How long until high end vintage mics become unobtainium????
Alex Breaux
Thread Starter
#1
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #1
Not vintage? Burn it.
 
Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
How long until high end vintage mics become unobtainium????

10 years? 20 years? If anyone thinks I'm crazy, go right now and find me an ALL original m50, or elam251E. Just saying...

What do you guys think?

ps. Let's leave out any talk about clones or new mics etc. Lets stick to topic!!
#2
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
_Ludovico's Avatar
 

When collectors (read people with too much money to spend on anything that's valuable) become aware of the existence of GS, start reading it, and proceed to buy everything that's being raised to legend status on the internet
#3
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #3
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 

Whaddaya mean "when"?
#4
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Might not be as long as you think. The pendulum swings, and younger recordists are less interested. Sure, some of the very well known options will be tough, but others maybe not so.
#5
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Space Station's Avatar
 

Im stinking rich and everyone has a price. So never.
#6
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Breaux View Post
ps. Let's leave out any talk about clones or new mics etc. Lets stick to topic!!
You just answered your own question. Demand will drop as prices rise and as alternate product quality improves.
#7
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
kennybro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome View Post
Might not be as long as you think. The pendulum swings, and younger recordists are less interested. Sure, some of the very well known options will be tough, but others maybe not so.
True. Everything has a limit. Look what happened to vintage guitars from 2006 to now.
#8
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
toneguru's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
You just answered your own question. Demand will drop as prices rise and as alternate product quality improves.
That is exactly what I was telling my two friends Bruce and Bruce. We were saying that we figure the ceiling has been reached on the outrageous price for M50's, 251's and Fairchild 670's.

We were saying "cmon man $12k for a 670, $6k for a 251 or M50", that's crazy, how much more can it go up?"... "glad we got ours when we did".

... that actual conversation took place round 1995.

Eight years ago, I got a pair of Brauner KHE mics for $14k now they go for twice that.

Supply and demand is like a law of physics. Factor in our govt's addiction to debt and printing dollars and the price will most likely continue to go up. Nowadays, the US govt is on a mission to create inflation.

In less than a year, the price of steak has gone up 30% at Costco. No lie 30%. From tri-tip to NY to rib eye... 30%. That is crazy. The price of meat is going up faster than vintage recording gear. Maybe I should start collecting meat...

WTD: M50's, 251's and un-modified ribeye.
#9
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #9
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 

let the rich trust funders/collectors outbid each other.
yeah I have some some nice old neumanns but hell it I'm going to pay 15k for a 47 now..
lol,I've seen guys buying up old mics and making shitting music too.
I've also seen talented guys making music with newer mics and sonically killing it.
#10
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #10
Lives for gear
 
ddageek's Avatar
 

To quote Fletcher "wadday mean when"
#11
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #11
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
let the rich trust funders/collectors outbid each other.
yeah I have some some nice old neumanns but hell it I'm going to pay 15k for a 47 now..
lol,I've seen guys buying up old mics and making shitting music too.
I've also seen talented guys making music with newer mics and sonically killing it.
Agreed on all that. A couple of years ago, the prices crossed the threshold of insanity for me. Unless prices seriously drop, IMO, there is zero reason to have one. There are UNBELIEVEABLE mics out there that are every bit as good, although a bit "different". That makes it a hobbyist / collectors game. Those guys generally don't use them, and at the prices of today, they can have em for all I care....

Still, sad that guys who don't know which end to have the singer sing into are driving the prices beyond the reach of engineers / studio's that would put em to good use...
#12
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Arichlsss's Avatar
When I first used a blue bottle I had it setup for the vocalist backwards.......
Dang label and light are on the back for the engineer to get a visual on...
Go figure

Vocal was less than stellar on that take until we figured it out
#13
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #13
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Agreed on all that. A couple of years ago, the prices crossed the threshold of insanity for me. Unless prices seriously drop, IMO, there is zero reason to have one. There are UNBELIEVEABLE mics out there that are every bit as good, although a bit "different". That makes it a hobbyist / collectors game. Those guys generally don't use them, and at the prices of today, they can have em for all I care....

