UM251c blackspade - anyone tried it??

[AB3]

Good for you, Mike, to clarify this. I am sure JohnKenn was totally honest here. But when dealing with other countries, things can get confusing. The truth eventually comes out. I believe this involved ALL good people.

Now I want TWO of these mics. How well matched are they???

Originally Posted by Blackspade Mike

Dear all,

For the sake of clarity on all of this, please refer to post number 7 in this thread.

AES Pictures

I hope that answers all of your questions, and explains why you'll need to excuse me for not being very receptive to suspicions about our brands integrity.

Sincerely,
Mike.

[Blackspade Mike]

Here's the post in question so we can hopefully put this to rest.

[Blackspade Mike]

Originally Posted by AB3

Good for you, Mike, to clarify this. I am sure JohnKenn was totally honest here. But when dealing with other countries, things can get confusing. The truth eventually comes out. I believe this involved ALL good people.

Now I want TWO of these mics. How well matched are they???

Great!

Production tolerance is tight, but matching a pair up for you won't be a problem.

With thanks,
Mike

[scorpiwoman]

Originally Posted by Blackspade Mike

Great!

Production tolerance is tight, but matching a pair up for you won't be a problem.

With thanks,
Mike

Awesome! I ordered a pair of UM25c's from Adam today.

[warhead]

We are working our butts off to get the files up by tomorrow night, but having gone through all of these recordings done all day yesterday, and comparing with over 200 microphones referenced the same way, I can say there is a reason to be excited.

Stay tuned.

Also, looks like some sh*t broke out overnight in this thread...hope all is calmed down now.

War

[Tim Campbell]

Dear Everyone,
I am so sorry about the confusion in this thread caused by my response to an email that simply asked my opinion of a microphone I have not heard.

Let me be clear. I make the UM25c's capsule specifically for this mic.
Initially Blackspade and Oliver Archut bought one of my standard capsules,evaluated it, asked for various changes. I built a new capsule for evaluation, got feedback and eventually we settled on the parameters employed in the UM25c's capsule. It wasn't necessary for me to hear the mic during this development as it was their judment as to what fit their criteria.

As far as my opinion of this capsule I think it's one of the best I build and am really looking forward to hearing the end result. I am a big fan of Oliver's excellent work.

[warhead]

Hi Tim, Bob and I were just talking about our session a bit and the one thing that strikes us is how your capsule pulls low end out so nicely even at a distance. Any mic can deliver big bass response up close, but the UM25C with your capsule really delivers at distances.

He has a pair of C12a with original, unmodified CK12 capsules so we do have some context on tone and delivery.

War

[legato]

The tranny, amongst other things, plays a part in that, too.




Henk

[warhead]

Not really, it's the capsule in this case of the "C" version of this mic.

War

[legato]

Not really, it's the capsule in this case of the "C" version of this mic.

From what I understood some sort of a comparison was made there between the UM25C and a pair of C12A's.

Hi Tim, Bob and I were just talking about our session a bit and the one thing that strikes us is how your capsule pulls low end out so nicely even at a distance. Any mic can deliver big bass response up close, but the UM25C with your capsule really delivers at distances.

He has a pair of C12a with original, unmodified CK12 capsules so we do have some context on tone and delivery.

But perhaps I don't get it.
And in any case, I don't want to start a war, War.
It's not important.

Carry on.




Henk

[Johnkenn]

Awesome. That clears it up. Tim posting that Oliver wanted a few changes says to me that he and Blackspade have really worked hard at getting this right. Sorry I stirred up a shitstorm.

[warhead]

What I was saying was we directly compared the UM25 and UM25C as well though, which share the same transformer. I was a little confused at your statement.

No wars here! OK, just me.

War

Originally Posted by legato

From what I understood some sort of a comparison was made there between the UM25C and a pair of C12A's..

And in any case, I don't want to start a war, War.

[James Lugo]

All good stuff, can't wait to hear it.

[Mike Tholen]

I have been using the UM25s for drum overheads with no less than stellar results. In my career I have used many different mics for drum duties including many coveted vintage mics and I can safely say after 6 or so months of using them that I am getting some of my best sounds with these mics. They are very loud mics with a noise floor that is so low you will not even know it's working until signal starts flowing through it. It has scared the crap outta me on a few occasions! These mics have a very far focus/reach and they are very loud so I tend to have to pull them up a bit higher off the kit than if I were to use something like an sm81. Being farther off the kit you would think that the cymbals would get smeared and you would inject quite a bit of room in the signal but that has not been the case for me. I am getting a very detailed and natural sound...and I do not need hardly any gain from the mic pre. Brilliant just brilliant.
I am using them as split pairs and as MS depending on the client.
I am also using these mics for acoustic guitar and they have all the body and midrange sparkle you could ask for.
Everyone of my clients have commented on how great things are sounding since we started using them.
Life is good.

[AB3]

Hi Mike - any chance of posting a clip of the drum overhead recording?
Cheers,
AB

Originally Posted by Mike Tholen

I have been using the UM25s for drum overheads with no less than stellar results. . . .

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by warhead

We are working our butts off to get the files up by tomorrow night, but having gone through all of these recordings done all day yesterday, and comparing with over 200 microphones referenced the same way, I can say there is a reason to be excited.

Stay tuned.

Also, looks like some sh*t broke out overnight in this thread...hope all is calmed down now.

War

Can't wait. Been checking the site every 5 minutes War.

After trying them, which do you prefer on male vox, 25c or 17r?

