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#61
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #61
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I can distinctly remember the first time someone asked me to get a more harmonically distorted sound on a recording. I remember thinking they were crazy. Now we call that "colored" and it's pretty much standard practice for anyone recording digitally and doing pop/rock music.

I also remember when "good" became "bad", "bad" became "good" and you could get your face pounded in for calling something "colored". Geez, I'm getting old......
#62
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #62
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wow what fireworks!

for drums and electric guitar, rock, I really prefer the Classic Audio Products of Illinois preamps, specifically the VP312.

I also liked the API 3124+ but not until I swapped out the op amps for GAR2520.

I was also able to get a very similar sound to the 3124+ by modifying a VP312 as described in my thread here my new build, VP"512" with front panel DI, pictures!

the VP312 is more "rock n roll" sounding, the 3124+ (and my modified VP312) seem a little rounder on the top, slightly cleaner, and bigger on the bottom with very punchy and bright mids. The VP312 is thinner and lighter sounding in comparison, but a very balanced general purpose sound.

I think I like the VP312 all over the drum set, but, I also like entire mixes tracked with the 3124+ and the modified VP312 it creates this big cool sound stage.

Probably hard to go wrong either way, but, considering cost, the VP series are an incredible value. The output attenuators are very handy when recording loud sources like rock drums, and sound better than the push button pad on the front panel.

The VP26 had too much of a specific personality, for me personally, but I did get some good drum and guitar tracks with it, in retrospect.
#63
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteiger View Post
Well, well, well….first I must say, thanks Tony for giving me a very entertaining afternoon. I often wondered how long it would be until a thread like this (featuring you) came to be. Now I know!

Anyhow, since there are no “secrets” in what I do, let me enlighten you and anyone who cares to read this. Most all of the info I am about to type, has been on my website for as long as it has been active. So, this is really all old news but I will get you up to speed.

The VP26 concept. After seeing the 100-150 312 style mic preamps (to quote you Tony), that are on the market, I decided to do something a little different. The circuit I use is exactly the same as the preamp circuit that the original API used in their 1604, 2488 and 3232 recording consoles. From what I know, this was from around 72 to the late 70’s, a little after Datatronix took over.

What I have I changed? Besides using modern components…only two things. The coupling cap (ooh nasty!) between the opamp and output transformer was changed from 250uF/4V (bastard value in today’s world) to 470uF/16V. That will slightly lower the knee of the HPF it’s creating with the 20k resistor that is parallel with the primary of the output transformer. Minimal and almost not worth the discussion. The other change was the 250uF/4V (still a bastard value) cap that is series with the gain pot was changed to 330uF/25V. Again, minimal impact on the circuit. Not worth discussing.

Oops, I guess I did add the t-pad after the output transformer. My guess is not many people would want to give that up.

Now, that it’s for the changes. So, I guess what you are really saying is that Saul Walker and the early API team were poor designers and created a crappy preamp circuit and recording console?

Maybe you didn’t like the 33uF coupling cap that is before the opamp? Well Tony, you are right. It is not really necessary. Why is it there? It’s there because it was necessary when the console’s input channel was switched to Line Input. For whatever reason, Saul and company could have maybe switched it out when selecting Mic Input…but they didn’t. That’s why it’s there on my preamp. I mean really, who am I to second guess what they had specifically made the decision to do?

This same thing could be said for a handful of other components that are in the signal path. Like the 1k series resistor or the 150k load resistor or the 27pF shunt cap. Those are before the opamp. You could also loose the 20k R and 100pF shunt cap that are after the opamp. Again, they were used in the console circuit and my goal was to recreate that exact vibe so they are in use on the VP26 card.

