Looking for high quaility 2 channel DA

[s.d.finley]

Mytek should be here this week!!

[s.d.finley]

The mytek sounds wonderful!!!!!

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I got a new DAC last week. It's based on the top-o-line BurrBrown PCM1792A DAC. This one uses 4 of them in a dual mono configuration. It does -132 db dynamic range. It was built using my opamps of choice, the ADA4898-1/2.

Jim, thanks for the tip! Your post got me interested in the Ross Martin units because I know you're not easily impressed with new designs (or most designs in general). ;-)

So I ordered the Ross Martin ADC and your version of DAC. It's going to be very interesting doing a shootout between the PCM1792A DAC and the Sabre DAC in the Mytek DAC DSD unit. I will also test the Ross Martin ADC against my Mytek ADCs which going to be very interesting as well.

Still waiting for the units and will have a couple of weeks vacation, but stay tuned for a review.


Cheers
Fred

[Blister]

Originally Posted by Richard Akira

Antelope Zodiac+ with Voltikus.

+1 on this late chime in.

I have a Zodiac + without the Voltikus and while it takes a good 100 or so hours to sweeten, it is an amazing bit of kit.

[frenzy]

The Ross Martin units have arrived and are down at the post office. I will pick them up tomorrow and compare them to my other converters.

Report will follow... :-)


Cheers
Fred

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by frenzy

The Ross Martin units have arrived and are down at the post office. I will pick them up tomorrow and compare them to my other converters.

Report will follow... :-)


Cheers
Fred

Be interested to read your impressions Jim W has mentioned Ross Martin several times now.

[TankT34]

Originally Posted by frenzy

The Ross Martin units have arrived and are down at the post office. I will pick them up tomorrow and compare them to my other converters.

Report will follow... :-)


Cheers
Fred

Waiting for your comparison results , as I'm also considering Ross Martin converters,

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by TankT34

Waiting for your comparison results , as I'm also considering Ross Martin converters,

Well, turns out the package hasn't been sorted yet, but hopefully it will be collectible tomorrow. So standby for a comparison with the Mytek DSD DAC, Mytek 8x192 and Lavry DA10.


Cheers
Fred

[gigi]

any news on your comparision?

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by gigi

any news on your comparision?

Yes! :D

Got the Ross Martin units a couple of days ago, but I'm still on vacation so I've only had brief encounters with them so far (when my family gone to sleep).

Opening the package and feeling the smell of varnished wood doesn't happen too often and was a really nice surprise, much nicer than the usual smell of acrylic plastic.

The hand-painted wooden sides certainly doesn't live up to the standard of HIFI hardware, and HIFI-enthusiasts will probably frown at the "cheap look". I think it looks charming.

I have a habit of opening up all new hardware and have a look at the inside and inside the DAC there was a loose screw that needed fixing. No biggie, can happen to large scale production units too.

I started by hooking up the DAC - PCM1794 Dual “Bare Beast” "gearslutz unit" (with op-amps specified by Mr Jim Williams) and compared it to my Mytek DSD DAC Mastering unit.

To be honest I really didn't think that the much cheaper Ross Martin DAC would stand a chance, but boy was I wrong. In short the mid-range of the Mytek is more vivid and euphoric if you like, whereas the mid-range of the PCM1794 is more detailed and analytic (but without sounding boring). I'm splitting hair because both units sound great.
Then I opened up a mix I'm working on and switched back and fourth listening to the recorded analogue mix and the differences became more clear to me. When I listened through the PCM1794 I instantly felt the urge to tweak the mix even more, fix some low-end problems and even out the mid-range intensity. The low-end response of the PCM1794 is fantastic, very fast, very accurate, thick and firm. The low-end response of the Mytek DSD DAC is also very good, but a tad rounder in comparison and a little more forgiving.
But what I like the most about the PCM1794 is the mid-range and upper mid-range clarity, very detailed and not a single trance of digital harshness.

Only days after getting the Ross DAC I've already set it up as my main monitor DAC, simply because it seems to tell me some more about my mixes than any DAC I've used before.

Money-wise it's a no-brainer, go buy!

I will still enjoy listening to DSD sound through the Mytek DSD DAC and I will use it when I do analogue mastering because it sounds really vivid and uncolored, and for sending vocals into my analogue summing box.

When I have more time on my hands I will compare the Ross DAC to my Lavry DA10 and Mytek 8x192.


The Ross Martin PCM4222 ADC is quite large for being just a two channel ADC, but luckily it fitted into the rack space of my (now faulty) Mytek Stereo192 ADC. The front panel has a couple of switches with cryptic or absent description next to them. Reading the "manual" (one side paper) it has two different filter responses and a bypass switch for the high-pass filter. The ADC can only run as digital masterclock or be slaved by another PCM4222 unit, the sync input is NOT a wordclock input, and will only accept a special sync signal from another PCM4222 unit. So I had to set it up as master in my digital setup when I'd much prefer having the Mytek 8x192 as master.
Everything synced up to the PCM4222 my RME RayDat soundcard reported 44099Hz instead of 44100Hz.
None the less, I played the analogue summed mix I'm working on through the PCM4222 and it sounded really good. The input pots for left and right channel felt pretty sturdy I had no problems aligning them. I never thought I needed input volume pots until I got the Mytek Stereo192 ADC which has a stereo input volume pot. But it's quite nice to be able to run a rather hot signal through some analogue gear and then be able to back off the level when hitting the ADC.