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by Mike Tholen

I have been using the UM25s for drum overheads with no less than stellar results. In my career I have used many different mics for drum duties including many coveted vintage mics and I can safely say after 6 or so months of using them that I am getting some of my best sounds with these mics. They are very loud mics with a noise floor that is so low you will not even know it's working until signal starts flowing through it. It has scared the crap outta me on a few occasions! These mics have a very far focus/reach and they are very loud so I tend to have to pull them up a bit higher off the kit than if I were to use something like an sm81. Being farther off the kit you would think that the cymbals would get smeared and you would inject quite a bit of room in the signal but that has not been the case for me. I am getting a very detailed and natural sound...and I do not need hardly any gain from the mic pre. Brilliant just brilliant.
I am using them as split pairs and as MS depending on the client.
I am also using these mics for acoustic guitar and they have all the body and midrange sparkle you could ask for.
Everyone of my clients have commented on how great things are sounding since we started using them.
Life is good.

That done it. I'm putting my order in today, Warren. How many do you have in stock? Serious question.

[warhead]

Give me a buzz, happy to take care of you.

War

[warhead]

OK, I have clips of acoustic guitar, electric guitar and male vocals posted in the Clipalator from our session this week.

Clipalator: Audio and Video | Studio Gear Shootouts @ ZenProAudio.com

All four Blackspade models were used right after the other.

It's very interesting to hear the capsule / power supply upgrades! They are essentially night and day, of course the capsule is the heart and soul of a microphone...and it really shows here.

War

[RKrizman]

Thanks for posting the clips Warren. At first I thought the 25C was too bright and glassy, but after listening to a lot of other mics on your site I was impressed with how the mic translates the upper harmonics of the guitar without any "ringing" or annoying resonance (i.e., compare to the Neumann 87). I agree, the capsule upgrade is essential.

-R

[cowboycoalminer]

I thought the UM17r simply killed on everything, especially acoustic guitar. For my style of music, this is hands down the choice for me. What was your take on them, John? We have similar styles.

[Mike Tholen]

Originally Posted by AB3

Hi Mike - any chance of posting a clip of the drum overhead recording?
Cheers,
AB

Let me find something that has no legal baggage...I know I have a mono overhead example but let me see if I can find a stereo example with no legal ties.

[Johnkenn]

There's a lot going on above 10khz...I think I liked the um17 better. But I guess you really have to get them in front of you to be able to tell

[Mike Tholen]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

There's a lot going on above 10khz...

Where?

[Johnkenn]

You listen to the Clipalator clips?

[cowboycoalminer]

I thought the 25 was a bit high biased myself. Not thin sounding at all but still. This is probably why it shines on overheads and with some slight subtractive eq, would no doubt suit any voice. The 17 seemed very flat and brought out harmonics well. This is a subjective test that Warren has done so, there is really no way to tell until I get my hands on one. Both are a great mic.

[Mike Tholen]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

You listen to the Clipalator clips?

No I have not.

[warhead]

Just a bit more follow up info on our session:

I know I have explained this many times in many threads on this site, but the idea behind our mic tests was mine, and the focus I feel needs to be on repeatable scenarios that can continue on (this was our 16th session!). I have heard some AWESOME "shootouts" on the web that trump the performances and our presentation of mics, but outside of those shootouts there is no context. Therefore, sometimes a round peg won't fit in our square hole.

For example with these mics, as Mike stated they can handle drums from more of a distance and are very HOT output mics. But since every single drum recording we do is marked and reproduced as closely as possible, the Blackspade line needs more distance than that so our placement / position for us did not work. To record the mics from another area or height would not have been a comparison within our Clipalator. This is not to say you can't use them from a distance on drums as others are doing, but we stuck with our repeatable scenario. You can hear them all on all other sources.

You can hear the M7 capsule's very big, focused and smooth sound, just keeping everything up by the surface sooooooo nicely on the UM17R. What a forgiving top too! To me it qualifies as a WOW all purpose vocal mic, as well as other sources.

You can hear the CT12 with that super low end reach, gently pulled back lower mids for a very clean midrange delivery, and that rich presence and air that brings life to the top end. For acoustic sources it has an exciting and "finished" sound, and for background vocals (by contrast to something like the UM17R) it seems a WOW go-to mic as well as a go-to mic on acoustic sources. Like all mics it can be the perfect fit for the perfect voice.

Those are very general, initial impressions of both as we spent 2 days with them with our one guy tracking these sources. I think the stock versions sound nice compared to others in their range. I think if you're looking for that 47 sound or 251 sound, reaching for the upgrade versions is what I would suggest.

War

[RKrizman]

I wish I had been at the session, because just listening to these files does not give me quite the impression you're describing. Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast. For me, in all the clips, there's something missing in the guitar and male vocal recordings. None of the Blackspades would have been my go-to for those tracks, but then again I'm not hearing them live. However I appreciate the fact that you're trying to be repeatable and objective, and that is no small accomplishment. But when the numbers 47 and 251 are thrown around you need to bring something magic or else it's just another wannabe.

If you really think these mics are special I think you should give them a deeper workout and show what kind of beauty they're really capable of, because the pedigree is definitely there.

-R

[Mike Tholen]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

If you really think these mics are special I think you should give them a deeper workout and show what kind of beauty they're really capable of, because the pedigree is definitely there.

-R

I totally agree and I will be recording some acoustic guitar samples for all to hear next week.
I have a few different pres at my disposal and have been thinking about what I should use, for instance I have Telefunken V76s, EAB RE85, API, Amek 9098, Neve 1063, 1272, SSL desk, Hardy, SCA N72, and SCA A12.
I have been using the EAB and V76s with them about 90% of the time but I know this is not a reality for most people so that makes me think I should probably make these sample with something more attainable.

FTR I have the UM25 and the UM17R, I have not heard nor used the UM25C yet.