Transformers. One of your manufacturers told me a little story about his conversation with the great Saul Walker and the 2622 input transformer. This was a few years ago from an AES show IIRC. What I do recall is what Saul said about the 2622. He said it wasn’t a great transformer (some 40+ years before your findings!). It was just some stock, off the shelf transformer from a now unknown manufacturer. It had issues. He talked about how he added the 1000pF caps on the primaries to tame some nasty HF ringing. That at least made it usable from his viewpoint. The 2622 is a gnarly little bitch of a transformer. It will give you a color like no other. It does not look good on the bench with an AP (is that what you used?). In fact, some might think it is “broken”!! LOL!! I have heard this before. In the late ‘70’s, API switched to Jensen input transformers. Who knows why for sure but cool, good for them. I was however after the sound of my 1976 API console preamp so I wanted a nasty little 2622. Low and behold, I ran across the great Ed Anderson. The transformer (amongst other things!) guru that played a part in the original MC76 as well as designed the Tav and Odd for Purple. Wait, I see you don’t sell Andrew’s stuff so you probably think they are sh!t. Anyways, Ed had already designed his take on the 2622 so he sent me a sample. It was nearly indistinguishable with the original AP2622’s in my console. Exactly what I was after.

Nearly all the same can be said for Ed’s 2623-1 output transformer. Not a great transformer on paper. Some would say it’s only good but, he nailed the old AP2623-1. Again, exactly what I was after. BTW, the AP2623 (some -1's and some -4's) was typically the only output transformer used anywhere in the old 2488 recording console. Bet you think those suck too?

Now, put all these things together (a complete circuit) and you have a very vintage, 1976 era mic preamp based on my vintage API console. If you would have asked me, “hey Jeff, why did you do this and use that” I would have told you. Any other “design secrets” you think need sharing??

Again, thanks as always for the entertainment!

Cheers, Jeff
Greetings Jeff.

I own two mnats 1176s that have Ed's iron in them.

I need to buy some stock in your company LOL Usually a microphone conversation ends with "So do you guys have a good preamp recommendation??"

And you already know what the answer is.

Peace
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#64
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #64
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I'm sure when TonyBelmont comes out with his preamp kit, we'll all get rid of our inferior VP26s.
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#65
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #65
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You're not required to build CAPI modules according to the directions. It's easy to mod the plan and make them however you want.

I personally like to build them without the output attenuator. Jeff, the creator will even tell you how to do it if you ask him. I've found him to be quite nice and helpful. I also lean toward the VP-25 kit which has the larger 2503 style transformer. That's what my genuine vintage API 312 modules have on them and I really like that sound. It's also the type of transformer you'll find in the API 3124 and the API 512.

As for the quality of the transformers, they are top shelf if you like "steel core" transformers like the original vintage API models.

The transformers from Cinemag are different, they have nickel content in the laminations. This gives them less distortion at 20HZ but if you like the real API sound then steel core is what you want.

It's not that one type of transformer is better than another, they just achieve different sound qualities. Ed Reichenbach and Deane Jensen both had connections with the early API company. Ed and Deane headed out to the west coast to do their thing. Ed was the REAL transformer genius and sought to build a "better sounding part". Deane was the marketing genius. Ed's designs gained high concentrations of Nickel in the laminations for flatter response, less group delay and lower distortion at 20Hz. Those are good qualities for "Mastering Quality" processors that need flat response and low distortion.

But the real API sound is filled with distortion and group delay, and obviously a lot of people still like that sound.

I create rock music and love the sound of the API style steel transformer, but for some sources I like a very clean sound like you get from Jensen parts. Cinemag builds parts that are easily equal to Jensen in quality. Both are quality builders. Cinemag builds custom parts using mixes of nickel and steel to create different sounding parts or they can build transformers using the highest quality and the greatest amount of Nickel. This is not voodoo technology, it's science based and very well thought out from years and years of application. I've unwould transformers and analyzed laminations by every vendor I can find.

I've built preamps using transformer components by Jensen, Cinemag, Crimson, and Edcor, they are all pro parts when used for their intended applications.

You can easily tweak a CAPI preamp to be an exact clone of a real vintage API 312. I have. I've built op amp kits by CAPI and I have a variety of genuine vintage API op amps. They're all good.

