SSL X-Desk Connections Help! Please advise!

[CJ1973]

any SSL X-Desk users? bummmpppp ))

[deft_bonz]

Not sure if I got it correctly. But my first idea would be

1.) Record the channel outputs. Thus you'd need them on the patchbay.
2.) Whilst recording you'll be still able to mix.

Connect the DB25 for all the channel outputs (direct outs) to the patchbay top row. Just beneath it, connect your RME inputs. This way all channels would be constantly connected to your RME. If you half normalise your patchbay bottom row, the patchbay signal flow (from channel outs to RME ins) will be disconnected once you plug a patch cable from another source in.


But if you need 14 different channels (8 for summing plus 6 for mics and synths), then you need to use the Alternative inputs. Then:

1.) Connect the RME outputs to the alternative inputs. Press the "Alt" button in the cue send section. There you have a level and a pan control for summing. Finally push the "Cue to mix" button in the mix section. Et voilà summing done.
2.) At the same time you'll still have the 8 channel inputs on your faders, plus their inserts. Their channel outputs can be still used for recording. See above.

Hope this helps.

[PTP]

The X-Desk is a real versatile mixer with lots of possibilities. To get the most out of it you'll need a properly setup patchbay.

[CJ1973]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

But if you need 14 different channels (8 for summing plus 6 for mics and synths), then you need to use the Alternative inputs. Then:

1.) Connect the RME outputs to the alternative inputs. Press the "Alt" button in the cue send section. There you have a level and a pan control for summing. Finally push the "Cue to mix" button in the mix section. Et voilà summing done.
2.) At the same time you'll still have the 8 channel inputs on your faders, plus their inserts. Their channel outputs can be still used for recording. See above.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. I will look to trying this option. I have a question in that, with this, assuming I technically have now
1. 8 RME output summed into ALT
2. 8 channel inputs + inserts

would I still be able to:
Sum the outputs into ALT and then send them to some master outboard fx, maybe a C2 buss comp and Record the mix into the DAW, whilst being able to record 8 channels of input and adding some insert send/ret on the SSL on some of the channels?

[CJ1973]

I would also appreciate it if someone would actually re-do my excel patchbay set up and re-post it. I am not using the 'expansion' aspect on the X-desk as I am not looking to do that at the moment. Therefore, i would appreciate an update of my patchbay set up to optimise the SSL set up if possible.

Thanks so much!!

[PTP]

You could but you would't be able to monitor your summed alt channels.

[PTP]

I just thought about it and there might be a trick to get around it.

The alt ins are summed to your cue outs. Send those to your outboard processing. Take the outputs of those into your master ins ret. Press the sum-switch on the insert mastersection. This function is normally used for parallel compression on the 2-buss. Your line inputs with inserts are now automaticly routed to your main mix bus and summed with your summed alt ins. Make sure your cue to mix function is set to off. The only downside to this setup is that you don't have level control over your summed alt ins after the processing, and the cue out level would no affect you dynamics....To get around that you could use one of your FX return inputs and route those to your main mix.

[PTP]

Originally Posted by CJ1973

I would also appreciate it if someone would actually re-do my excel patchbay set up and re-post it. I am not using the 'expansion' aspect on the X-desk as I am not looking to do that at the moment. Therefore, i would appreciate an update of my patchbay set up to optimise the SSL set up if possible.

Thanks so much!!

I don't have excel but here's how I would setup the patchbay:

1-8
TOP outputs of preamps/channelstrips
BOT line inputs of Xdesk

9-16
TOP outputs of FF800
BOT alt inputs of Xdesk

17-24
TOP direct outs of Xdesk
BOT inputs of FF800

25-32
TOP Xdesk sends (not normalised)
BOT Xdesk returns

33-40
TOP master outs Xdesk (not normalised)
BOT master ins Xdesk

[CJ1973]

Thank you so much!!!
I will also try this option. The bottom line is it looks like the SSL is a fantastic piece provided it's put to optimum usage.
If there are any other thoughts or options to optimise this set up, I would appreciate all inputs out there. If someone has a specific use even, id love to see the patch bay set up as well as how the usage is.

So in summary, are we all in agreement that the X-Desk can concurrently/simultaneously, perform the following functions....

1. Record 8 channels of audio (mic/line)
2. Sum 8 channels of outputs from RME (can it do more simultaneously whilst recording?)
3. Sum whilst recording and send back into daw....
4. Use channel inserts and master inserts on the above during the process?

Thank you!

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by CJ1973

Thank you so much!!!
I will also try this option. The bottom line is it looks like the SSL is a fantastic piece provided it's put to optimum usage.
If there are any other thoughts or options to optimise this set up, I would appreciate all inputs out there. If someone has a specific use even, id love to see the patch bay set up as well as how the usage is.