Still, sad that guys who don't know which end to have the singer sing into are driving the prices beyond the reach of engineers / studio's that would put em to good use...
about 1:00



Nigel: "Ah, this is special, too. Look, see, still got the, uh, the old tagger on it. See, never even played it. See?"
Marty: "You just bought it and... (He points at it)"
Nigel: "Don't touch it. Don't touch it."
Marty: "I wasn't gonna-- I wasn't gonna touch it."
Nigel: "No, don't touch it."
Marty: "I was just pointing at it. I..."
Nigel: "Well, don't point even. It can't..."
Marty: "Don't even point?"
Nigel: "No, it can't be played. Never, I mean, I can't..."
Marty: "Can I look at it?"
Nigel: "No."
Marty: "Don't look at it?"
Nigel: "No, you've seen enough of that one."
#14
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
ddageek's Avatar
 

Yeah but DRbill but we need to keep our collective traps shut or those mics will increase in price!

Now let's start A conspiracy to drive up the price of say Nady LDCs and make some coin!
#15
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #15
Banned
 

Just to throw another thought into the mix...

How long do you think vintage mics will actually survive as recording tools?

Surely at some point everything will die. The capsules will need to be reskinned, the capacitors will need replacing, even the insulation used on the transformer windings is bound to break down and fail...
#16
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #16
With the sheer volume and quality of innovative, reasonably priced, great sounding microphones being produced... who cares?

Between Gefell, Wunder Audio, Telefunken USA, Josephson, Sanken, Mojave Audio, Royer, Heil and many, many others there are tons of great options out there. To be honest I'd almost *rather* go with these mics because they are NEW.... no recapsule nightmares waiting to happen.

Not taking away from the vintage mics we all know and love, many of which shall never again be repeated (Neumann KM86... sniff). They are great, but there are some new kids in town....
#17
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
scott petito's Avatar
 

One word... gefell
#18
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #18
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott petito View Post
One word... gefell


or if you prefer - Two words.....

microtech gefell
Alex Breaux
Thread Starter
#19
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #19
Not vintage? Burn it.
 
Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meeker View Post
With the sheer volume and quality of innovative, reasonably priced, great sounding microphones

Between Gefell, Wunder Audio, Telefunken USA
Reasonably priced???????????? $4,000-$9,000 for a NEW mic??????
Alex Breaux
Thread Starter
#20
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #20
Not vintage? Burn it.
 
Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
And off topic we go... How did I know that the new mic convo would come up?

Telefunken has got as close as anyone will ever get to remaking the 251's. People still pay up to $20,000 for the originals and they sell all day for $12,000 when you can find them. Why is this? I guess they all must be crazy huh?.....

I do not mean to be rude or offend anyone, but out of all you guys that say that new mics are either A. just as good, or B. will replace the old stuff, or C. vintage mics break all the time, How many of you OWN at least over 5 high end vintage mics and use them every day? No offense, just wondering.
#21
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Space Station's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Breaux View Post
10 years? 20 years? If anyone thinks I'm crazy, go right now and find me an ALL original m50, or elam251E. Just saying...

What do you guys think?

ps. Let's leave out any talk about clones or new mics etc. Lets stick to topic!!
Why do you think they will be unobtainable? They are more obtainable than ever with a worldwide market at your fingertips.
#22
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #22
Gear nut
 
Rythm'BackStudio's Avatar
 

I can tell you one thing. I love all my mics, including 3 gefells. But nothing sounds like the 50 year old Neumann m269c I just bought. If you can find those old Neumann mics at a good price, in good condition they are worth every penny.

New highend condensers are very expensive too, look at T-Funk 251's, brauner, wunder, flea, the list goes on.. At that price I would rather have the old stuff.. And I think that many people feel the same.
Alex Breaux
Thread Starter
#23
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #23
Not vintage? Burn it.
 
Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Station View Post
Why do you think they will be unobtainable? They are more obtainable than ever with a worldwide market at your fingertips.
That is true. But my point is even in the last two years I have seen less and less available world wide. I think it will only get worse.
Alex Breaux
Thread Starter
#24
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #24
Not vintage? Burn it.
 
Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythm'BackStudio View Post
I can tell you one thing. I love all my mics, including 3 gefells. But nothing sounds like the 50 year old Neumann m269c I just bought. If you can find those old Neumann mics at a good price, in good condition they are worth every penny.

New highend condensers are very expensive too, look at T-Funk 251's, brauner, wunder, flea, the list goes on.. At that price I would rather have the old stuff.. And I think that many people feel the same.
Dead on!

