Login / Register
 
innerTUBE Audio Vacuum Tube Up-Grade kit for Neumann u-87
New Reply
Subscribe
waldie wave
Thread Starter
#1
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,095

Thread Starter
waldie wave is offline
innerTUBE Audio Vacuum Tube Up-Grade kit for Neumann u-87

What is the verdict on this kit? Anyone using it? If so, how satisfactory do you find it? Is the price justified? What are the alternatives?
#2
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
  #2
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 10,479

Fletcher is offline
Its freakin' amazing!! Adds about 16 ft. of depth to any U-87 while remaining very clear, and VERY fast!!
__________________

CN Fletcher

Professional Affiliation:

R/E/P Professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums


mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid

Roscoe Ambel once said:
Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light
Quote
1
#3
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
  #3
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,500

dubrichie is offline
I have a matched pair of them in a matched pair of u87's.

I LOVE THEM. They sound incredible. Totally worth the money. I will never sell them.
__________________
Regards,

Richie.

"a paradigm of restraint and good taste at a time of frequent excess"
Quote
1
#4
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,217

vintagelove is offline
Also, you have not heard the mic unless it has a tele pcc88 tube. A close second is an amperex bugle boy. World class mic for sure.
#5
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 3,331

vincentvangogo is offline
How similar would people say this sounds to a 67?
#6
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,269

Rick Sutton is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubrichie View Post
I have a matched pair of them in a matched pair of u87's.

I LOVE THEM. They sound incredible. Totally worth the money. I will never sell them.
How did you resolve your headroom issues?

To the OP.......I've been using them for probably a decade and they are glorious.
#7
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #7
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 15,073

drBill is offline
Here's a question for the innertube owners/users n: are the equally glorious on newer vs older rev 87's?
#8
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,479

DarkSky Media is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
How similar would people say this sounds to a 67?
Not particularly similar at all.

It sounds open and has a sheen to it, without the thickness or mid forwardness of a U67. If anything, I'd say more like a 251, in general terms.
#9
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,269

Rick Sutton is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Here's a question for the innertube owners/users n: are the equally glorious on newer vs older rev 87's?
Honestly Bill, I don't know. Mine are old 87's.
#10
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,217

vintagelove is offline
I have not heard them side by side, however the circuit is the same. The only differences would be in the sound of the capsules.
#11
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,269

Rick Sutton is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill
Here's a question for the innertube owners/users n: are the equally glorious on newer vs older rev 87's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
I have not heard them side by side, however the circuit is the same. The only differences would be in the sound of the capsules.
From the Neumann site.

Electrical features
The letter A in the name indicates a more recent generation, as compared to the U 87 i microphones that were built from 1967 to 1986. Modifications apply to the electronic components of the microphone only; the capsule remained unchanged.

The present-day circuitry increases the operational headroom of the U 87 Ai by supplying the bias voltages for the capsule through a reduced resistance. The result is a higher sensitivity of 10 dB for identical sound pressure levels, and an improved S/N ratio of 3 dB.
#12
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 
SoundWeavers's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Makati, Phillippines
Posts: 876

SoundWeavers is offline
Are there any sound examples of u87ai before and after innertube audio mod?
#13
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #13
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: New Zealand/Switzerland/guitar case
Posts: 9,709

matt thomas is offline
I haven't used them, but I have considered them, when I was researching I found a few people saying they were quite noisy, but sounded great.

Are they noisy?

matt
#14
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,269

Rick Sutton is offline
#15
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #15
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 459

passmore is offline
how do you wreck a U87?
add an innertube downgrade.

and yes it will make your quite u87 noisy
Sorry Stayne stick to the Atomic Squeezbox
#16
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,217

vintagelove is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton View Post
From the Neumann site.

Electrical features
The letter A in the name indicates a more recent generation, as compared to the U 87 i microphones that were built from 1967 to 1986. Modifications apply to the electronic components of the microphone only; the capsule remained unchanged.

