UM251c blackspade - anyone tried it??

[Blackspade Mike]

Hey AB3, we released 10 UM25C's last week as a limited first run,
with a few going out to their new homes this week.

Best shot for the moment is our dealers who might have had the time to try one out!
Maybe they'll chime in here.

Cheers,
Mike.

[AB3]

Hi Mike - I assume someone has compared this mike to a tele 251. What are the obvious differences in sound? Also, what tube is used in this first batch?
THANKS,
AB

[Blackspade Mike]

Sure thing, the whole design process was conducted side by side with an original. The objective answer to your question is that we built the mic to be as close as we could make it. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the $20K original, but we can confidently say that the performance is very close.

For the details, the capsule is a full on custom job we reworked with Tim Campbell (only available in the 25C), the transformer is a Hiller style T14, and the circuit is wired point-to-point and identical to the original except for a small mod to allow for the different tube.

The tube is a Telefunken NOS, picked to replace the 6072a. It's easier to find good sounding ones in volume, and cheaper to replace for our clients if it does go. Meaningful stocks of good sounding 6072a's to cover an entire mic production lifetime are becoming increasingly harder to find, so we thought we'd jump the gun and find a long term solution we could reliably count on. In our experience, this tube sounds as good, and very similar to what you'd expect from a 6072.

We're holding out on the model number of the tube for long enough to allow us to secure enough stock, and if anyone really feels that they're losing out by not having a 6072 in there – there's no reason anybody should – the mic can take a direct replacement. Just needs an adjustment to the filament voltage, as this Tele tube runs at a higher 14v. Leaving this option open was an important design criteria.

It's a broken record thing to say, but this one really does deserve a proper demo to see if it matches your expectations.

Mike.

[Johnkenn]

Get thee behind me Satan... you might separate money from my wallet.

Can you post pics of the NG power supply and the inside of the Tim Campbell? So the differences between the C and the standard are the PS and the capsule?

[warhead]

Hi John, actually the UM25C model has the Tim Campbell capsule, Gotham cable, Oliver's USA power supply, and a Rycote shockmount as differences / upgrades from the standard model.

Our reference recording session is going on as I type and I hope to have all uploaded by Friday this week. We have the UM17, UM17R, UM25 and UM25C all in a row to track one after the other.

War

[Johnkenn]

You get my PM, Warren?

[Blackspade Mike]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Can you post pics of the NG power supply and the inside of the Tim Campbell?

Hi John – here's the power supply, and the capsule is the same as above.

[geareyes]

Can you please elaborate on the "reworked" Tim Campbell capsule.

[Blackspade Mike]

Originally Posted by geareyes

Can you please elaborate on the "reworked" Tim Campbell capsule.

Tim builds the capsules for us from the ground up to specifically match the UM25C's amplifier and assembly. The changes are that it's tuned differently from his usual CT12 to get us closer to the 251 tone, coated with corona dope, and it comes with different screw holes for assembly.

[geareyes]

Thank you!

[superwack]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Get thee behind me Satan... you might separate money from my wallet.

+666

[jeremyglover]

Originally Posted by Blackspade Mike

coated with corona dope

i have no idea what that is but it sounds really good!

[Blackspade Mike]

Originally Posted by jeremyglover

i have no idea what that is but it sounds really good!

Here's a pic of the red dope coating on the capsule. It mainly helps insulate the capsule, to prevent condensation from getting in between the backplates.

[Cathedral Guitar]

Here are my ads for the UM25 and UM25C:

<http://www.ebay.com/itm/120897640567?>

<http://www.ebay.com/itm/120897675553?>

We're setting up a shootout at Wire Recording in Austin, TX with a vintage 251, the UM25, UM25C, and also a third UM25 with Klaus Heyne restored brass-ring AKG CK12s. I'll be sure to post samples so you can hear the differences.

Best,
Stephen

[AB3]

Nice info being presented. I hope it is a huge success.
Is the tele tube an ef800 ??

[RKrizman]

What's the difference between the 25 and 25C that accounts for the large price difference?

Btw, love the mp3s of the 25.

-R

[Cathedral Guitar]

The UM25C has the 1) custom Tim Campbell CT12 capsule, 2) an AMI USA-made power supply, 3) Rycote InVision shock mount, and 4) a Gotham Audio cable. S

[Blackspade Mike]

To clarify for anybody from Europe, the UM25's European edition comes with the Gotham cable and Rycote mount supplied as well. The only differences with the 25C are the CT12 and AMI power supply, with a smaller price difference between the two.

It's our way of negating the 20% cost increase due to VAT, that clients over here have to deal with.

Originally Posted by AB3

Nice info being presented. I hope it is a huge success.
Is the tele tube an ef800 ??

Thank you AB3! The tube has never been used in a production microphone before the UM25 series.

[geareyes]

Stephen,

Can you explain what a Klaus Heyne restored CK12 is?

Are you referring to orig AKG CK12s that have their original diaphragms and have simply been cleaned by Klaus? Or has he restored tension? Etc ...

