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How to tell an original Neve 1073?
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delano22
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4th April 2012
Old 4th April 2012
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How to tell an original Neve 1073?

Hi all.

I have never tried a Neve 1073. I want to buy one and use it for a while. However, I have NO knowledge of which are the reissues, the clones, the new ones, etc. and I don't want to get screwed into buying the wrong one or a fake with a different faceplate or something.

Can someone show me which is the original, vintage 1073? Is it the only one that looks that way?

Silly question, I know, for such a nice preamp (or so I've heard). I don't live in a big city and have never had any access to one so I never bothered to learn much about them. All I know is people love them so I want to try it out.

Thanks.
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There's not 'one' true 1073, the boxes differ a little on what parts were used. Which brings us to ... you have to look inside the box to tell if it's stock and what condition. It still could be all stock and in bad shape. How about taking the box to a knowledgeable tech? Don't know where you're from, but Geoff Tanner is the man.
Which brings us into the territory of 'clones', reissues, opinions... you could always buy something new from the usual suspects (search engine...) or from Aurora Audio. Maybe you would like to spend an afternoon reading threads about the whole topic?
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Hi
As all the 'originals' MUST have been recapped to make them work properly there is almost by definition no 'true' original.
I know of someone with a rack of 4 similar modules (not sure if they are '73's) but under test all 4 are quite different from each other due to having not been 'maintained'.
It is more practical to find a 'reissue' or accurate 'clone' rather than attempting to get hold of a true original.
You would also have the advantage of switches and pots that don't crackle, and a warranty.
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delano22
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Thanks guys, but I'm dead set on a vintage right now. I just don't know where to get one reputably that will be true vintage (but obviously maintained, cleaned, and what not). I understand there is some upkeep to do on them, but I think you know what I mean.

I just mentioned the other ones because I don't want to make a mistake and get one that looks just like it but isn't the same.

It's not really a practicality issue or a business matter for me, it's just my heart's desire to hear one in my studio.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
Thanks guys, but I'm dead set on a vintage right now.
How can you be dead set on something you've never heard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
I just don't know where to get one reputably that will be true vintage (but obviously maintained, cleaned, and what not). I understand there is some upkeep to do on them, but I think you know what I mean.
The best idea is to get one from a reputable dealer ie not just some ebay "deal". Over here, someone like Funky Junk, mjQ, or similar - someone who'll make sure they're selling quality stuff. You still haven't said where this small town you're from is, so no-one can make any better suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
I just mentioned the other ones because I don't want to make a mistake and get one that looks just like it but isn't the same.

It's not really a practicality issue or a business matter for me, it's just my heart's desire to hear one in my studio.
Well, that's your only option really then. As others have said, there's no one "true" sound for a vintage 1073 - they'll all sound slightly different, and the modern 1073 (ie the one with the EQ, not the 1073DPA which is preamp only) is as likely to be just as similar to any given original, as any 2 originals are to each other.

The other thing to remember is that there's a load of other 10xx models (1066, 1079 spring to mind) which a lot of people refer to as 1073s, but are also slightly different - I'm no expert on the internal differences, but the EQ points are different. A lot of the time when people might comment they used a 1073 on this or that, they could be referring to one of these other similar yet slightly different preamps. Likewise with the 1081/1084...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Syson View Post
Hi
As all the 'originals' MUST have been recapped to make them work properly there is almost by definition no 'true' original.
I know of someone with a rack of 4 similar modules (not sure if they are '73's) but under test all 4 are quite different from each other due to having not been 'maintained'.
It is more practical to find a 'reissue' or accurate 'clone' rather than attempting to get hold of a true original.
You would also have the advantage of switches and pots that don't crackle, and a warranty.
Matt S
Hi Matt, not trying to start an argument but Rupert Neve, John Klett and Ken McKim might tell you different. I've discussed this several times with all these gentlemen and indeed John Klett would never replace any capps in my 1073 that didn't need it. Rupert felt the same way. Dried out or exploded electrolytic caps of course should be replaced but the key words are "dried out" and "exploded"..