BTW if you like the distorted sound achieved by having an attenuator "after" the preamp (like the VP series from CAPI) you can buy the attenuator pot from CAPI, put that in a box and patch it after your real API 512 or 3124. I'm not a fan of that sound but some like it. That's personal taste not quality.

Good music to all!
#66
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #66
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I really don't want to go here and probably shouldn't. Heck, I think the many happy users of my poor quality preamps have said enough but, completely unfounded slanderous statements cannot go without a rebuttal.

Quote:
Yeah, I really dislike this whole idea.
Cool. thanks for your opinion. I suggest you should not buy one. Problem solved!

Quote:
Looking at it at face value, this type of implementation has the potential to negatively affect the sound.
This statement alone proves to me you have no clue about electronics or what you are talking about. Potentially slanderous, definitely unsubstantiated rubbish.

As for overdriving the preamps, that is great that you don't dig it. It can be done without all the fuzzy distortion that first comes to mind. This statement also tells me and every engineer who has ever tracked on a vintage API console...that you haven't. It is very common to hit those console preamps hard and pull back the channel fader. That is the wheelhouse of API. The t-pad is an easy way of making that possible without adding another gain stage. FWIW, you should talk to that manufacturer you rep for that we both spoke of earlier. He complimented me on the way the t-pad was implemented. I know you will not go against him. He puts food on your table. Enough said there.

Quote:
I think the console vibe could have been achieved without leaving some of these things in...
Again, you are showing all of us that you are clueless when it comes to electronic circuit design. These "things" you don't like are indeed what makes the VP26 just like the console preamp. Take them away, change the output transformer and you have a 312. If you got the drift of my earlier post, that was not the end goal for me. Take one "thing" away and it's no longer the same as the console. Sinking in yet?

Quote:
...there are some things I would have done differently...
I think we are all anxiously awaiting the release of your first product.

Quote:
...I was asked what I didn't like about this unit, and I gave him my honest assessment...
Seriously? Do they not know you from GS? Did you plug in a mic during your extensive testing? I only saw mention of a line source with a pad. Who designed and built that pad? Maybe it was a flawed design that had a negative impact?

Quote:
I don't think the transformers you are using are very good... on paper, or in "real world" use.
The money shot you saved for the end of another classic TB tongue in cheek post. Seriously? That is indeed slanderous BS and you know it. You have no data to back that up, electronic or otherwise. What you still are not getting is that by bashing the EA2623-1, you are simultaneously bashing Saul Walker and the API consoles throughout the 1970's that used the very same transformer. The ones that Ed has designed, were created to be a replica of the AP2623-1 that was used in the old API consoles. I have said this many time before but clearly it is a tough thing for you to comprehend. So bash it all you want, while you are simultaneously bashing the old API heritage. The only comparison that should ever be made with Ed's EA2623-1 is how closely it compares with a vintage AP2623-1. My estimate is that you do not have the equipment or knowledge to scientifically compare the two transformers. I suppose that you have your opinion and thousands of happy VP26 owners have theirs.

Quote:
Others are free to think differently.
Since you have asked Tony, I have a few quick stories that most have never heard before.

Through this past month of January, I received 3 or 4 phone calls from a producer/ engineer team that were tracking a record in Nashville. This producer (Grammy nominated) owns 4 of my VP26 preamps and also has the first 4 VP28’s that were ever made. They are his new “benchmark”. It was the first time said engineer had used my stuff. The very first thing out of his mouth during the first phone call was “Who made these transformers?. The are brilliant!”. After talking to him for 10 minutes, it was clear he knows more about electronics and circuit design than most current gear manufacturers. My preamps were used exclusively on this record. Once they got to overdubs, it was strictly the VP28. The VP28’s have 2 of the lovely 2623-1 transformers on board for twice the fun! I wonder if this engineer will win another Grammy for this record? He has 2 now, both from 2010 so I kinda trust his ears and judgment.