Now lets say there was a mic on the market that was nothing different then one of the Flea's or Wunders. But it was $2500.... Now we are talking!
#25
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #25
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Breaux View Post
I do not mean to be rude or offend anyone, but out of all you guys that say that new mics are either A. just as good, or B. will replace the old stuff, or C. vintage mics break all the time, How many of you OWN at least over 5 high end vintage mics and use them every day? No offense, just wondering.


You are being rude to others though, but I've come to understand....it's just your own lovable personality.

A. Many are just as good, sometimes better. Depends on the source and sound you're after. Certainly the new mics are useable tools. Whether right or wrong, only the esthetic of the driver can determine. Certainly it will not be determined by public popularity.

B. They WILL in fact replace the old stuff as the old stuff becomes more and more museum pieces, broken/unfixable, and absent from work-a-day studios. That's just math and common sense. EVERY studio used to have a U87, U47, etc.. Now what? Maybe, MAYBE 1 out of 200?

C. Having spent a lot of time in well maintained pro studio's long before you knew what a microphone even was, I can safely say you stand about a 3 > 1 chance of a vintage mic crapping out over a new mic. Usually they can be repaired, but it's not always easy, and certainly not cheap if you send them to one of the specialists.

Makes me wonder just how long you been doin this buddy.
Alex Breaux
Thread Starter
#26
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #26
Not vintage? Burn it.
 
Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post


You are being rude to others though, but I've come to understand....it's just your own lovable personality.

A. Many are just as good, sometimes better. Depends on the source and sound you're after. Certainly the new mics are useable tools. Whether right or wrong, only the esthetic of the driver can determine. Certainly it will not be determined by public popularity.

B. They WILL in fact replace the old stuff as the old stuff becomes more and more museum pieces, broken/unfixable, and absent from work-a-day studios. That's just math and common sense. EVERY studio used to have a U87, U47, etc.. Now what? Maybe, MAYBE 1 out of 200?

C. Having spent a lot of time in well maintained pro studio's long before you knew what a microphone even was, I can safely say you stand about a 3 > 1 chance of a vintage mic crapping out over a new mic. Usually they can be repaired, but it's not always easy, and certainly not cheap if you send them to one of the specialists.

Makes me wonder just how long you been doin this buddy.
By asking if they actually own what the topic pertains to?

A. you know as well as I do that with certain applications a sm7 can work better then a u67. Its not about what is better or not.

B. The larger studios I have been to have a mic locker that consists of 98% vintage mics. Andreas Grosser and fix almost anything if it in fact does ever take a crap.

C. I guess this can vary... I have had more new mics take a shit on me then vintage. After opening them up, it seems that it is due to cost cutting parts or mass production with no pride in the work.

Maybe I have not been doing this as long as you, but I have been doing it long enough to speak about all of the above from years of experience. Apparently, my experience is different then yours. There is no right or wrong, and I'm not here to start a pissing match with you or anyone else, especially since this has gone completely left field of the subject at this point.

Back on track now? -

I believe vintage mics will become nearly unavailable in time due to people buying them up that never have any intention of reselling. The collectors that I know that have 500 mics or more, will not let a single mic out the door under any circumstances.
#27
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #27
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Breaux View Post
The collectors that I know that have 500 mics or more, will not let a single mic out the door under any circumstances.
Believe me, when they die, their wife, son, daughter or executor will be willing and eager to sell them. No doubt about it. They'll no longer have any say int he matter.
#28
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 
toneguru's Avatar
Alex makes some valid points.

I too love the vintage mics. But...

One need not spend $10k on an original M49, I just saw a Soundeluxe E49 sell for around $2,300. That is a damn good mic at a very fair price.

Of the new breed, for reliability and great sound, the Soundeluxe, Bock and Brauner mics deliver on both counts. Over the years I have had very few issues with mine.

Anyway, no use arguing over the inevitable, vintage mics are expensive today and will be more expensive tomorrow.
#29
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meeker View Post
Not taking away from the vintage mics we all know and love, many of which shall never again be repeated (Neumann KM86... sniff). They are great, but there are some new kids in town....
I probably shouldn't tell you about the pair of KM86's (sequential serial #'s) I found at a yard sale...

True story.
#30
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #30
If you can't get a good sound with a Gefell, you're not going to have any additional luck with serial number 1 Neumann Uwhatever in primo condition. There comes a certain point when vintage mania clouds our reason and makes us think stupid things.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
sunflute / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
27
tigermuzik / High end
13
Ken K / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
7
Marrone / Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production
28
AlexLakis / So much gear, so little time!
7

Forum Jump
 
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.