My console with ten 1073's in it maybe had one module ever worked on in it's lifetime. I can assure you guys that they all pretty much sounded the same. She was built in 1973. I even got the spare parts "fishing tackle box" that Neve use to supply with all their consoles at the time. It even said Neve on that box... how cool.

Now the St. Ives vs. the Mariners transformers sound different with one having much more "ringing' on the top (or so it seemed). Mine were all the same but I've tested enough "friends" modules over the years... 1073's, 1066's, 1079's and 1084's. Which with the exception of the gain staging of the 1079 all these pre's are the same (EQ points are a little different). Only difference between a 1066 and a 1073 is one has a fixed top EQ at 10K and the other is at 12K... that's it.. yet the 1066 would go for a grand less than the 1073... ha-ha (how stupid!)

Rupert would tell you replacing the caps should have no influence on the sound whatsoever... at least that is what he told me on several different occasions over the years. At one point in the early 90's I was going to re-cap all my modules with the Panasonic caps that were all the rage at the time. At the AES show that year Rupert talked me out of it stating the old "if it isn't broke" adage. Ken and John have told me the same. Other techs tell me that's "a bunch of bull" but I have a tendency to believe Rupert on this one.

I still remember Fletcher, Dan Alexander and a few other guys driving the price up on these modules... oh the "power of the press". For the longest time (like over 10 years) you could buy these for 800.00 to 1200.00 dollars but then these guys started the hype machine and drove the prices into stupid money for these things. Within a couple years the prices were up to 3500.00 a modules... it was stupid. A console I paid 8K for I sold for 46K (without any regrets!).

Great pre's and EQ's but highly over priced IMHO.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
I still remember Fletcher, Dan Alexander and a few other guys driving the price up on these modules
Larry, I'd look to the Buyer side for the Hysteria around vintage Neve. Blame both short supply, and demand, for forcing Neve prices upwards. Smart sellers simply stoke these Fires. Fletcher flew in and snapped up the 2 best Neve consoles in Australia in the late 1980's for a US buyer. We're still Kicking ourselves a bit over here about it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
Thanks guys, but I'm dead set on a vintage right now. I just don't know where to get one reputably that will be true vintage (but obviously maintained, cleaned, and what not). I understand there is some upkeep to do on them, but I think you know what I mean.

I just mentioned the other ones because I don't want to make a mistake and get one that looks just like it but isn't the same.

It's not really a practicality issue or a business matter for me, it's just my heart's desire to hear one in my studio.
Then if it was me I would rent a "real one" from Dreamhire ect and check it out.
But like mentioned some "Originals' are Not in great shape, proper maintenance is required..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
Hi all.

I have never tried a Neve 1073. I want to buy one and use it for a while. However, I have NO knowledge of which are the reissues, the clones, the new ones, etc. and I don't want to get screwed into buying the wrong one or a fake with a different faceplate or something.

Can someone show me which is the original, vintage 1073? Is it the only one that looks that way?

Silly question, I know, for such a nice preamp (or so I've heard). I don't live in a big city and have never had any access to one so I never bothered to learn much about them. All I know is people love them so I want to try it out.

Thanks.
Hi

Just look at the rear panel....

A vintage 1073 will have the following....

1. Two aluminium self-adhesive labels next to the Amphenol connector. One is the module type and issue number, t'other is the serial number, usually ending in /K to indicate made in the Kelso factory.

2. Black paper labels above and below the impedance switch stating Hi and Lo

3. A paper label with a number on it... usually these were used for photo slides but Neve used them to signify which channel in a console the module was plugged into.

Even then, there were some scoundrels masquerading as Neve experts, that cobbled together bits of old modules to create fake 1073's.

Years ago I was called to a nearby studio where Bruce Swedien was producing an album track for Michael Jackson... Murphy's law Michael was having a break so I missed seeing him.

Anyway Bruce has a lunch-box pair of vintage 1084's he takes with him and he was commenting that the rack of 1073's in the studio did not sound like his 1084's.

I took them back to my tech shop and discovered they were cobbled together fakes... even had wrong PCB's in them. The studio had bought them from a seriously famous dealer who were horrified when I rang them up and told them.