I have another engineer friend who has had a pair of my Missing Link modules parked on his mix bus since he got them. Those also have 2 of the 2623-1’s in each module. Said engineer also has access to a rack of my pre’s that he often uses when tracking. He is crazy enough that he loves to have the ML’s in his tracking chain even if set flat. I guess he likes how bad those transformers really are. Anyhow, he just recently brought home a Grammy for a record he tracked and mixed, that he used my preamps on. BTW, that was Grammy win number 7 for him. I wonder if he gives a rat’s ass what your opinion is of Ed’s 2623-1’s???

I have more stories but don’t want to bore you. Besides, I really have better things to do today. So, I’ll stick with my Grammy winning friends (like drBill!) and everyone else who has posted here already. Did you notice that no one has your back Tony?

Best, Jeff
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#67
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #67
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^^^

WTF?

I think this is really going overboard. It's not a good look for you folks. If you two were smart, you would delete all this crap and take it to private communication and work it out.
#68
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJam View Post
^^^

WTF?

I think this is really going overboard. It's not a good look for you folks. If you two were smart, you would delete all this crap and take it to private communication and work it out.
I think this is exactly the kind of spirited debate that "out's" the truth about a particular product or range of products.

Jeffs gadgetry is capable of very high quality results. You can build them in a number of different ways that allows you to get exactly what you want.

He's always helpful even when he's quite busy. He holds back nothing and I've never found him to skew the truth. This has led me to buy many parts and PC boards from him. Some things he offers are just plain not available elsewhere at any price (his summing amp solutions are quite brilliant and amazingly affordable if you've got the savvy to implement them).

Jeff has never been offensive while some gear pimps here on GS have been so pompous, grating and abrasive I'd never consider calling or buying from them regardless of their discounted prices (nor would I bash them by name because that's just not nice).

Best to all.
#69
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #69
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The VP-28 is a brilliant design, it is one of the only mic pre's I am aware of that closely
duplicates the entire signal path when tracking with a whole desk, a option that most
500 series users did not have. what's better than a steel core output transformer? 2.
the Neve I am currently working with the signal goes through at least 4 transformers
that rape the shit out of the signal, then again I don't see any 8068 owners throwing away
their desks any time soon. keep up the good work, I would not take this shit either. cheers
#70
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #70
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Once I built a couple vp26 and did a few recordings I ditched the 512c. The vp26 sounds way better to my ears. IMO There's a little less low mids going on in the vp26 that makes it sound a little more hifi. For $200 and some soldering skills (especially on the opamp) it's stupid not to at least try one.
#71
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foldback View Post
I think this is exactly the kind of spirited debate that "out's" the truth about a particular product or range of products.

Jeffs gadgetry is capable of very high quality results. You can build them in a number of different ways that allows you to get exactly what you want.

He's always helpful even when he's quite busy. He holds back nothing and I've never found him to skew the truth. This has led me to buy many parts and PC boards from him. Some things he offers are just plain not available elsewhere at any price (his summing amp solutions are quite brilliant and amazingly affordable if you've got the savvy to implement them).

Jeff has never been offensive while some gear pimps here on GS have been so pompous, grating and abrasive I'd never consider calling or buying from them regardless of their discounted prices (nor would I bash them by name because that's just not nice).

Best to all.
Wow, this is so well said! Thanks for saying it so well and in so few words.
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#72
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #72
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would it be out of the way asking on what API circuitry is SCA A12b based on?
I´ve used 3124+ and find it fast, punchy, bright and it´s mid range I want some opinion of
compared to my A12b I recently got and learning on. Somehow I find them to have more low end thickness but not as dense as 3124+.
The mid range I found more open.

Who has compared the two?
#73
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foldback View Post
You're not required to build CAPI modules according to the directions. It's easy to mod the plan and make them however you want.

I personally like to build them without the output attenuator. Jeff, the creator will even tell you how to do it if you ask him. I've found him to be quite nice and helpful. I also lean toward the VP-25 kit which has the larger 2503 style transformer. That's what my genuine vintage API 312 modules have on them and I really like that sound. It's also the type of transformer you'll find in the API 3124 and the API 512.

