Not quite a U47 but...
Old 21st February 2012
  #61
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
Hey Rick -

I have an ADK Custom Shop 47 with a Blue capsule. I really like this mic, I put a Sowter transformer in it and it has consistently done well against much more expensive 47s Andreas Grosser, Wunder GT, BeesNeez T1.

The ADK/Blue has a really nice top the only thing I would like to augment about this mic is a little more low end. So I am interested to see what the F47 capsule will do. I'll do a comparison for folks once I get it.
Old 21st February 2012
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Isn't the original question about the u47 not the fet47?
No it wasn't. That's why I always bring that up in these generic U47 discussions. There are far more fet U47's out there than tube versions. Both are called U47's too.

So, how much $$$ are you guys getting paid to justify the cost of these multi-thousand dollar U47 or clone mics?

BTW, this isn't about 414's, start another thread.
Old 21st February 2012
  #63
Not vintage? Burn it.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Really... I'd pay that all day long and twice on Sundays... the capsule is worth more than $900. I would say the full system [if working properly] is worth more like $2k each... then again, I'm not trying to lowball the guy and buy them so whadda I know.

Peace
I didn't know Telefunken employees over pay for their own mics.
Old 21st February 2012
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
No it wasn't. That's why I always bring that up in these generic U47 discussions. There are far more fet U47's out there than tube versions. Both are called U47's too.

So, how much $$$ are you guys getting paid to justify the cost of these multi-thousand dollar U47 or clone mics?
Don't be disingenuous. The OP was clearly referring to the tube U47.

-R
Old 21st February 2012
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
No it wasn't. That's why I always bring that up in these generic U47 discussions. There are far more fet U47's out there than tube versions. Both are called U47's too.

So, how much $$$ are you guys getting paid to justify the cost of these multi-thousand dollar U47 or clone mics?

BTW, this isn't about 414's, start another thread.
Pedantry is the last refuge of the witless, FYI.
Old 22nd February 2012
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Pedantry is the last refuge of the witless, FYI.
That's brilliant, matey! May I use that?
Old 22nd February 2012
  #67
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Sort of like trying to push down ping pong balls into water with your thumb.
Like Following your posts?

They keep flying to the surface!!!
Old 22nd February 2012
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Pike View Post
That's brilliant, matey! May I use that?
Of course - but it's not mine, I stole it from somewhere else! But if you google it, it's just this post that comes up.....!
Old 22nd February 2012
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Don't be disingenuous. The OP was clearly referring to the tube U47.

-R
Not so clear. Read again. He says U47 in the thread title and post.

Never mind. I don't want to sound pendantical and witless at the same time.
Old 22nd February 2012
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Not so clear. Read again. He says U47 in the thread title and post.

Never mind. I don't want to sound pedantic (spell fix) and witless at the same time.
Jim, a man of your knowledge and expertise could never sound either pedantic or witless... let alone both at the same time!
Old 27th February 2012
  #71
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414EBs

Just sayin' got mine for $500/each. Yes, I've seen them go for near $2000. It's always taking a chance. Mine didn't pass the fog test and went to the shop for cleaning/repairs.
Old 7th March 2012
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianellefson View Post
I'll be the weirdo bad guy here and just say ... I don't care what sounds close to a U47. I just wanna use mics that really capture the source I'm recording. If it ends up being an SM57 then so be it. No offense or anything like that.
not weird or bad, but completely pointless and off topic. Looking for a U47 sound is a pretty good idea imho. Certainly a more likely pasttime than "Can I find a mic that sounds as close as possible to an sm57?". U47s are old, expensive, and hard to come by. SM57s are affordable, easy to find, and not as sought after.

Anyway - I'm interested in seeing how quickly the copy mikes deviate from the true-ish U47 type of sound as prices decrease. Like some of these more affordable mics are noted as sounding good and vaguely in the right family but certainly "nothing like a U47" and so on.

And I'm also interested in the wunder mic - it sounds really promising for a pricier purchase.
Old 7th March 2012
  #73
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelley View Post
And I'm also interested in the wunder mic - it sounds really promising for a pricier purchase.
+1 on this. I've been wundering about that mic a LOT!
Old 7th March 2012
  #74
Gear addict
 

I'm happy as can be with my Peluso 2247.
Old 8th March 2012
  #75
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I have over 200 mics, including an original Telefunken 47 from Dave Smiths (R.I.P.) vintage collection but if you are looking for great sounding "cheap" mics some that i would suggest are the JZ v47 and v67. Also the AT 4047.
Old 8th March 2012
  #76
Gear Head
 

Octavamod k47h
Old 18th March 2012
  #77
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Interesting things said by Dirk Brauner about U47:
(from: Brauner VM1: Consequence of an Experience)


What made you decide to build a microphone?
"I was using that U47 microphone all the time, and I loved it. I wanted another one, so that I could have a matched pair. That’s when I found out what a good quality U47 costs!I didn’t want to spend the money on another U47, and started to think that the U47 could be improved. I wanted a mic with a lower noise floor than a U47. And a variable pattern control, so that I could fine-tune the frequency response of the mic. A dream came to me that I would build the mic I wanted.