I was asked to fix them and that dealer would cover the cost. The immediate give away, before I slid the covers off, were the plastic serial and type number labels (used on later Neve products).

Fortunately, the culprit of those fake modules has retired and will no more get up to his nasty tactics.

That's not to say there aren't any more fakes out there....

Check those labels!



PS I also hold the philosphy, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
I still remember Fletcher, Dan Alexander and a few other guys driving the price up on these modules... oh the "power of the press". For the longest time (like over 10 years) you could buy these for 800.00 to 1200.00 dollars but then these guys started the hype machine and drove the prices into stupid money for these things. Within a couple years the prices were up to 3500.00 a modules... it was stupid. A console I paid 8K for I sold for 46K (without any regrets!).
Uhhh... cute thought, but it was simply "supply and demand" like any other commodity that drove up the price... and made way for several other "cottage industry" firms to open their doors building "clones".

When you have 10x 1073's sitting on the shelf... and you have 25 guys that want to buy the 10 units... they go to the highest bidder. Seems like you took advantage of the situation as well...

The "hype machine" wasn't quite invented when the price on 10 series Neve modules started rising... but when the "hype machine" [which some call the "interweb" -- see Gearslutz.com for details] started to raise the demand... the "market value" for those things did indeed start to climb.

Guys like me and Dan [or Dave Hadler, or Dave Moyles, etc., etc., etc.] didn't create the demand... we just had a supply.

Peace
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Hi Larry
It is impossible to counter the conditions that any of these modules habe been subjected to ober the years and while I would agree that it is not always necessary to 'recap' you need to ensure that ALL of them are within the original tolerances and state of 'decay'.
Matt S
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...and for that matter... bias the output amplifiers. I can't begin to describe how many out of bias 10xx modules I've encountered over the years. All you need is an oscilloscope and a screw driver yet so few think to keep up with routine maintenance stuff like that!!

Peace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
I still remember Fletcher, Dan Alexander and a few other guys driving the price up on these modules... oh the "power of the press". For the longest time (like over 10 years) you could buy these for 800.00 to 1200.00 dollars but then these guys started the hype machine and drove the prices into stupid money for these things. Within a couple years the prices were up to 3500.00 a modules... it was stupid. A console I paid 8K for I sold for 46K (without any regrets!).

Great pre's and EQ's but highly over priced IMHO.
Supply and demand - back in the 80's Alan Sides was buying every U47 in sight they were going for around 8K at the time. Everyone was gripping about the cost. Today that is pretty good deal for a U47.
Maybe in 20 years 8K for 1073 will be considered a bargan.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Uhhh... cute thought, but it was simply "supply and demand" like any other commodity that drove up the price... and made way for several other "cottage industry" firms to open their doors building "clones".

When you have 10x 1073's sitting on the shelf... and you have 25 guys that want to buy the 10 units... they go to the highest bidder. Seems like you took advantage of the situation as well...

The "hype machine" wasn't quite invented when the price on 10 series Neve modules started rising... but when the "hype machine" [which some call the "interweb" -- see Gearslutz.com for details] started to raise the demand... the "market value" for those things did indeed start to climb.

Guys like me and Dan [or Dave Hadler, or Dave Moyles, etc., etc., etc.] didn't create the demand... we just had a supply.

Peace
I knew that would get your attention Fletcher... ha-ha

I remember Dan buying up lots of these over in the UK and bringing back over and selling them in the late 80's... he was one of the bigger west cost suppliers of vintage Neve and you were one of the east coast suppliers at that time...

But here is the thing. They were easily found at that time. At least I could easily find them. I bought my BCM 10 full of 1073's at that time for 8000.00. Half a dozen gear brokers could get you a single 1073 for 800.00 to 1200.00... (like Doug Cronin at Harbor Sound in your neck of the woods at that time). Hell Doug sold me 1079's for 1200.00 each as late as 2004. I let my buddy take a pair of 2254's for 1750.00 from him as well... stupid me.

As I recall, some "brokers" started asking a lot more and the unknowing public began buying because article after article was coming out in the early 80's saying..."we tracked on a vintage Neve and mixed on an SSL"... and so it began... the hype machine that I was talking about.