The present-day circuitry increases the operational headroom of the U 87 Ai by supplying the bias voltages for the capsule through a reduced resistance. The result is a higher sensitivity of 10 dB for identical sound pressure levels, and an improved S/N ratio of 3 dB.

To be clear I was referring to individual capsules. If your capsule sounds good, it will sound great through the tube insert. If it is a dog,.... I dont know.

Also if you use a high quality tube, it is not noisy. Akin to a vintage 414, maybe a touch noisier.
#17
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Nashville
Posts: 4,689

popmann is offline
Capsule makes a diff...AIs are less consistent so YMMV. Mine has.

Noise? it outputs almost line level...but, I never got any noise that bugged me...?

Not a 67. Neither a 251. It's more linear than either. It's like an 87 with the LPF removed...upper mids "tamed" without removing the Neumann middle...huge low mids pulled back to fairly linear...

I've used two...the old 87i Blackbird has with the mod is my fave mic on my voice. I told them to let me know if John wants to sell it. The AI they have? Ehh...improvement over stock, but not magic.
__________________
New singles available in all it's linear 88.2 glory:
Cogs In the Machine
Cliche
Older archives:
My work--now available in linear PCM for download!
#18
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,500

dubrichie is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton View Post
How did you resolve your headroom issues?

To the OP.......I've been using them for probably a decade and they are glorious.
The problem I was having with headroom was because I was not using them properly, because I did not receive the instruction leaflet when I purchased them.

Mine are the newer ai version and with these mics you have to set the pattern selection switch on the mic body to Figure-8 for the IT mod to function properly. I was completely unaware of this and as such had left these switches on Cardiod, so the IT circuit was compromised.

Once i flipped the switches, all my troubles were over.
#19
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,269

Rick Sutton is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubrichie View Post
The problem I was having with headroom was because I was not using them properly, because I did not receive the instruction leaflet when I purchased them.

Mine are the newer ai version and with these mics you have to set the pattern selection switch on the mic body to Figure-8 for the IT mod to function properly. I was completely unaware of this and as such had left these switches on Cardiod, so the IT circuit was compromised.

Once i flipped the switches, all my troubles were over.
Fantastic! Glad you got it sorted out.
#20
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #20
Gear addict
 
RFZ DUDE's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 374

RFZ DUDE is offline
love the innertube mod, would love to get a couple more 87s and use them exclusively with the IT mod - so bad that i only have a pair (Ai´s) and love them sooo much as they are.(yes the Ai).
actually didnt care too much for the 5 or 6 "vintage" 87s that i have had.those Ai´s are just the ticket for me.
#21
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,500

dubrichie is offline
I almost NEVER switch back to the original solid state electronics in my pair of ai's. Only for something like VO or spoken word or whatever, if I really have to, for the lower noise floor.

Or I could just use another mic, but, ya know, if they wanna see the 87, well give them the damn 87, valvefied or not.
#22
24th June 2012
Old 24th June 2012
  #22
Gear Head
 
jtea's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 62

jtea is offline
I just got my InnerTube mod kit and thought I'd document my comparison. The following is a down and dirty comparison of my 1971 U87 recorded as stock, with the InnerTube mod, and with the mod and a NOS Telefunken E88CC tube replacing the NOS CCCP tube that came with the kit.

This is a small piece of voiceover copy used for example only. I read it 3 times as closely as possible with each setup. The segment is short enough so that you can clearly hear the difference between the 3. I ran through a Shadow Hills GAMA preamp (Iron tranny), straight into an Avid MBox Pro.

The mic had the -10dB pad engaged on all 3 takes and the preamp was padded as well so I could crank up the pre, because that's how I like to use it. I tried to match the levels by ear, didn't really spend more than 10 seconds on it.
I found the results quite illuminating.