As for the quality of the transformers, they are top shelf if you like "steel core" transformers like the original vintage API models.

The transformers from Cinemag are different, they have nickel content in the laminations. This gives them less distortion at 20HZ but if you like the real API sound then steel core is what you want.

It's not that one type of transformer is better than another, they just achieve different sound qualities. Ed Reichenbach and Deane Jensen both had connections with the early API company. Ed and Deane headed out to the west coast to do their thing. Ed was the REAL transformer genius and sought to build a "better sounding part". Deane was the marketing genius. Ed's designs gained high concentrations of Nickel in the laminations for flatter response, less group delay and lower distortion at 20Hz. Those are good qualities for "Mastering Quality" processors that need flat response and low distortion.

But the real API sound is filled with distortion and group delay, and obviously a lot of people still like that sound.

I create rock music and love the sound of the API style steel transformer, but for some sources I like a very clean sound like you get from Jensen parts. Cinemag builds parts that are easily equal to Jensen in quality. Both are quality builders. Cinemag builds custom parts using mixes of nickel and steel to create different sounding parts or they can build transformers using the highest quality and the greatest amount of Nickel. This is not voodoo technology, it's science based and very well thought out from years and years of application. I've unwould transformers and analyzed laminations by every vendor I can find.

I've built preamps using transformer components by Jensen, Cinemag, Crimson, and Edcor, they are all pro parts when used for their intended applications.

You can easily tweak a CAPI preamp to be an exact clone of a real vintage API 312. I have. I've built op amp kits by CAPI and I have a variety of genuine vintage API op amps. They're all good.

BTW if you like the distorted sound achieved by having an attenuator "after" the preamp (like the VP series from CAPI) you can buy the attenuator pot from CAPI, put that in a box and patch it after your real API 512 or 3124. I'm not a fan of that sound but some like it. That's personal taste not quality.

Good music to all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by foldback View Post
I think this is exactly the kind of spirited debate that "out's" the truth about a particular product or range of products.

Jeffs gadgetry is capable of very high quality results. You can build them in a number of different ways that allows you to get exactly what you want.

He's always helpful even when he's quite busy. He holds back nothing and I've never found him to skew the truth. This has led me to buy many parts and PC boards from him. Some things he offers are just plain not available elsewhere at any price (his summing amp solutions are quite brilliant and amazingly affordable if you've got the savvy to implement them).

Jeff has never been offensive while some gear pimps here on GS have been so pompous, grating and abrasive I'd never consider calling or buying from them regardless of their discounted prices (nor would I bash them by name because that's just not nice).

Best to all.

Informative AND insightful. Great posts foldback!
#74
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foldback View Post
I think this is exactly the kind of spirited debate that "out's" the truth about a particular product or range of products.

Jeffs gadgetry is capable of very high quality results. You can build them in a number of different ways that allows you to get exactly what you want.

He's always helpful even when he's quite busy. He holds back nothing and I've never found him to skew the truth. This has led me to buy many parts and PC boards from him. Some things he offers are just plain not available elsewhere at any price (his summing amp solutions are quite brilliant and amazingly affordable if you've got the savvy to implement them).

Jeff has never been offensive while some gear pimps here on GS have been so pompous, grating and abrasive I'd never consider calling or buying from them regardless of their discounted prices (nor would I bash them by name because that's just not nice).

Best to all.
I don't think we needed to see all of this. The last post seemed like total overkill from my perspective. I didn't learn anything from it. I still don't know what the deal is with these transformers. Who makes them? Where? China? I bet we never find out. lol
#75
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJam View Post
Who makes them? Where? China? I bet we never find out. lol
I get them thru Ed Anderson. I fully respect Ed's sources and will never disclose them. I can 100% guarantee you they are wound in the good 'ole USA. Every transformer I carry is made in the USA.
#76
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJam View Post
I don't think we needed to see all of this. The last post seemed like total overkill from my perspective. I didn't learn anything from it. I still don't know what the deal is with these transformers. Who makes them? Where? China? I bet we never find out. lol
If you want to know where Jeffs transformers are made why don't you ask him? I bet he will tell you, that's just the kind of guy he is, transparent and helpful.

hint, they're not made in China!