I'd say the sound of the PCM4222 is very open, wide and detailed. Love the mid-range depth which seems to keep much of the impact of the lead vocals. Fooling around with the filter settings I think I like the "Low Group Delay" setting the best with the high-pass filter bypassed - it seems to portray the analogue mix the best.

I'm going to email Ross and ask if he can design a Wordclock -> PCM4222 sync box so that the PCM4222 can accept incoming Wordclock. I hope he understands the importance of such a unit.

I've actually planned to get an extra digital sound card just to be able to record my analogue mixes at higher sample rate. When I do the PCM4222 will fit the glove perfectly.

Again, money-wise it's a no-brainer, go buy!

Both Ross Martin units seems to work perfectly and I can dearly recommend them to anyone wishing to upgrade their sound. Well worth the money and month waiting for the units to arrive.


Cheers
Fred
Sound On Sound contributor

[Plush]

Strong MOve! Fred!
Thank you for your report.
Nice one!

best from Chicago,

PlushFLLLUSH

[skybluerental]

i have the RMA DAC and have compared it to my RADAR D/A and the D/A in a Presonus Central Station directly.

the RMA DAC is in the same league as the RADAR (while slightly different i cannot say i prefer one to the other) and it blew away the Central Station. next to the RMA the Central Station sounded narrow, harsh and completely lacking in the bottom octave. the difference was MUCH more pronounced that i had expected.

RMA DAC is one of the best deals in pro audio today in my opinion.

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by skybluerental

next to the RMA the Central Station sounded narrow, harsh and completely lacking in the bottom octave. the difference was MUCH more pronounced that i had expected.

I use a Presonus Central Station as well and it's a (highly) *EDITED* pretty transparent and very useful unit, but you description of the built-in DAC is accurate - it's the only thing on the Central Station not worth using. I'd say it's on par with an old Sound Blaster sound card...minus the noise. ;D


Cheers
Fred

Sound On Sound contributor

[Tui]

Originally Posted by frenzy

I started by hooking up the DAC - PCM1794 Dual “Bare Beast” "gearslutz unit" (with op-amps specified by Mr Jim Williams)
...
Cheers
Fred
Sound On Sound contributor

Hello Fred, thanks much for your report. I, too, would like to order a ROSS MARTIN stereo DAC sooner rather than later, however, I'm somewhat confused as to the steps I need to take. It seems there are many variations of the PCM1794:

More Ear Gear

This is what I'm looking for:

- 220V 50Hz mains
- USB input (I'm on Mac and want to use the DAC as part of an Aggregate Device)
- SPDIF coax and/or optical input would be nice
- A good sound!

You mentioned "op-amps specified by Mr Jim Williams". Jim says his unit is "based on the top-o-line BurrBrown PCM1792A DAC. This one uses 4 of them in a dual mono configuration." What does "dual mono configuration" mean, in this context?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[TankT34]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Another customer in Austria also just got the RMA dual bare beast. He has Lavry, Mitek and others and says this is the best yet.

Hi Jim,
As I understand , Ross Martin Converters use their own clock ?
I plan to buy RM DAC - PCM1794 and PCM4222 ADC
My soundcard is LYNX TWO B
I plan to use this setup for reamping, so what I want to know is , can both DAC - PCM1794 and PCM4222 ADC be connected to my LYNX card digitaly and work simultaneously for reamping purposes ?
if the answer is <yes> then will it use LYNX clock or Ross Martin's ?
I 've just never used external converters before , so I'm trying to guess how to set up everything right
Thanks

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by TankT34

can both DAC - PCM1794 and PCM4222 ADC be connected to my LYNX card digitaly and work simultaneously for reamping purposes ?
if the answer is <yes> then will it use LYNX clock or Ross Martin's ?

Both converters can be hooked up with your sound card. Due to the fact that the PCM4222 doesn't accept wordclock sync, it needs to set up as the digital master clock. No biggie, you will select the sample rate with a button on the PCM4222. Your Lynx sound card will have to be set in Slave mode and be clocked by the incoming digital signal; SPDIF, AES/EBU or TOSLINK. The PCM1794 automatically clocks to the incoming digital signal so all you have to do is to select which input to use; SPDIF, AES/EBU or TOSLINK (optical).

Originally Posted by TankT34

I 've just never used external converters before , so I'm trying to guess how to set up everything right
Thanks

The basic rule is that only one digital device can be Master, all other digital devices will have to be Slaved to the incoming digital signal or Wordclock sync.

