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UM251c blackspade - anyone tried it??
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AB3
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#1
18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
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UM251c blackspade - anyone tried it??

This is the one with the Tim Campbell capsule. Has anyone tried it yet?
Comments?
THANKS.
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18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
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Hey AB3, we released 10 UM25C's last week as a limited first run,
with a few going out to their new homes this week.

Best shot for the moment is our dealers who might have had the time to try one out!
Maybe they'll chime in here.

Cheers,
Mike.
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18th April 2012
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Hi Mike - I assume someone has compared this mike to a tele 251. What are the obvious differences in sound? Also, what tube is used in this first batch?
THANKS,
AB
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18th April 2012
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Sure thing, the whole design process was conducted side by side with an original. The objective answer to your question is that we built the mic to be as close as we could make it. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the $20K original, but we can confidently say that the performance is very close.

For the details, the capsule is a full on custom job we reworked with Tim Campbell (only available in the 25C), the transformer is a Hiller style T14, and the circuit is wired point-to-point and identical to the original except for a small mod to allow for the different tube.

The tube is a Telefunken NOS, picked to replace the 6072a. It's easier to find good sounding ones in volume, and cheaper to replace for our clients if it does go. Meaningful stocks of good sounding 6072a's to cover an entire mic production lifetime are becoming increasingly harder to find, so we thought we'd jump the gun and find a long term solution we could reliably count on. In our experience, this tube sounds as good, and very similar to what you'd expect from a 6072.

We're holding out on the model number of the tube for long enough to allow us to secure enough stock, and if anyone really feels that they're losing out by not having a 6072 in there – there's no reason anybody should – the mic can take a direct replacement. Just needs an adjustment to the filament voltage, as this Tele tube runs at a higher 14v. Leaving this option open was an important design criteria.

It's a broken record thing to say, but this one really does deserve a proper demo to see if it matches your expectations.

Mike.
Attached Thumbnails
UM251c blackspade - anyone tried it??-25_251.jpg   UM251c blackspade - anyone tried it??-25c-capsule.jpg  
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Get thee behind me Satan... you might separate money from my wallet.

Can you post pics of the NG power supply and the inside of the Tim Campbell? So the differences between the C and the standard are the PS and the capsule?
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18th April 2012
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Hi John, actually the UM25C model has the Tim Campbell capsule, Gotham cable, Oliver's USA power supply, and a Rycote shockmount as differences / upgrades from the standard model.

Our reference recording session is going on as I type and I hope to have all uploaded by Friday this week. We have the UM17, UM17R, UM25 and UM25C all in a row to track one after the other.

War
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18th April 2012
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You get my PM, Warren?
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18th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Can you post pics of the NG power supply and the inside of the Tim Campbell?
Hi John – here's the power supply, and the capsule is the same as above.
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UM251c blackspade - anyone tried it??-um25c-psu.jpg  
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Can you please elaborate on the "reworked" Tim Campbell capsule.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geareyes View Post
Can you please elaborate on the "reworked" Tim Campbell capsule.
Tim builds the capsules for us from the ground up to specifically match the UM25C's amplifier and assembly. The changes are that it's tuned differently from his usual CT12 to get us closer to the 251 tone, coated with corona dope, and it comes with different screw holes for assembly.
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Thank you!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Get thee behind me Satan... you might separate money from my wallet.
+666
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18th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackspade Mike View Post
coated with corona dope
i have no idea what that is but it sounds really good!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyglover View Post
i have no idea what that is but it sounds really good!


Here's a pic of the red dope coating on the capsule. It mainly helps insulate the capsule, to prevent condensation from getting in between the backplates.
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UM251c blackspade - anyone tried it??-25c-capsule-side.jpg  
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AB3
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Nice info being presented. I hope it is a huge success.
Is the tele tube an ef800 ??
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What's the difference between the 25 and 25C that accounts for the large price difference?

Btw, love the mp3s of the 25.

-R
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18th April 2012
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To clarify for anybody from Europe, the UM25's European edition comes with the Gotham cable and Rycote mount supplied as well. The only differences with the 25C are the CT12 and AMI power supply, with a smaller price difference between the two.

It's our way of negating the 20% cost increase due to VAT, that clients over here have to deal with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 View Post
Nice info being presented. I hope it is a huge success.
Is the tele tube an ef800 ??
Thank you AB3! The tube has never been used in a production microphone before the UM25 series.
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18th April 2012
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Stephen,

Can you explain what a Klaus Heyne restored CK12 is?

Are you referring to orig AKG CK12s that have their original diaphragms and have simply been cleaned by Klaus? Or has he restored tension? Etc ...

Do these CK12's have clear backplates or red golden gate coloured backplates?

Thanks!
#21
19th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Considering it's $700 extra, I emailed Tim Campbell to ask about the capsule and this was his reply...

