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MattioliCo
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#1
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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To "V72" or not???

The Beatles were probably my first inspiration and I know the V72 was very much used on their recordings. Is it still being used a lot these days in modern rock? And in which applications?

Although we love the pres in our studio I've always had my eyes on the V72s.

The only tube pres we have are the 610s on the Fink CS2-FA which we love it. How do the 610 compare to the V72?

Any other Tube pres I should consider???

On our rack -

- DAV B.A.G
- Shadow Hills Mono Gama
- API 3124
- A Designs P1
- Great River 500NV
- Pair of Phoenix DRS-1
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#2
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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I've never used a V72 alongside a 610 and couldn't compare, but V72s still get a lot of love. They're great preamps.

How about a V76, which most feel is superior to the 72? Some swear that a V76 is the best preamp available.
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19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Aren't the V76s harder to find these days?
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19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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The Beatles really used V72S modules, which were a custom high gain version of the V72. The V76 is basically two V72 modules cascaded. It's my understanding that the V76 is actually closer to the V72S than a standard V72.

Anyway they're all similar circuits and use the same power specs and transformers (or did the V72S have custom 200 ohm output transformers to match the rest of EMI's gear? I'm not totally sure on that). I'm sure you'd be happy with any of them. They're all great units.
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19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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V72's modded are great. I'd go a V76 if it were me... that way they intergate perfectly the the U73 compressor.

That said... How about RCA BA21's or Langevin 5116B's or Electrodyne 201A or any old Western Electric pre-amps. More hits were recorded through these than any Beatles records. Wasn't it only their 1st album recorded though the V72's?

Now go listen to Nat King Cole, Frank Sinatra, Patsy Cline or the like to hear what the American equivalent sounded like... I personally prefer the sound of these old American tube pre's to the V72's. YMMV
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#6
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Other options for a tube pre that is similar to the V72 would be the Mercury m72s. You really can't go wrong. I like solid state units, as a general opinion, on things like kick, snare and acoustic guitar for how fast and 'right' they can be in dealing with transients to my ears, but this pre does just about any source justice. I would at least put it in the camp to be tried on kick alongside my Daking and Burl.
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#7
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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+1 Julian, I am enjoying mine.
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19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
V72's modded are great. I'd go a V76 if it were me... that way they intergate perfectly the the U73 compressor.

That said... How about RCA BA21's or Langevin 5116B's or Electrodyne 201A or any old Western Electric pre-amps. More hits were recorded through these than any Beatles records. Wasn't it only their 1st album recorded though the V72's?

Now go listen to Nat King Cole, Frank Sinatra, Patsy Cline or the like to hear what the American equivalent sounded like... I personally prefer the sound of these old American tube pre's to the V72's. YMMV
Hmmm interesting, I'm embarrassed to say I'm not familiar with none of those above lol Are they cards like the V72s? Do you need a rack with proper PSU rigth?
#9
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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hey. v72s are great! probable not for super punchy rock music. but if you like mellow and natural you will love them. i track most things just with these. btw... do not mod them! i had a friend with wagner modded v72s coming to my place a while ago. when we A/B 'ed my stock v72s with his modded version he decided to sell his. they just sounded akward. the magic was gone. for a few dbs....no thanks.
#10
20th May 2012
Old 20th May 2012
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For me tracking in a good room to a digital platform it is hard to beat either V72 or V76. I have tracked more then one project, though they tend to primarily be 'all acoustic' (DI on bass depending on room, content group, etc.), via V72s & V76s.

I do not have a lot of experience with 610s but initial reaction is that they are not particularly similar. For lack of a more accurately exhaustive comment I'd say 610s feel more 'brittle' (not calling 610s 'brittle' merely saying in memory comparison 610s tend more in that direction).

Even in less then stellar rooms I have found V72s to be very complimentary to a whole host of keyboards . . . swamp-honkytonk-to-classical piano . . . on more then one occasion (generally when piano was playing a supporting not featured roll) I hand a single ribbon on a baby Steinway (in a room I'd typically find to be to small for elegant piano) run it through a V72 . . . & sonically only need a single take, single pass. As 'arrangement' of the tune(s) evolved the original pass supplied all the information needed. (ribbon, V72 (for that piano) was kind of the equivalent of Glyn Johns approach to trap set recording)

As to V72 vs V76, can't comment on how 'Beatles' one is vs the other (& to tell you the truth it would be hard to care less) but as a more general purpose unit the V76 tends to edge the V72 (that said the all 'Vs' projects tended to be tracked with 6 V72s and 2 V76s). But (& this is the huge caveat) these things are old enough that almost none of them are pristine originals . . . how much any unit performs like it and/or its kin did in 1950s is an unanswerable question. They have all been modified in some way . . . auditioning a unit in your environment (& work flow) becomes important. That said you do seem to have enough other decent pre's that going for a pair of as close as possible 'un upgraded' V72s might be best compliment for what you have

good luck
#11
20th May 2012
Old 20th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattioliCo View Post
Hmmm interesting, I'm embarrassed to say I'm not familiar with none of those above lol Are they cards like the V72s? Do you need a rack with proper PSU rigth?
Ah, but you are... you probably heard more music tracked through this equipment than you even know. Any classic movie done in America... all the music for them were recorded through this type of gear.