A simple way to test you digital setup is to play a 1000Hz sine wave and listen to it. If the digital sync is out of sync then you will hear faint clicks. The PCM1794 has an indicator on the front that light green when the digital sync is correct. I'm sure that you Lynx sound card has some kind of indicator as well. It's always good to keep an eye on them when hooking up digital devices.

The one inconvenience with the PCM4222 setup is that it will have to be turned on, clocking your system, even when you're not using it, OR you have to remember to set your Lynx sound card to master whenever the PCM4222 is turned off.


Good luck!
Fred

Sound on Sound contributor

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by Tui

You mentioned "op-amps specified by Mr Jim Williams". Jim says his unit is "based on the top-o-line BurrBrown PCM1792A DAC. This one uses 4 of them in a dual mono configuration." What does "dual mono configuration" mean, in this context?

Well, basically you're looking to buy the same unit that I bought, which is the "PCM1794A Dual “Bare Beast” With ADA4898-1-2 “Gearslutz” Unit" set for 220V.

This model uses two PCM1794A DACs and sums the two channels in each converter into one. So it used one stereo DAC for the left channel and one DAC for the right channel. It's a technical design that lowers noise and distortion.

Just email Ross and tell him that you want the 220V version. You will have to buy an electrical socket and screw it on yourself.


Cheers
Fred

Sound on Sound contributor

[Tui]

Originally Posted by frenzy

Just email Ross and tell him that you want the 220V version. You will have to buy an electrical socket and screw it on yourself.

Thanks, Fred. I just emailed Ross.

BTW, did you mean I need to install an electrical socket or rather a plug?

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by Tui

Thanks, Fred. I just emailed Ross.

BTW, did you mean I need to install an electrical socket or rather a plug?

Sorry, I meant plug...

[Tui]

Originally Posted by frenzy

Sorry, I meant plug...

Thanks again.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by frenzy

I use a Presonus Central Station as well and it's a highly transparent and very useful unit...

Hi there, our findings are not that it's highly transparent...but very useful yes. Bang for the buck, hard to replace it and even still, the options and remote are great.

I can assure you though when going head to head with other monitor controllers in our internal testing, it's not highly transparent but good enough for most indeed.

War

[pieter k]

Can any users of the RMA DAC comment on the quality of the headphone amp?

[TankT34]

Thanks a lot Fred for very informative reply !

[SoZo]

Originally Posted by frenzy

I use a Presonus Central Station as well and it's a highly transparent and very useful unit, but you description of the built-in DAC is accurate - it's the only thing on the Central Station not worth using. I'd say it's on par with an old Sound Blaster sound card...minus the noise. ;D


Cheers
Fred

Sound On Sound contributor

I have to agree... its transparent but the DAC was soooo bad I got rid of it fast.

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by warhead

Hi there, our findings are not that it's highly transparent...but very useful yes. Bang for the buck, hard to replace it and even still, the options and remote are great.

I can assure you though when going head to head with other monitor controllers in our internal testing, it's not highly transparent but good enough for most indeed.

Damn, you are right, man!

It's been a couple of years since I compared it to the direct outputs of my DAC, so I dug out a A Design ATTY (passive attenuator) and hooked up my main speakers to it - last time I did the test I didn't have the Questeds. Like you've pointed out there is a different in sound, hmm, guess the ATTY will be my volume control for the main speakers from now on. The Central Station adds a little bit of low-end mud, adds some harshness in the mid-range, shaves off some transients and diffuses the sound stage a little bit. It's not much but definitely audible when doing an A/B comparison.

Which monitor controller did you end up buying? My Christmas wish-list just got an extra line.

Thanks for making me test my setup! :D


Cheers
Fred

Sound On Sound contributor

[Tui]

Originally Posted by frenzy

Well, basically you're looking to buy the same unit that I bought, which is the "PCM1794A Dual “Bare Beast” With ADA4898-1-2 “Gearslutz” Unit" set for 220V.

OK, I just ordered one of those.

I wonder, what type of shipping does he use - UPS, FedEx, USPS..?

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by Tui

OK, I just ordered one of those.

I wonder, what type of shipping does he use - UPS, FedEx, USPS..?

My units was shipped by USPS because it's the cheapest alternative for International postage.


Cheers
Fred

[Tui]

Originally Posted by frenzy

My units was shipped by USPS because it's the cheapest alternative for International postage.


Cheers
Fred

I see, thanks. Does USPS have a tracking facility? (Sorry for asking so many questions, I live far away from the US).

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by Tui

I see, thanks. Does USPS have a tracking facility? (Sorry for asking so many questions, I live far away from the US).

Yes they do. When Ross has built and shipped you unit, ask him for the tracking number.


Fred

[Tui]

Originally Posted by frenzy

Yes they do. When Ross has built and shipped you unit, ask him for the tracking number.


Fred

Thanks! Ross (or rather, "Mabry") Martin did send me a confirmation mail. I guess now I'll have to wait for couple of weeks until they've manufactured the unit.