Better yet, order some of Jeffs transformers and listen for yourself. I've compared them directly to the ones on my real honest to goodness vintage API 312 cards, you could not pick out which is which in a blind test.

Obviously I'm a fan of Jeffs work and products, I don't think it's overkill to explain the technology when I see casual derogatory statements about transformer quality. I've built many million dollar systems using a lot of transformers and I've got opinions too.

Possibly one of the most important things, I'm not selling anything here, just trying to help others understand technology.

Good music to you.
#77
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foldback View Post
If you want to know where Jeffs transformers are made why don't you ask him? I bet he will tell you, that's just the kind of guy he is, transparent and helpful.
He just said that it's a secret. lol
#78
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJam View Post
He just said that it's a secret. lol
And why wouldn't it be? Business is business. We know who the designer is, and that they are manufactured in the USA. Do we need the winders address?
#79
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJam View Post
He just said that it's a secret. lol
He just said they're made in the USA!

I can attest that this is the truth.

Try one, you'll like it (if you like the vintage API sound).

Peace out!
#80
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #80
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wow great information... thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by foldback View Post
You're not required to build CAPI modules according to the directions. It's easy to mod the plan and make them however you want.

I personally like to build them without the output attenuator. Jeff, the creator will even tell you how to do it if you ask him. I've found him to be quite nice and helpful. I also lean toward the VP-25 kit which has the larger 2503 style transformer. That's what my genuine vintage API 312 modules have on them and I really like that sound. It's also the type of transformer you'll find in the API 3124 and the API 512.

As for the quality of the transformers, they are top shelf if you like "steel core" transformers like the original vintage API models.

The transformers from Cinemag are different, they have nickel content in the laminations. This gives them less distortion at 20HZ but if you like the real API sound then steel core is what you want.

It's not that one type of transformer is better than another, they just achieve different sound qualities. Ed Reichenbach and Deane Jensen both had connections with the early API company. Ed and Deane headed out to the west coast to do their thing. Ed was the REAL transformer genius and sought to build a "better sounding part". Deane was the marketing genius. Ed's designs gained high concentrations of Nickel in the laminations for flatter response, less group delay and lower distortion at 20Hz. Those are good qualities for "Mastering Quality" processors that need flat response and low distortion.

But the real API sound is filled with distortion and group delay, and obviously a lot of people still like that sound.

I create rock music and love the sound of the API style steel transformer, but for some sources I like a very clean sound like you get from Jensen parts. Cinemag builds parts that are easily equal to Jensen in quality. Both are quality builders. Cinemag builds custom parts using mixes of nickel and steel to create different sounding parts or they can build transformers using the highest quality and the greatest amount of Nickel. This is not voodoo technology, it's science based and very well thought out from years and years of application. I've unwould transformers and analyzed laminations by every vendor I can find.

I've built preamps using transformer components by Jensen, Cinemag, Crimson, and Edcor, they are all pro parts when used for their intended applications.

You can easily tweak a CAPI preamp to be an exact clone of a real vintage API 312. I have. I've built op amp kits by CAPI and I have a variety of genuine vintage API op amps. They're all good.

BTW if you like the distorted sound achieved by having an attenuator "after" the preamp (like the VP series from CAPI) you can buy the attenuator pot from CAPI, put that in a box and patch it after your real API 512 or 3124. I'm not a fan of that sound but some like it. That's personal taste not quality.