Do these CK12's have clear backplates or red golden gate coloured backplates?

Thanks!

[Blackspade Mike]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Considering it's $700 extra, I emailed Tim Campbell to ask about the capsule and this was his reply...

"I have not affiliated with and have not heard any Blackspade microphones.
I'm as curious as you."

I'm confused...Makes me a little leery about the extra $800...

John, to clarify, Blackspade has no partnership or affiliation with Tim Campbell. Just like we don't have a partnership or affiliation with Mr. Thiersch (who's capsules we also use), and there should be no confusion about this point.

It would help if you showed us what your question to him was, and place it into context for all of us to understand.

We're also not charging $800 just for a capsule. You're skipping a $485 power supply, $120 shockmount and a $120 cable. Add $400 for the capsule to that total, and you get a clearer picture of what you're getting for the $800 difference.

Thanks,
Mike.

[James Lugo]

Wow this one of the stranger things I've read on GS. What's the deal with the capsule? Also I personally don't think Johnkenn was out of line or uncool at all. A guy has a right to research before spending money.

[Johnkenn]

I'm not up to anything...I was just trying to get clarification for an odd response that I received from Tim. In fact, I was - and still - considering purchasing - ask Warhead...I would have thought Tim would have an opinion on the mics considering this:

"For the details, the capsule is a full on custom job we reworked with Tim Campbell"
"Tim builds the capsules for us from the ground up to specifically match the UM25C's amplifier and assembly."



Hey Tim -
Considering this mic...does it have the same kind of woody mid-range of a
251? Just wondering if you consider it close.

Sent from my iPad

Dear John,
I have not affiliated with and have not heard any Blackspade microphones.
I'm as curious as you.

Kind regards,
Tim

[AB3]

It is a mistake to even hint at JohnKenn's integrity - he is about the best that can be found on this board.

I too thought that Tim Campbell specifically did something to this capsule for this mic in particular, which would mean there is a relationship.

At the same time, I bet this is a great mic at a great price.

But I do think it would be best to re-read the posts on this Board, and take back those items that are inaccurate. Perhaps it is a translation problem or something. I am trying to keep an open mind.

[Blackspade Mike]

Dear all,

For the sake of clarity on all of this, please refer to post number 7 in this thread.

AES Pictures

I hope that answers all of your questions, and explains why you'll need to excuse me for not being very receptive to certain assumptions.

Sincerely,
Mike.

[Johnkenn]

I'm trying to keep an open mind too. I deleted my initial response.

I demo'd one of the prototype (I think it was) UM25's - there's even a thread comparing it to the Miktek...And I REALLY liked it. I was hoping the 25C would be even better. I'm sure it is. There just seems to be some hyperbolic statements floating around.

Tim C. posted in another UM25 thread. Maybe he can come in here and clarify. If I've misconstrued anything, I sincerely apologize.

[Blackspade Mike]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

I'm trying to keep an open mind too. I deleted my initial response.

I demo'd one of the prototype (I think it was) UM25's - there's even a thread comparing it to the Miktek...And I REALLY liked it. I was hoping the 25C would be even better. I'm sure it is. There just seems to be some hyperbolic statements floating around.

Tim C. posted in another UM25 thread. Maybe he can come in here and clarify. If I've misconstrued anything, I sincerely apologize.

John, did you check the thread I posted above?

Placing any statement out of context like you did above creates confusion, and since we're only here to provide as much information as we can (not push nor pimp), we hope that people will be forthright with us, and ask us upfront if they have any doubts about anything instead.

We're only here to help, not to make up anybody's mind by influencing them with misinformation.

Sincerely,
Mike.

[Johnkenn]

Yes, I did. I see where Tim says he manufactures a capsule for Blackspade...

I don't think anyone was implying that he didn't make a capsule that you're using...it's the brevity and the oh-my-God-you-saw-the-dead-hooker-in-my-car-ishness of his reply that smells a little funny.

It's very possible that English is his second language or that he has a peculiar personality...but in this SUBJECTIVE business that sound is, we all want to know that we are getting what we pay for.

[James Lugo]

Originally Posted by Blackspade Mike

I think REX might be drunk too....

Mike as a moderator for gearslutz I will tell you comments like this to serious posts are only gonna make this thread and topic explode and not in a good way. I would tread easy.

James

[Blackspade Mike]

Originally Posted by yotonic

It's confusing when in your one post you said you were working with Tim on the capsule.

And in "your" following post you quickly say you have no affiliation with Tim.

Not sure what I'm missing too?

We all must be drunk

Tim is a capsule vendor. We're a microphone company that uses his capsules. Apart from this business relationship, we have no affiliation with Tim Campbell.

Maybe something is being lost in translation, as this business relationship maybe is an affiliation. If the confusion comes from there, my apologies. It seemed more suitable to post a thread with a statement by Tim himself, showing the two different capsules in pictures to clear any misunderstandings.

As said since the beginning, Tim Campbell builds this capsule to our specification for the UM25C. It is not his standard capsule, and is only available for the UM25C.

Hope that helps,
Mike.