"I have not affiliated with and have not heard any Blackspade microphones.
I'm as curious as you."

I'm confused...Makes me a little leery about the extra $800...
John, to clarify, Blackspade has no partnership or affiliation with Tim Campbell. Just like we don't have a partnership or affiliation with Mr. Thiersch (who's capsules we also use), and there should be no confusion about this point.

It would help if you showed us what your question to him was, and place it into context for all of us to understand.

We're also not charging $800 just for a capsule. You're skipping a $485 power supply, $120 shockmount and a $120 cable. Add $400 for the capsule to that total, and you get a clearer picture of what you're getting for the $800 difference.

Thanks,
Mike.
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19th April 2012
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Wow this one of the stranger things I've read on GS. What's the deal with the capsule? Also I personally don't think Johnkenn was out of line or uncool at all. A guy has a right to research before spending money.
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I'm not up to anything...I was just trying to get clarification for an odd response that I received from Tim. In fact, I was - and still - considering purchasing - ask Warhead...I would have thought Tim would have an opinion on the mics considering this:

"For the details, the capsule is a full on custom job we reworked with Tim Campbell"
"Tim builds the capsules for us from the ground up to specifically match the UM25C's amplifier and assembly."




Hey Tim -
Considering this mic...does it have the same kind of woody mid-range of a
251? Just wondering if you consider it close.

Sent from my iPad

Dear John,
I have not affiliated with and have not heard any Blackspade microphones.
I'm as curious as you.

Kind regards,
Tim
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19th April 2012
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It is a mistake to even hint at JohnKenn's integrity - he is about the best that can be found on this board.

I too thought that Tim Campbell specifically did something to this capsule for this mic in particular, which would mean there is a relationship.

At the same time, I bet this is a great mic at a great price.

But I do think it would be best to re-read the posts on this Board, and take back those items that are inaccurate. Perhaps it is a translation problem or something. I am trying to keep an open mind.
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19th April 2012
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Dear all,

For the sake of clarity on all of this, please refer to post number 7 in this thread.

AES Pictures

I hope that answers all of your questions, and explains why you'll need to excuse me for not being very receptive to certain assumptions.

Sincerely,
Mike.
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19th April 2012
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I'm trying to keep an open mind too. I deleted my initial response.

I demo'd one of the prototype (I think it was) UM25's - there's even a thread comparing it to the Miktek...And I REALLY liked it. I was hoping the 25C would be even better. I'm sure it is. There just seems to be some hyperbolic statements floating around.

Tim C. posted in another UM25 thread. Maybe he can come in here and clarify. If I've misconstrued anything, I sincerely apologize.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
I'm trying to keep an open mind too. I deleted my initial response.

I demo'd one of the prototype (I think it was) UM25's - there's even a thread comparing it to the Miktek...And I REALLY liked it. I was hoping the 25C would be even better. I'm sure it is. There just seems to be some hyperbolic statements floating around.

Tim C. posted in another UM25 thread. Maybe he can come in here and clarify. If I've misconstrued anything, I sincerely apologize.
John, did you check the thread I posted above?

Placing any statement out of context like you did above creates confusion, and since we're only here to provide as much information as we can (not push nor pimp), we hope that people will be forthright with us, and ask us upfront if they have any doubts about anything instead.

We're only here to help, not to make up anybody's mind by influencing them with misinformation.

Sincerely,
Mike.
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19th April 2012
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Yes, I did. I see where Tim says he manufactures a capsule for Blackspade...

I don't think anyone was implying that he didn't make a capsule that you're using...it's the brevity and the oh-my-God-you-saw-the-dead-hooker-in-my-car-ishness of his reply that smells a little funny.

It's very possible that English is his second language or that he has a peculiar personality...but in this SUBJECTIVE business that sound is, we all want to know that we are getting what we pay for.
#29
19th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackspade Mike View Post
I think REX might be drunk too....

Mike as a moderator for gearslutz I will tell you comments like this to serious posts are only gonna make this thread and topic explode and not in a good way. I would tread easy.

James
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19th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotonic View Post
It's confusing when in your one post you said you were working with Tim on the capsule.

And in "your" following post you quickly say you have no affiliation with Tim.

Not sure what I'm missing too?

We all must be drunk
Tim is a capsule vendor. We're a microphone company that uses his capsules. Apart from this business relationship, we have no affiliation with Tim Campbell.

Maybe something is being lost in translation, as this business relationship maybe is an affiliation. If the confusion comes from there, my apologies. It seemed more suitable to post a thread with a statement by Tim himself, showing the two different capsules in pictures to clear any misunderstandings.

As said since the beginning, Tim Campbell builds this capsule to our specification for the UM25C. It is not his standard capsule, and is only available for the UM25C.

Hope that helps,
Mike.
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