so keen on sound of guitars with the akg's.

I am thinking of getting a Neumann u87i which should essentially cover both vocals and ac guitars.

I love the analogue sound - Gemini is poor on ac guitar though. Also, i use the budget beringer mic100 tube ultragain pre-amp which I know are not great.

Can anyone give me some ups if they think I should invest in the Neumann, and also a better pre-amp (I need one cos as you know there is no phantom power on these 4 tracks).

feedback appreciated.
Ross

Back about 25 years ago, I used to record with a a few different 4 track recorders....Portastudio with a little mixing board built in, another Tascam 4 track cassete that required an external mixing board, and a yamaha cassete with a little mixer built in.
The is no doubt that although the gear is low fi, at least by today's standards, there is a certain vibe that comes off those demo sounding recordings that is pretty cool.
If you are considering using higher end gear and Neuman U87 mics, I would suggest considering an upgrade to the recording medium.
I remember the jump from the Porta Studio quality to a Tascam 38 =1/2" reel to reel was a real nice upgrade. It still retain some of the demo type of vibe, but the final recordings sounds much more "studio quality" and less like a demo.
Best of luck Brotha.

[rossnuk]

yeah cheers - as I said in an earlier post - i am going to go digital and go for an RME babyface - my friend has one and will be trying his in around a weeks time.

My main dilemma right now is wondering about a used Neumann and the costs to consider on getting it done up if it needs it.

[RiF]

I'd watch out of a used U87 in mint condition. They seem to go for EUR 1500 (compared to 2300 new) on eBay.

[jmikeperkins]

A U89 is a nice mic but it is VERY different sounding than a U87 because it has a completely different capsule. The capsule in a U89 is smaller than the capsule in a U87 and the U89 capule is edge terminated where the U87 capsule is center terminated. U89's are somewhat popular for recording classical music because they have a very flat and unhyped frequency response. To a pop/rock engineer, a U89 can sound dull. A U87 is anything but flat and has a frequency response that is designed to flatter a voice, warm it up, and still make it cut through a mix. As great as a U87 is on vocals, they can be hit or miss on a Gibson acoustic guitar. I have several vintage Gibson acoustic guitars and I rarely use my U87's on those because they tend to sound a little muddy and require eq to sound good. On the Gibsons I use a Neumann KM74, a small diaphram mic.

[Ric4001]

You say you have a Gemini Mk2 (which I assume is the SE Electronics mic). I have a Gemini Mk1 and a U87ai and I think the mics are pretty close in sound. I'm not saying they sound identical, but I don't think a u87 is going to be much different from the Gemini you already have. Look at the frequency plots for these two mics on recordinghacks.com -- they are pretty much the same with the Gemini peaking at a little higher frequency. If you think the Gemini sounds poor on acoustic guitar, I don't think the u87 is going to sound much different to you. Maybe you should be looking for a mic with more of a midrange bump like a Shure KSM44 or Neumann TLM49. Personally, I would prefer the Gemini/u87 or 451 sound for acoustic guitar, but if that's not working for you, maybe your ears are looking to hear more of that midrange.

I don't have a u89, but I do have a TLM170 which is similar. I agree with comments from others that this mic will sound dark to you and is probably not what you're looking for.

[kipper]

k;ug;iug;

[kipper]

i would not worry about the mic , if i were you ' i would spend the money on a good recording medium. The gemini mk2 is a great mic and if your guitar is sounding poor through it ' i would suggest there is something not right with the guitar