So in summary, are we all in agreement that the X-Desk can concurrently/simultaneously, perform the following functions....

1. Record 8 channels of audio (mic/line)
2. Sum 8 channels of outputs from RME (can it do more simultaneously whilst recording?)
3. Sum whilst recording and send back into daw....
4. Use channel inserts and master inserts on the above during the process?

Thank you!

Almost yes

Inserts only in the channel inputs, none in the alt inputs. You would need to "insert" your outboard thru the patchbay BEFORE going into the Alt In.

It can sum more. Just use the two FX returns and route them to the cue send, which you use for summing. That'll give you 12 channels for summing, 8 mono + 2 stereo.

This option can also be used for a headphone mix. Do the headphone mix with FX1 or FX2, patch the respective output to the FX return. It's not very flexible, because you can't change the volumes on the Alt Ins. Then drive the headphone preamp with the master ins send or split the cue output if you need the master insert for something else.

[PTP]

That is correct.

As I stated earlier, the X-Desk is really versatile. Just wire it up properly through a patchbay so all ins and outs are accessable and think beyond the basic 8-ch mixer idea. The only limits are your own imagination. Take your time to study the routing possibilities. You'll find a way that works for your way of working.

I use two cascaded X-Desks and I'm super happy with them, two of these babies expands the possibilities even more. It really helped increasing my workflow a lot!

[CJ1973]

Thanks so much for your input folks. I really appreciate it!
I am unsure if you had a chance to check out my patchbay as well as other set ups, but because I have used some of my patches on my patchbay for outboard, maybe what I should do is use a dedicated pb for my SSL whilst using another pb for everything else....as a final note, I wanted to just sum up my pb here (like PTP has in text) so everyone gets what I am looking to do (this pb is in complete non-normal mode, but i could optimise it by having some half normalled etc). Please let me know your thoughts if ok!!

1-8
TOP 4 mic outs / 4 line outs
BT SSL Line In (db25 to db25)

9-16
TOP Preamps Outputs (db25 to XLRF)
BT Preamps Inputs (db25 to XLRM)

17-24
TOP Insert Out (db25 to XLRF for API, CL1B, )
BT Insert In (db25 to XLRM for API, CL1B ..)

25-32
TOP FX Out (db25 to TRS for SPX990, SDD2000, Lexicon, Pedals etc)
BT FX In (db25 to TRS for SPX990, SDD2000, Lexicon, Pedals etc)

33-40
TOP SSL Insert Send (db25@SSL to db25@patchbay)
BT SSL Insert Ret (db25@SSL to db25@patchbay)

41-48
TOP SSL Center Out (to Master FX, Buss comp)
BT SSL Center In (External In, Master Mix Insert Ret)

Other Hook-ups
1. RME Outputs to SSL Alt in (direct hook ups, no patchbay, by TRS to db25)
2. SSL Channel Out to RME FF800 in (direct hook ups, no patchbay, by DB25 to TRS)

My idea with this set up is that it gives me some room for adding some more Insert outboards, fx outboards etc. Also, it gives me the option to patch any input (mic or line) into any preamp or eq/compressor combination before sending it into the system.....

Thoughts would be appreciated!!! Thanks so much!

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by CJ1973

1-8
TOP 4 mic outs / 4 line outs
BT SSL Line In (db25 to db25)

9-16
TOP Preamps Outputs (db25 to XLRF)
BT Preamps Inputs (db25 to XLRM)

Looks fine to me, expect those.

1.) I recommend to connect all mic signals directly to the preamp inputs. I prefer low level signals to be connected as directly and as short as possible.

2.) Generally: Connect the inputs and outputs on the patchbay in a way, that you are able to normalise the signal flows that you use the most time. Then you won't have to patch them manually everytime.

>>> e.g. preamp outs top, SSL line in bottom, half normalised bottom row.

3.) I'd also connect the alt in to your patchbay. That'll give you the most flexibility. If you do so: RME out top, Alt In bottom, half normalised bottom row.

4.) I'd put the outboard gear on a 2nd PB, depending on the amount, just beneath the SSL insert sends and returns. You may even want to think about this idea (see point 2)

PB 1 17-24 (half normalised bottom row)
TOP SSL Insert Send (db25 to XLRF for API, CL1B, )
BT Insert In (db25 to XLRM for API, CL1B ..)

PB 2 17-24 (half normalised bottom row)
TOP Insert Out (db25 to XLRF for API, CL1B, )
BT SSL Insert Ret (db25@SSL to db25@patchbay)

Very helpful if you want to have your outboard gear on the same channel very often or even all the time. With the patchbay you are still able to repatch everything. The patchbay's main goal is to save you time with the standard signal flow, but still leave you the possibility to reconnect easily.