1) 1971 Neumann U87 (Stock)
2) Same U87 - InnerTube mod installed - NOS CCCP 6H23N (supplied w kit)
3) Same U87 - InnerTube mod installed - NOS Telefunken E88CC
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 U87 COMPARISON.mp3 (1.10 MB, 371 views)

Last edited by jtea; 24th June 2012 at 04:11 PM.. Reason: added more tech info on recording
#23
24th June 2012
Old 24th June 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Denny C's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Tucson, Az
Posts: 1,144

Denny C is offline
Nice a b c.
#24
12th July 2012
Old 12th July 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
jmikeperkins's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,214

jmikeperkins is offline
I just got Stayne's Innertube Audio U87 tube upgrade kit and Fletcher is correct, it's freakin' amazing. I put it in one of my 1970's U87's and it blew me away. It's really open sounding, alive, but also warm and the sound has a sort of tube complexity to it which is really nice. If you already own a U87, this is the cheapest and easiest way to get yourself a world class tube mic. I have the stock tube in mine and it's NOT noisy. Whatever tiny increase in the noise level you might get is more than offset by the woinderful tone that you get out of the tube 87. As someone else pointed out, the tube U87 does not sound like a U67, with it's network of filter circuits, but is great in its own way. The extended top and bottom reminds of a U77 but with a tube sounding mid range. I don't know why you would ever want to put the solid state electronics back in the mic, but it's great to have that option. I plan on buying a 2nd one for my other U87.
Baz
#25
12th July 2012
Old 12th July 2012
  #25
Baz
Lives for gear
 
Baz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 1,752

Baz is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtea View Post

The mic had the -10dB pad engaged on all 3 takes and the preamp was padded as well so I could crank up the pre, because that's how I like to use it.
I rarely use the -10db pad on my 76' U87. It really kills the detail and size of the mic I find. I can't explain it but mic Maestro, Klaus Heine, has made many references as to why it's pretty much a fail.
__________________
"Buy good tools, with track records, not GS flavor of the day, and there isn't anything you can't cut and have pride in. The flavor of the day will or won't prove itself over time." - Dan Kennedy 08.08'
#26
12th July 2012
Old 12th July 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
hasbeen's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: BOSTON
Posts: 2,537

hasbeen is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz View Post
I rarely use the -10db pad on my 76' U87. It really kills the detail and size of the mic I find. I can't explain it but mic Maestro, Klaus Heine, has made many references as to why it's pretty much a fail.

I have to agree with this. When I have used the pad it killed the beauty of the mic to my ears.

Mine is an old one too. It had the Gotham pads when I got it which have now been bypassed and 50 Ohm strapping which were changed to 200.

I would love to try the Innertube.
__________________
Forget It Jake, Its Gearsluts….
#27
12th July 2012
Old 12th July 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Canuk
Posts: 6,141

T_R_S is offline
Trumpets and other horn instruments will overload a U87 unless you use the 10dB pad - I tried the IT mod and it was not my cup of tea.
__________________
FB Page

==========

SURPLUS GEAR SALE
#28
12th July 2012
Old 12th July 2012
  #28
Gear maniac
 
Elof's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 280

Elof is offline
The k870/67 capsule sounds great without any filtering.
If I had an 87, I would definitely do this. The original is a bit honky to me.
However I´m happy with an sm69 fet, which also consist of the same capsules on an unfiltered circuit, doesn´t have the "tube glue" tho.
#29
12th July 2012
Old 12th July 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 
hasbeen's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: BOSTON
Posts: 2,537

hasbeen is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
Trumpets and other horn instruments will overload a U87 unless you use the 10dB pad - I tried the IT mod and it was not my cup of tea.
Good point, I should have stressed that using the pad on vocals is not as nice as without to my ears.
#30
12th July 2012
Old 12th July 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Rob Ellis's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008

Send a message via Skype™ to Rob Ellis
Rob Ellis is offline
the sound samples sound great, but to my ear it definitely sounds like the noise floor rises noticeably with the InnerTube samples.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Fletcher / So much gear, so little time!
22
SoniqKwality / High end
3

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.