No offense meant to any of you guys. I wished I jumped on the band wagon back then. I was getting friends of mine 8058's and 8068 consoles for 55 to 75K and not making a dime on them... stupid me.
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Hi

I am aware, but won't mention names (my mother always told me "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't speak at all"), that did deals with broadcast company insiders and bought 24 channel Neve consoles for around 2,000 UK Pounds... lining the palm of the insider and making a fat profit on the sale of the 1073's....
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Quote:
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Hi

I am aware, but won't mention names (my mother always told me "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't speak at all"), that did deals with broadcast company insiders and bought 24 channel Neve consoles for around 2,000 UK Pounds... lining the palm of the insider and making a fat profit on the sale of the 1073's....
This is business right?

I sold a Studer which was for free (just needed to move out quick and decomissioning).
I don't get it. You buy something for less then you sell it. Hooray => profit.

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Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
How can you be dead set on something you've never heard?
Never heard in my studio. That's like asking how I can like a girl I've never spoken with.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

Just look at the rear panel....

A vintage 1073 will have the following....

1. Two aluminium self-adhesive labels next to the Amphenol connector. One is the module type and issue number, t'other is the serial number, usually ending in /K to indicate made in the Kelso factory.

2. Black paper labels above and below the impedance switch stating Hi and Lo

3. A paper label with a number on it... usually these were used for photo slides but Neve used them to signify which channel in a console the module was plugged into.

Even then, there were some scoundrels masquerading as Neve experts, that cobbled together bits of old modules to create fake 1073's.

Years ago I was called to a nearby studio where Bruce Swedien was producing an album track for Michael Jackson... Murphy's law Michael was having a break so I missed seeing him.

Anyway Bruce has a lunch-box pair of vintage 1084's he takes with him and he was commenting that the rack of 1073's in the studio did not sound like his 1084's.

I took them back to my tech shop and discovered they were cobbled together fakes... even had wrong PCB's in them. The studio had bought them from a seriously famous dealer who were horrified when I rang them up and told them.

I was asked to fix them and that dealer would cover the cost. The immediate give away, before I slid the covers off, were the plastic serial and type number labels (used on later Neve products).

Fortunately, the culprit of those fake modules has retired and will no more get up to his nasty tactics.

That's not to say there aren't any more fakes out there....

Check those labels!



PS I also hold the philosphy, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
This is a great answer. Exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by ray_subsonic View Post
Fletcher flew in and snapped up the 2 best Neve consoles in Australia in the late 1980's for a US buyer. We're still Kicking ourselves a bit over here about it.
It was the 90's... and I probably got somewhere between 20 & 25 of them... most [but not all] from the ABC. Sorry mate, nothing personal... just business

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
I am aware, but won't mention names (my mother always told me "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't speak at all"), that did deals with broadcast company insiders and bought 24 channel Neve consoles for around 2,000 UK Pounds... lining the palm of the insider and making a fat profit on the sale of the 1073's....
Some of that definitely went on... you also have to remember that even by that time the units had been depreciated in terms of "inventory value" to the "state broadcast" facilities as well as private facilities. With the state broadcast facilities you put in a "tender offer" which the bean counters either accepted or rejected. Sometimes a little "green grease" was necessary to keep the guy who ran the facility from getting his brother in law [or some other friend, relative, etc.] to submit an offer for the stuff [as it was definitely worth MUCH more than it was being sold for by the agency].

So long as you were the only "dealer" bidding, you could get them for a VERY nice price [and it helped to have a facility contact person because these were "no inspection" bids]... but of course there were crating and shipping expenses... and at times more than a few bribes were necessary to get things out of the "former Eastern Bloc" countries.

I got three 8014's out of a "former Eastern Bloc" country once for very low dollars... only to have to pay that same figure again to the government "agent" who had the authority to say what got out as cargo and what didn't get out as cargo. He made it very clear that unless I paid him this rather hefty sum, the desks would be sitting there for a year or two before getting out of the country [which thinking about it in retrospect might not have been the worst idea going... that was during the "early/mid 90's price boom" and they were probably worth 30-40% more in two years than when I got them back... but I digress].

