Adam, genelec, barefoot low end
#31
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
  #31
Pragmatic Snob
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonis2007 View Post
as much as i know adam did not gave to those customers new monitors (thats why i posted the thread - you can read it)

It's not actually Adam's job to supply anyone with new monitors, that's the job of the dealer that the customer bought the monitors from.

We're dealing with a traditional sales chain in this case: Adam sells to distributors, distributors sell to dealers, dealers sell to end users.

I know it's a bit counter-intuitive in the internet era where users are able to interface directly with manufacturers, but Adam's customers are Adam dealers, not Adam owners.

Dealers sell the product at a markup, so they make a profit, and in exchange their responsibility is to service and support the customers they make that profit off of. If manufacturers have to provide direct support to everyone that uses their wares, their support costs will skyrocket as will the associated infrastructure, and at that point it becomes unclear what exactly the dealer is there for other than to skim profit as a middleman who disappears the instant someone needs something.

So if Adam users are having issues with their speakers (and I confess I have zero personal knowledge about the situation you're referencing), their dealer should be bending over backwards to get them sorted because that's their job. If they do a crap job of it, then you know who *not* to buy from next time, and *that* is where the responsibility should be placed.

Admittedly, I've got my biases because I'm an end user of api, chandler, phoenix, burl, pelonis etc., but I'm also a manufacturer and I'm friends with many of the guys who run those companies. We're small boutique outfits so we can support our users more readily, but when you're a global juggernaut like Adam you have to rely on your dealers or you'll be snowed under just servicing your customers.


Gregory Scott - ubk
#32
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #32
Gear maniac
 

Sorry but I really disagree with you and the guys at ADAM USA were super cool and more than willing to take of my bad power switches on both of my ADAMS.

There is a reason companies have a phone number in the owners manual and on their websites.

I call UAD and Apogee and Adam and Euphonix,etc when I have issues with my gear.

I had a problem recently with my 2012 Harley and I called the dealer but the most important call was to HD Corporate.
#33
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Zep Dude's Avatar
 

I would definitely do a mix on each of your top contenders.

Listening to monitors can certainly tell you a something, but it won't tell you how you will interact with them, and that's the whole point.

You may be able to identify your likes and dislikes with passive listening, but those little "flaws" you hear might be what help you to get a better mix, and the strong points of another monitor might be your downfall when you mix with them.

A slightly loose bottom end might make you work a bit harder to tighten your mix, a full lower midrange might help you get those perfectly sculpted low mid mixes we love so much because anything that's slightly woofy stands out when you solo it.

All of the monitors you are considering will provide an incredible listening experience and will reveal a great amount of detail, but what you need is a tool that will interact with the way you hear things and provide the feedback you need to make a great mix. This may not be the monitor you think it is based on just listening.
#34
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #34
Lives for gear
Zep Dude speaks the truth. I disagree with just going to "listen" to monitors in a store even if it's well treated, as said above you only get a certain impression by listening and often people pick the monitor "which sounds the best" which is often a major flaw in picking a studio montior.

You need to test them in your space and work with them to really get a proper picture of what will work best for you.
#35
26th May 2012
Old 26th May 2012
  #35
i have no knowledge about the issue either - i do not use adam monitors. i am in deep love with a certain monitor company - i trust their engineering...end of story for me...

- but here is the issue with adam (and more): ADAM S3X-H owners: does yours rattle?

Gregory, it was adam's job to hire a cfd engineer who had the knowhow to create a monitor that does not rattle.

and i personally know large and small scale manufactures (and company owners, chief engineers...etc) who support their end clients !

and having experience from larger and more complex industries than the audio industry... i have the ability to respect and recognize responsibilities and which company conform with true engineering principles!

University engineering degrees help a lot on understanding engineering principles, ethics and marketing and at the same time be able to generate money.

as i said... for me rattling monitors are banned - if i do not behave like this... it wont be fair for other studio monitor manufactures !

-------- thats why i wrote about it ! it is about balance !

----- sort story - once i ordered one of the most expensive microphones on the planet - it took two years for my product to be according my spec - the manufacturer (via the dealer and the distributor) had my mic back TWICE!

--- another sort story - once i had a problem with a set of hiend studio monitors... i won't name the company but it is 3 bigger and 10x more technical than adam... you know what? not only the company solved my issue... but i also spoke directly with the company owner.

THATS hi end pro audio support.

-- i have another sort story - once i called a well known software company to tell them that i need to clarify hardware compatibility because i was working on a ("no one has ever done this before") hi-end project creating the most powerful DAW on the planet - and one of the replies was ( i will copy and paste it ): "I'd rather invest in a better coffee machine for the studio, than invest in..." - the software company had no idea of what i was talking about.

- the stories try to illustrate HUGE differences between companies.

- i hope that helps

p.s have you ever asked yourself why Europe is going down ? it only 2 every 10 companies that are true their customers and respect overall balance...and i am trying to be optimistic here...











Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
It's not actually Adam's job to supply anyone with new monitors, that's the job of the dealer that the customer bought the monitors from.

We're dealing with a traditional sales chain in this case: Adam sells to distributors, distributors sell to dealers, dealers sell to end users.

I know it's a bit counter-intuitive in the internet era where users are able to interface directly with manufacturers, but Adam's customers are Adam dealers, not Adam owners.