[CJ1973]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

Looks fine to me, expect those.


PB 1 17-24 (half normalised bottom row)
TOP SSL Insert Send (db25 to XLRF for API, CL1B, )
BT Insert In (db25 to XLRM for API, CL1B ..)

PB 2 17-24 (half normalised bottom row)
TOP Insert Out (db25 to XLRF for API, CL1B, )
BT SSL Insert Ret (db25@SSL to db25@patchbay)

The patchbay's main goal is to save you time with the standard signal flow, but still leave you the possibility to reconnect easily.

Hi
Thanks so much for taking the time to explain and break it down. I appreciate it.
I wanted some further clarification on the use of the two patch bays...
Could you please tell me how the use of two patchbays may help me during tracking as well as mixing with the use of the outboards..
With the above I'm unsure how to do it because it appears i may be doubling up on the XLRF connections...
Would PB2 have on top insert outs (Db and XLRM) which are half normalled with the SSL insert returns?
Assuming this is the case, I see it helping a lot during tracking. However, during mixing, what would I do? Would I just patch the RME outs to go to the insert sends and then return into ALT input? Then send cue mix to perhaps stereo compressor etc?
Thanks!!

[deft_bonz]

The amount of connections stays the same.

Yes, I'd suggest the connections on PB2 to be half normalled from the insert outs (I guess you the outputs of your outboard gear) to the SSL inputs. No need to patch them all the time. That's especially very time saving, if you always have e.g. API on channel 1, CL1b on channel 2, etc.

In my scenario you would need to patch all 8 RME outputs to the channel inputs, because they'd be half normalled to the ALT inputs. Then you can use all 3 sends for FX or outboard etc.

The patchbay should be a time saver and at the same time it should give you the flexibility to change any routing instantly. That's why you need to plan ahead very well.

[CJ1973]

Thanks again. I appreciate it!!

I am curious to know about the whole 'Insert' option.
In general, would you group vocal mono compressors, eq etc in the 'insert' section along with fx such as reverb and delay? Could you please explain to me how the inserts (vocal comp/eq/de-ess) may sit during 'tracking' compared to the usage of dynamics in mixing (comp/eq etc) as well as the use of FX (rev/delay) during mixing on each of tracks that are to be summed?

Thanks!

[CJ1973]

ok so I actually did all the patching etc and I have the following working:

8 channels of mic/line input
8 channels of summing through alt in

However, I cannot record on a particular channel without actually switching the 'Alt' button off.... I tried the 'cue to mix' and it still is not helping!!
Is there something I am missing here?

Thanks!

[deft_bonz]

What do you want to record? I guess it's one of the mic or synth that are connected into the line input.

To record a mic or synth connect the appropriate channel output to a RME input. To record the mix, I suppose you know how to connect that

You have to be aware of that only the line inputs have channel outputs. The ALT inputs don't have that, neither do they have inserts. They're "just" meant as extra channels during mixing.

There is just one thing, that I'm not sure of and haven't tested it yet: The channel outputs could be placed before the insert. This means any EQ, compression, etc. made thru the insert won't be there on the channel output. But I'm just guessing and there is no signal flow chart in the manual. Maybe someone else can clear this up.

[CJ1973]

Thanks again for your help!
To test the system out, I composed a 'beat' and sent them to different channels 1-8 into the SSL-XDesk. They all work and 'sum'.
I have the following on the x-desk being used to sum my beat
Alt-in1-Kick
Alt-in2-Snare
Alt-in3-Bass
Alt-in4-Vocals
Alt-in-5/6-Loop
Alt-in-7/8-Synths

What Im trying to do is to set my mic input to go to CHIP4 to do some vocals on another channel, but I have to disable the 'Alt-In' inorder to this....Why is that? My understanding was that I could sum the 8 tracks on Alt-in Channels 1-8 and still be able to record another 8....Could you please tell me what Im doing wrong?

Thanks!!

[deft_bonz]

So you have the following mic signal connection:

Mic > preamp in > preamp out > SSL channel input 4
RME outs > ALT ins > ALT button pushed

If you want to record your mic signal on channel 4, connect its channel output to a RME input.

Check the installation guide from SSL, page 38 shows a setup how you want it (I believe). Make sure you connected everything right.



http://www.solidstatelogic.com/docs/...tall_Guide.pdf

[Jim@SSL]

There could be a simple way here.