Peace
Baz
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The "hype machine" wasn't quite invented when the price on 10 series Neve modules started rising... but when the "hype machine" [which some call the "interweb" -- see Gearslutz.com for details] started to raise the demand... the "market value" for those things did indeed start to climb."
It's hard to argue with Fletcher's comment when the OP himself is adamant about buying an original 1073, despite never even using one

I have, and am completely happy with what Geoff Tanner and Dan Kennedy are offering.
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It's hard to argue with Fletcher's comment when the OP himself is adamant about buying an original 1073, despite never even using one
It's not that I think it's magical or even the best sounding. It's just a piece of history.
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Never heard in my studio. That's like asking how I can like a girl I've never spoken with.
Well exactly. You can worship someone from afar, and not be able to stand them when you're in the same room. Hence the reason you generally get to know someone before you marry them!
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Well exactly. You can worship someone from afar, and not be able to stand them when you're in the same room. Hence the reason you generally get to know someone before you marry them!
Lol, you're right. If you marry her, you can't sell her back though. In fact she's likely to take half of what you own. If I don't want the 1073 I could probably sell it for more than I could buy it if I'm discerning.
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Lol, you're right. If you marry her, you can't sell her back though. In fact she's likely to take half of what you own. If I don't want the 1073 I could probably sell it for more than I could buy it if I'm discerning.
Hmm.. the last couple of 1073's on ebay have sold for around 3,000 - 3,250 and one was a well known dealer - S.C....

Interest is waning.. Too many other options..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
Hmm.. the last couple of 1073's on ebay have sold for around 3,000 - 3,250 and one was a well known dealer - S.C....

Interest is waning.. Too many other options..
That would surprise me very much
#27
5th April 2012
Old 5th April 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
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Jack P is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by iangomes View Post
That would surprise me very much
When people are bidding this has been the price..

There are the usual people listing items way above their value (which don't sell) - check all the Neve 2254's up on the bay at double the price.. goin' nowhere..
#28
5th April 2012
Old 5th April 2012
  #28
member no 666
 
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Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Suffern, NY
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Fletcher is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz View Post
I have, and am completely happy with what Geoff Tanner and Dan Kennedy are offering.
I've worked with Geoff's and they're awesome... Dan's is as well. Having been around originals, clones, as well as "variations on the theme" for the better part of 30 years... there is abso-fvckin-lutely zero reason to buy "an original" unless you're a serious "rock star" and need the tax deduction while you gain the property for general use and later resale...<DELETED BY MODERATOR>

If you evaluate "tools as tools"... there are lots of great [spelled "a-m-a-z-i-n-g"] tools that will more than do the job for about 1/2 to a 1/3rd of the price of a potential maintenance nightmare / "piece of history".

Hey I'll give you a hint... sit the module on a table... listen to the sound that comes out of it. Right - nothing. The magic ain't in the tools... its in front of the [properly chosen] microphone... the rest is just a means to an end.

Peace
#29
5th April 2012
Old 5th April 2012
  #29
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
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Location: Boston
Posts: 7,116

robertshaw is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
How can you be dead set on something you've never heard?
the internet does strange things to people
but I'm sure he has heard a neve I mean haven't we all?
If you've ever listened to an old AC/DC or Chicago record
chances are you have heard the Neve sound.
Whether you realize it or not is another story
#30
5th April 2012
Old 5th April 2012
  #30
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 7,116

robertshaw is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
Life is meant to be enjoyed.
uh oh

but you right. Also I don't think any neve clone has the same thing going on in the bottom end.
I've owned all the neve clones or spinoffs..... BAE, gr, vintech, ma5 whatever... none of them have the
whole vibe. You want the vintage neve sound, you buy a vintage Neve, too bad.... but that's the way it is.

However that being said, I hate the vintage Neve sound. I sold all my Neves recently and switched to MA5 and Wunder
since they are punchier and cleaner & I don't have to tie up $4000 on a mic pre that I only liked because I was suppose to....
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