Dealers sell the product at a markup, so they make a profit, and in exchange their responsibility is to service and support the customers they make that profit off of. If manufacturers have to provide direct support to everyone that uses their wares, their support costs will skyrocket as will the associated infrastructure, and at that point it becomes unclear what exactly the dealer is there for other than to skim profit as a middleman who disappears the instant someone needs something.

So if Adam users are having issues with their speakers (and I confess I have zero personal knowledge about the situation you're referencing), their dealer should be bending over backwards to get them sorted because that's their job. If they do a crap job of it, then you know who *not* to buy from next time, and *that* is where the responsibility should be placed.

Admittedly, I've got my biases because I'm an end user of api, chandler, phoenix, burl, pelonis etc., but I'm also a manufacturer and I'm friends with many of the guys who run those companies. We're small boutique outfits so we can support our users more readily, but when you're a global juggernaut like Adam you have to rely on your dealers or you'll be snowed under just servicing your customers.


Gregory Scott - ubk
#36
26th May 2012
Old 26th May 2012
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Watersound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome View Post
I use a track off of James Taylor's Hourglass recording called Gaia to check speakers. There may be better choices, but for me this is a very detailed mix, with all elements present and nothing buried. The combo of Taylor's finger picking, the pads, the drums, the voices, the sax... things are very detailed. When the drum thunder/fill came in at the last verse there was no loss of low end for me. And the sound is nice and tight.
That whole album is a masterpiece - great referencing for sure
Sylvester217
Thread Starter
#37
26th June 2012
Old 26th June 2012
  #37
Gear & Hearhead
 

Thread Starter
a response refering to my original thread :

After having tested Barefoots MM27 and the Genelec 8260a extensively in my room I decided to cancel further tests of more contenders ( ATC, Adam ).
I simply felt that i won't be happy with any speaker delivering less low end than these 2.

I do mainly pop/top 40 oriented stuff with a lot of electronic elements, just 10-20 % more organic music with live recorded drums etc.
I arrange + produce and in most cases I mix later on ( maybe approx. 10% mix-only jobs ).
That means I need full control over the entire frequency range even at the beginning of the production ( e.g. selecting, layering and tuning kick drums etc.).

I know that there are people who can do this on smaller monitors ( even NS10s ) without exactly hearing what's going on - I can't...

Regarding my new speakers, I liked both Barefoots and Genelecs a lot, but in the end it was an easy decision.
I went for the Genelecs 8260a.
They simply worked better in my room, especially in the low end - tighter, more controlled, more detailed. After using the GLM correction software the difference was night and day...
The Barefoots sounded great but to my ears a bit more "hifi".
They have softer mids and a more "coloured" hi range, the Genelecs are
extremely linear, almost clinical, they have no "sound" at all.
The often quoted "genelec" sound is a total myth, at least regarding the 8260a.
( I was never a big Genelec fan. Like many others I worked on 1030s back in the 90's
and was happy to replace them with JBL's... )

I do agree that the Barefoots are "sexier" in sound and looks, but ( unfortunately?) I don't sell sex...
I rarely have clients here, most of the time I work on my own, it's all about translation and workflow for me.
In that regard I can truly say I have not worked on better speakers so far, including much bigger and more expensive ones !
For the short period of time I own the 8260a's now, my mixes have improved by 5-10% ( low end tightness, 3d-dept, sibilant control etc.) and I mix approx. twice as fast.
That's exactly what I was looking for.

I'd like to state that this is not a post against other speakers, I'm sure in that class they're all fantastic, each with their own strength...

To all GS's in the same boat, I can only repeat that it is inevitable to test new speakers in your room !
I didn't expect them to behave so differently, forget about specs...
In another room I probably would have chosen differently.

a happy Genelec 8260a owner
#38
27th June 2012
Old 27th June 2012
  #38
Pragmatic Snob
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvester217 View Post
... but ( unfortunately?) I don't sell sex...


Never give up hope!




Gregory Scott - ubk
#39
27th June 2012
Old 27th June 2012
  #39
Gear maniac
 
Mixing Suite's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm58 View Post
+1
(S3a in my case)

we have a pair of ns10 and they remind me that the adams have a dryness in the same direction like the ns10
Couldn't agree more with this.

S3XH's here.
Sylvester217
Thread Starter
#40
27th June 2012
Old 27th June 2012
  #40
Gear & Hearhead
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Never give up hope!




Gregory Scott - ubk
Yeah, if only girls were a bit gear sluttier, I'd get every one in the world with my new speakers :-)
#41
28th June 2012
Old 28th June 2012
  #41
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
ducter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveschizoid View Post
All ports resonate. That's what they do.

You can get around it by using a sub, but that approach has its own pitfalls. The MM27's are idiot proof in that regard.
Glad to see someone pointing out the drawbacks of ported designs.

And yes, sub-woofers has its problems as well, and the vast majority of them are ported designs, not a huge problem as their frequency bandwidth should be extremely limited.

Another vote for the Barefoot.
#42
28th June 2012
Old 28th June 2012
  #42
Lives for gear
 
cebolao's Avatar
 

8260 are ported, aren't they? There's a bass reflex on the rear side.
#43
29th June 2012
Old 29th June 2012
  #43
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
ducter's Avatar
 

Yep, they are.
It's on the back, at the top.
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