Any Columbia 30th street recording (Time Out, Kind of Blue, Mingus, etc...).

Basically any recording before about 1965 was done though this type of equipment. You've heard it plenty and you continue to hear it... you just don't know it.

Here is a picture of one on my old tube console... yes they need to be racked and powered.
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#12
3rd June 2012
Old 3rd June 2012
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Silvertone,this is amazing!
#13
3rd June 2012
Old 3rd June 2012
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in my opinion you will get the closest to the Beatles sound if you go the DIY route, more specifically take a look at the Drip REDD.47 in combination with 1db of compression from the Drip Altec compressor.
enclosures for both projects you get for less than $90 from diy-racked.
the preamp as a whole will cost you less than $500.
unbeatable value for money.
knowledge on how to get along w/ a soldering iron is the only prerequisit and should be manageable as even i was able to do it.
do yourself a favour and go for it!
best wishes.

attachements:

REDD.47 pcb
http://dripelectronics.com/index.php...id=6&Itemid=33

Altec 436 pcb
http://dripelectronics.com/index.php...id=3&Itemid=29

unfortunately there is a problem on the diy-racked page, will forward the link later.
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#14
3rd June 2012
Old 3rd June 2012
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I liked enclosures form Grand Master audio..quite different league..
BTW I have REDD 47 preamp original
#15
4th June 2012
Old 4th June 2012
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Nothing but praise for the V72 from my side...

This is a really outstanding preamp in that the recordings sound very natural and alive, but with a nice weight and added to them.

However, you might very well be on the wrong path regarding the Beatles and their use of the V72(s).

The REDD.17 and REDD.37 consoles employed these modules, whereas their successor, the REDD.51, made use of British made line amps.
The Beatles worked with the REDD.37 (and respectively the V72) only until around 1964. Effectively this means that the lion's share of the Beatles' œuvre – and certainly the part that is the most innovative and that is widely considered as the best sounding – has not been recorded with the V72.

That does not mean that I wouldn't encourage you to try out this great sounding piece of recordong history. But it might actually have played a lesser role in this particular part of history than you seem to think...
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#16
30th June 2012
Old 30th June 2012
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V72 is my fav pre for ac gtr. Love it!
#17
2nd August 2012
Old 2nd August 2012
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V72's are great preamps. Trying to get the Beatles sound might involve finding songs and musicians that are "as good' as the Beatles.
#18
3rd August 2012
Old 3rd August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perky b View Post
V72's are great preamps. Trying to get the Beatles sound might involve finding songs and musicians that are "as good' as the Beatles.
The songs and the production values are the key. If they had settled for the first 20-30 takes, it might not have been that swell. George Martin and Geoff Emerick had a lot to do. The gear was great, the songs brilliant, and the production techniques timeless.
#19
8th April 2013
Old 8th April 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Ah, but you are... you probably heard more music tracked through this equipment than you even know. Any classic movie done in America... all the music for them were recorded through this type of gear.

Here is a picture of one on my old tube console... yes they need to be racked and powered.
This really is a thing of beauty. I just booked a wedding gig in Saratoga next May. What say I stop by with some badass soul musicians and we do some recording while I'm in the neighborhood? I have a B-3 player that will curl your toes up in your shoe.
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#20
12th April 2013
Old 12th April 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo_007 View Post
in my opinion you will get the closest to the Beatles sound if you go the DIY route, more specifically take a look at the Drip REDD.47 in combination with 1db of compression from the Drip Altec compressor.
enclosures for both projects you get for less than $90 from diy-racked.
the preamp as a whole will cost you less than $500.
unbeatable value for money.
knowledge on how to get along w/ a soldering iron is the only prerequisit and should be manageable as even i was able to do it.
do yourself a favour and go for it!
best wishes.

attachements:

REDD.47 pcb
http://dripelectronics.com/index.php...id=6&Itemid=33

Altec 436 pcb
http://dripelectronics.com/index.php...id=3&Itemid=29

unfortunately there is a problem on the diy-racked page, will forward the link later.
This is quite good advice

I have owned many v modules and as wonderful as they are they sure wont make you sound ANYTHING like the beatles.

Sad but true

Both pres are great but the v76 is without doubt the big daddy here .... V72 actually quite boring and has fixed gain...