Connect your mic pres direct to LINE inputs 1-6
Connect your Fireface outputs to ALT inputs 1-8
Connect DIRECT OUT 1-6 from the X-Desk to inputs 1-6 on the FF
Connect MIX out from the X-desk to input 7-8 on the FF

Connect mic to mic pre
Select LINE (i.e. do not select ALT) at the top of channels 1-6
Use direct outs to record mics
Press ALT on the CUE buses and CUE TO MIX on the centre section
8 outputs from FF go through volume and pan on the CUE
Alll inputs run live to MIX bus
All mic run direct out into your DAW

If you then just want to "mix" the outputs of your DAW, select ALT at the top of each channel and then use your inserts on the from-DAW signals

Then you only need a patchbay for the insert points of the channels on the desk.

Why make it more complicated than a traditional "tack and mix" inline setup? :-)

[deft_bonz]

hahahaha... true! be careful which ALT-button you push. there are two of them

[CJ1973]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

There could be a simple way here.

Connect your mic pres direct to LINE inputs 1-6
Connect your Fireface outputs to ALT inputs 1-8
Connect DIRECT OUT 1-6 from the X-Desk to inputs 1-6 on the FF
Connect MIX out from the X-desk to input 7-8 on the FF

Connect mic to mic pre
Select LINE (i.e. do not select ALT) at the top of channels 1-6
Use direct outs to record mics
Press ALT on the CUE buses and CUE TO MIX on the centre section
8 outputs from FF go through volume and pan on the CUE
Alll inputs run live to MIX bus
All mic run direct out into your DAW

If you then just want to "mix" the outputs of your DAW, select ALT at the top of each channel and then use your inserts on the from-DAW signals

Then you only need a patchbay for the insert points of the channels on the desk.

Why make it more complicated than a traditional "tack and mix" inline setup? :-)

Hi Jim
Thanks.
I started doing the patchbay thing and feel I could set it up that way at this stage.
However, you mention about sending the mix buss to channel 7&8 of RME..
What if I end up using 8 preamps at any one time and want to hear 8 channels of output from my rme into ssl... How could I sum these 8 channels, add insert etc and send it back into daw as a two track mixdown?
Thanks!

[deft_bonz]

You would need another extra 2 DA

[CJ1973]

Also Jim, with your thoughts and ideas, what you are saying is that it's one or the other, meaning either record line in or mix/sum through ALT?
The typical issue im looking to avoid is that I could compose a song, have the summing with ALT inputs use 8 channels of it as mentioned previously and if I want to track vocals, then I really have to turn off the ALT button for that particular channel, not hear what I had already assigned on that particular channel during summing, record the vocals and then turn ALT back on?

[CJ1973]

bump....

[Jim@SSL]

"Also Jim, with your thoughts and ideas, what you are saying is that it's one or the other, meaning either record line in or mix/sum through ALT?
"

Each "channel" on the X-Desk has 2 inputs, 2 independent volumes and pans. One is on the fader, the other is on the CUE bus. You can record through line in AND sum through the CUE bus putting both into the MIX bus at the same time.Think of it like a traditional big desk which has a "big fader" and "small fader" setup. You can flip the inputs between the fader (big fader) and volume pot (small fader) at any time, but still have both going to the MIX bus.

The reason for this specific suggestion is that the CUE bus (small fader) sources its signal from either;
What is selected at the top of the channel (LINE or ALT inputs), or
Direct friom the ALT input.

You can't have ALT selected at the top of the channel and then have "LINE" selected on your CUE bus. This is not possible, hence my suggestion to hard-wire your FF outputs to the ALT inputs (instead of the LINE inputs). Think about it, why move patch cables about to change a routing when you could just press a button instead?

"What if I end up using 8 preamps at any one time and want to hear 8 channels of output from my rme into ssl"

You can do this, but if you want to be able to record 8 direct outputs from the desk (i.e. 8 mics) then you don't have enough AD converters in your Fireface to also record back in a stereo mix as well as 8 individual mics channels.

[CJ1973]

Hi Jim

Just wanted to firstly thank you for your advise and product.
I am definitely having great use for it. I am using it for tracking and monitoring/controller. It's a simple set up for what I want (6 inputs from my preamps during tracking) and 2 outs for monitoring and a thorough monitoring set up.

I have one further question. During tracking, I have 2 outputs (7&8) from my RME going into 7&8 Alt inputs of the SSL. I have SSL inputs 1-6 for tracking.
what I want to know if it's possible to have a Reverb unit hooked up to the SSL with the FX send set up and actually give the vocalist some reverb, without the reverb actually being recorded and only the dry signal recorded. I am looking to have a latency free set up during tracking, so wondering if this is possible.

Thanks in advance.!!

[CJ1973]

bump....