Good music to all!
#81
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJam View Post
I don't think we needed to see all of this. The last post seemed like total overkill from my perspective. I didn't learn anything from it. I still don't know what the deal is with these transformers. Who makes them? Where? China? I bet we never find out. lol
Same guy who makes the transformers for your Purple MC77 made the ones for the CAPI preamps, along with the 1176 transformers for the mnats 1176 and the Neve input and output transformers for the mnats 1272 kit and the 500 series Neve preamp thats coming out very soon.

They are made in the USA and its no secret that Ed Anderson's work is nothing short of incroyable.

So far the units I've recommended the most this year are the CAPI 500 series (pick yer flavor), the 1272 pres from Revive Music (Neve Pres for $830 a pair!) and the Urei 1108 preamps from Revive Music for under $800.

Damn dang wow sheesh yowza.

Peace
Illumination
#82
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Cool... so what do you know about coupling caps? De-coupling caps?

Simply put...I don't like the way they were implemented. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill, guys. I really didn't feel like getting into a technical debate today about freakin caps (or anything else).

The VP26's are great! We could have bought ANY preamps we wanted but we bought CAPI!

Why don't you want a technical debate? Because you don't know what your talking about?
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#83
8th March 2012
Old 8th March 2012
  #83
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I will say Jeff is above many when it comes to API.His old studio partner is a very good friend of mine for many years Zack M,one of the very best players and engineers I know.

I almost took a road trip to pick up his current API console,in which he had to cut a hole in his house to swing it in...then the board was restored beyond anything I have ever seen...Bruce Breckenfeld was amazed,and it takes a bunch to amaze Bruce...

the CAPI stuff is top notch and I don't sell it,and I am a pimp grande!

I listened to a VP26 recently and really thought it was special,I have zero clue about cap coupling and could give a rats ass,it sounds great...does that not count?

leave the tech stuff for the techs...yes I have a very good understanding of whats going on under the hood, but it is not my field.

if these modules rock your boat, load up,why wouldn't you,as Fletcher once said"life's too short too suck"

cudos Jeff

peace
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#84
9th March 2012
Old 9th March 2012
  #84
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Originally Posted by illacov View Post
Same guy who makes the transformers for your Purple MC77 made the ones for the CAPI preamps, along with the 1176 transformers for the mnats 1176 and the Neve input and output transformers for the mnats 1272 kit and the 500 series Neve preamp thats coming out very soon.

They are made in the USA and its no secret that Ed Anderson's work is nothing short of incroyable.

So far the units I've recommended the most this year are the CAPI 500 series (pick yer flavor), the 1272 pres from Revive Music (Neve Pres for $830 a pair!) and the Urei 1108 preamps from Revive Music for under $800.

Damn dang wow sheesh yowza.

Peace
Illumination
Thanks Illumination. On the Hairball Audio website, they say the Ed Anderson 1176 input transformer is made by a company named Altran. This is the input transformer that's in my Purple MC77? Hairball Audio

And, I found a post on groupdiy.com by Ed Anderson talking about them. Altran made the transformers for the Old School Audio MP-1A preamps. They are a power transformer company. Guess I know why it was kinda a secret if that's who they are using. $16 for a transformer. WTF, I feel like I just got punched in the belly. Has anyone tried the Altran transformers (for Neve etc.) ?
#85
9th March 2012
Old 9th March 2012
  #85
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The altrans are great, they measure and sound very much like the high end classic's but for a great price!
#86
9th March 2012
Old 9th March 2012
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
Same guy who makes the transformers for your Purple MC77 made the ones for the CAPI preamps, along with the 1176 transformers for the mnats 1176 and the Neve input and output transformers for the mnats 1272 kit and the 500 series Neve preamp thats coming out very soon.

They are made in the USA and its no secret that Ed Anderson's work is nothing short of incroyable.

So far the units I've recommended the most this year are the CAPI 500 series (pick yer flavor), the 1272 pres from Revive Music (Neve Pres for $830 a pair!) and the Urei 1108 preamps from Revive Music for under $800.

Damn dang wow sheesh yowza.