The diy find a way is far more likely to find you your own audio satori

Also try searching TABLEBEAST on ebay

Good luck with your noble efforts



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#21
13th April 2013
Old 13th April 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brill bedroom View Post
This really is a thing of beauty. I just booked a wedding gig in Saratoga next May. What say I stop by with some badass soul musicians and we do some recording while I'm in the neighborhood? I have a B-3 player that will curl your toes up in your shoe.
Sounds good man. Just contact me and stop by for a hang even. I always keep my Leslie cabinet mic'd up with my M3.

I also always have some "inspiration" around for the band members that might need it to relax before a gig.

I see you are playing one of your gigs with John Brodeur down in Brooklyn, Johns an old friend and client... small world. He did a nice article on Silvertone for the Metroland magazine.
#22
24th June 2013
Old 24th June 2013
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i got hold of a couple of telefunken (not siemens) v72. i would like to modify them to V 72 s (studio) like the ones used in the REDD desk. i found schematics for the mod here> http://dripelectronics.com/sitedocs/...nual_part1.pdf (page 2).

now ive read here that those v72s are supposed to have higher gain but as far as i understand the mod it just allows for a broader frequency spectrum. am i right? also who has experience in modding a V72’s to V72s and didnt like the result?
#23
26th June 2013
Old 26th June 2013
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At my last studio, my partner and I had V72s and auditioned the UA 610 next to it. To me the 610 sounded lovely on vocals with a sweet top end and good detail while still having a tube character. We did buy one, thinking it would take over main vocal duty from the V72. However we kept on going back to the V72 as it always had a certain atmosphere and character. It really is a grower IMO in that you just like it more the more you use it. My old partner has his own place now and still has a 610. But he also has 3 V72s as well. And a pair of v372s. And a v672. I wish I did.
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#24
26th June 2013
Old 26th June 2013
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i have a telefunken v72 and 2 tab v72a and they sound awesome. certain voices sound better with the neve 1272 (most frequently male tenor voices with less bright) for all other voices the v72 is always the best. clean electric guitars sound great on it too but distorted guitars doesn't sound good on them. i really love my v72's.
#25
26th June 2013
Old 26th June 2013
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Love the Mercury M76m at our studio!
Amazing build quality and design.
It's becoming my favorite pre.
Sounds open, warm, natural.. Record-like.
With a couple of these and some Neve's, I guess I could have recorded anything that came my way.

A couple of Mercury M72s are also high on my wish list.
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#26
30th July 2013
Old 30th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Sounds good man. Just contact me and stop by for a hang even. I always keep my Leslie cabinet mic'd up with my M3.

I also always have some "inspiration" around for the band members that might need it to relax before a gig.

I see you are playing one of your gigs with John Brodeur down in Brooklyn, Johns an old friend and client... small world. He did a nice article on Silvertone for the Metroland magazine.

Hi there, did you guys end up catching up and hitting the record button? Hope so and if so, care to share? Sounds like fun!
#27
30th July 2013
Old 30th July 2013
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Hi there, did you guys end up catching up and hitting the record button? Hope so and if so, care to share? Sounds like fun!

No, I never did hear from Corin but I'm sure he just got too busy when he was up this way. I see he worked with Eddie Kramer, Eddie is an old friend as well so we have a few people we both know. Really is a small industry!
#28
31st July 2013
Old 31st July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post
Love the Mercury M76m at our studio!
Amazing build quality and design.
It's becoming my favorite pre.
Sounds open, warm, natural.. Record-like.
With a couple of these and some Neve's, I guess I could have recorded anything that came my way.

A couple of Mercury M72s are also high on my wish list.
Just used the Mercury M72s and the M76 on an album. Amazingly fat sound. The vocal chain together with the RETRO 176 blew me away.
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#29
31st July 2013
Old 31st July 2013
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Quote:
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Just used the Mercury M72s and the M76 on an album. Amazingly fat sound. The vocal chain together with the RETRO 176 blew me away.
Awesome!!! This is why that Mercury BRUDER (x1 m72 and x1 m76) is going to mythical!

Great hardware, all rolled up into a neat package.

I'm in love with the RETRO 176 for its super dense/thick sound! Its unreal!!
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#30
31st July 2013
Old 31st July 2013
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Ah, but you are... you probably heard more music tracked through this equipment than you even know. Any classic movie done in America... all the music for them were recorded through this type of gear.

Any Columbia 30th street recording (Time Out, Kind of Blue, Mingus, etc...).

Basically any recording before about 1965 was done though this type of equipment. You've heard it plenty and you continue to hear it... you just don't know it.

Here is a picture of one on my old tube console... yes they need to be racked and powered.
hello, does anyone know what pre/console colombia used around 1955 when miles recorded kind of blue there? i heard they used a presto tape machine. it was probably custom. not sure what they used as a "base/foundation pre" that they modified or if they designed them from scratch.
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