Peace
Illumination
Off topic...
Yo illa!
Update your web site (looks wise)!! really like what ya do!!
keep it up!!
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#87
9th March 2012
Old 9th March 2012
  #87
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Also, give the Sytek MPX 4aii a look..

Great for drums as well.
#88
9th March 2012
Old 9th March 2012
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJam View Post
Thanks Illumination. On the Hairball Audio website, they say the Ed Anderson 1176 input transformer is made by a company named Altran. This is the input transformer that's in my Purple MC77? Hairball Audio

And, I found a post on groupdiy.com by Ed Anderson talking about them. Altran made the transformers for the Old School Audio MP-1A preamps. They are a power transformer company. Guess I know why it was kinda a secret if that's who they are using. $16 for a transformer. WTF, I feel like I just got punched in the belly. Has anyone tried the Altran transformers (for Neve etc.) ?
So what is your point?

There is a lecture on the AES website, where Rupert Neve is stating he gets his transformers for his new gear for less than $5 in bulk. You can go listen, and FF to the end to hear it yourself. Doesn't mean they are bad transformers, and doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to mark them up.

People seem to think the RND stuff sounds great, so...

Who cares?

If Anderson took the time to wind the prototype, and it sounds good, what's the issue? That xformer you linked to is a UTC ouncer clone, different xformer than is in the CAPI's anyways. Probably already in production. Plus, there are others on that site by EA that are wound by cinemag...so who knows?

Anderson did the R&D on the API, he got it done. This takes time and effort. A lot of effort without pay.

Maybe if you want to wind up your own transformers, to save a buck, you should do so? Maybe you can run off a batch of 2000 and get them for $5 a piece?

It's all about recouping your money, and time for R&D and prototyping.

He still offers the transformers for less than a lot of manufacturers.

Let it go man. Your box sounded fine and didn't raise any issues until you discovered this?

Put in a $100 Jensen if it bugs you. Oh wait....it may only cost them $45 to have them wound in bulk....better not.

john
#89
9th March 2012
Old 9th March 2012
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJam View Post
And, I found a post on groupdiy.com by Ed Anderson talking about them. Altran made the transformers for the Old School Audio MP-1A preamps. They are a power transformer company. Guess I know why it was kinda a secret if that's who they are using. $16 for a transformer. WTF, I feel like I just got punched in the belly. Has anyone tried the Altran transformers (for Neve etc.) ?
Hi NYJam, just noticed today is your first day here, welcome

I don't know what's in your Purple compressor but I do know about Altran. Besides making power transformers they make audio transformers. This is clearly spelled out on their web site.

I looked at the thread on DIY you mentioned. The prices you quoted were from another thread and not specifically about the Altran input transformer Ed was mentioning. Frankly with the price of nickel these days I'd be surprised if you could buy mumetal shielded enclosures for $16 each in qty's of 250 much less complete OEM input transformer parts.

Altran would be happy to quote you if you could supply them with the specifications you want and are able to meet their minimum order requirements. That is pretty much the case with any transformer manufacturer.

Altran is able to build to UL specifications, that's not an easy or simple task. I would not disparage them for being a power supply transformer manufacturer. Each type of transformer has unique construction attributes. Many high-end tube audio power amplifiers have extremely complex output transformers that are much more difficult to manufacture than mic or line input transformers for audio applications.

Actually the need for high quality audio transformers is a pretty small niche industry compared to the demand for power supply transformers.

Altran must do a good job if they're an American company and still in business today.

I don't work for any of these manufacturers but I know them all. In todays market you've got to be a very good US manufacturer to be able to stay in business.

If you think $16 in 250 piece lots is cheap, how about $1 in 10,000 lots from overseas (with a cheap steel shield can instead of mumetal). Now that's a punch in the stomach.

Great to have you here on GS!
#90
9th March 2012
Old 9th March 2012
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyman View Post
Also, give the Sytek MPX 4aii a look..

Great for drums as well.
Oooooo yeeaaahhhh!!!!
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