I started looking into the mics that I loved. The M49 has a variable pattern control, but I didn’t like the proximity effect, or the transient response. I thought the U47 sounded better, but it didn’t have the variable pattern control, or the noise floor. I wanted a mic that wasn’t linear, but didn’t sound EQ’ed. I wanted a mic that was fast and had could handle transients like a small-diaphragm, but it needed to be smooth and warm like a large-diaphragm. I wanted to have a variable pattern control so that I could sit in the control room and fine-tune the response of the mic. So I decided to build my own mic. I started out with an M7 capsule like the one in my U47. I called Neumann and ordered an M7 replacement capsule. It didn’t sound like my U47 at all. You see the M7 has a PVC diaphragm, and what happens to the old capsules is that the capsule gets old and rigid, and that introduces harmonic distortion and a slight compression effect.

It softens the peaks.

Right, it compresses because it can’t move like it’s supposed to, and that also adds this harmonic distortion. Sometimes it sounds good, like my U47. Sometimes it sounds bad. But the new capsule didn’t have that sound at all. I didn’t like it.

There were other problems with trying to get the sound I wanted to hear. All kinds of things happen to tube gear when it ages. The capacitors dry out and lose their capacitance. The resistors wear, and the resistance increases. This can be beautiful. Or bad."




It explain well why all originals U47 are selling for lots of $
Just like old wines, some things can't be replicated
Or someone will sell capsules with some high tech aging process?
Old 19th March 2012
  #78
At the risk of sounding witless, I just got a new 6 um k-47 capsule from Microphone parts. It is different sounding next to their 3 um k-47 capsules. The top end is damped above 10k hz, the low end is bigger, the low mids more smooth and powerful. It still retains the 3~5k hz rise. It also has much improved rear axis rejection, the 3 um versions are almost omni in comparison.

Both have their places.
Old 19th March 2012
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIDBILL View Post
It explain well why all originals U47 are selling for lots of $
Just like old wines, some things can't be replicated
Or someone will sell capsules with some high tech aging process?
I'm not sure I buy the idea that it's the aged degeneration of the vintage mics that makes them sound good.

-R
Old 19th March 2012
  #80
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
I'm not sure I buy the idea that it's the aged degeneration of the vintage mics that makes them sound good.

-R
Agreed, that wouldn't explain why they sounded so good in the 50's and 60's, which you can still hear in recordings from back then.
Old 19th March 2012
  #81
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 

Of course some old wines turn to vinegar over time... just like some old mics are complete shite. It depends on the unit, it depends how the unit couples with the source, it depends on a lot of things besides age and what's inside.

At some point it seems that wine gets so old and so expensive that nobody opens the bottles anymore... they just buy and sell them. Make no mistake, that crap is starting to happen to a lot of the "classic" mics of yesteryear too.

Peace
Old 19th March 2012
  #82
Lives for gear
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIDBILL View Post
Interesting things said by Dirk Brauner about U47:
(from: Brauner VM1: Consequence of an Experience)


What made you decide to build a microphone?
"I was using that U47 microphone all the time, and I loved it. I wanted another one, so that I could have a matched pair. That’s when I found out what a good quality U47 costs!I didn’t want to spend the money on another U47, and started to think that the U47 could be improved. I wanted a mic with a lower noise floor than a U47. And a variable pattern control, so that I could fine-tune the frequency response of the mic. A dream came to me that I would build the mic I wanted.

I started looking into the mics that I loved. The M49 has a variable pattern control, but I didn’t like the proximity effect, or the transient response. I thought the U47 sounded better, but it didn’t have the variable pattern control, or the noise floor. I wanted a mic that wasn’t linear, but didn’t sound EQ’ed. I wanted a mic that was fast and had could handle transients like a small-diaphragm, but it needed to be smooth and warm like a large-diaphragm. I wanted to have a variable pattern control so that I could sit in the control room and fine-tune the response of the mic. So I decided to build my own mic. I started out with an M7 capsule like the one in my U47. I called Neumann and ordered an M7 replacement capsule. It didn’t sound like my U47 at all. You see the M7 has a PVC diaphragm, and what happens to the old capsules is that the capsule gets old and rigid, and that introduces harmonic distortion and a slight compression effect.

It softens the peaks.

Right, it compresses because it can’t move like it’s supposed to, and that also adds this harmonic distortion. Sometimes it sounds good, like my U47. Sometimes it sounds bad. But the new capsule didn’t have that sound at all. I didn’t like it.

There were other problems with trying to get the sound I wanted to hear. All kinds of things happen to tube gear when it ages. The capacitors dry out and lose their capacitance. The resistors wear, and the resistance increases. This can be beautiful. Or bad."




It explain well why all originals U47 are selling for lots of $
Just like old wines, some things can't be replicated
Or someone will sell capsules with some high tech aging process?
That (the story told in the original article following the link, paragraph "the man behind...") sounds like a fairytale or a hollywood blockbuster story.
He didn't know what a U47 is, yet, at the time he got it as a present, he was designing their studio.. Right.
Old 19th March 2012
  #83
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
At the risk of sounding witless, I just got a new 6 um k-47 capsule from Microphone parts. It is different sounding next to their 3 um k-47 capsules. The top end is damped above 10k hz, the low end is bigger, the low mids more smooth and powerful. It still retains the 3~5k hz rise. It also has much improved rear axis rejection, the 3 um versions are almost omni in comparison.

Both have their places.
Yep, and that "RK7" has a 32 mm diameter.
Very clever.
Drop in fit for the countless Chinese mics with the infamous, stock 32 mmm K67 knock-off.
And Rode mics with the funny capsule holders.
NT-1 anyone?
You know, the one with the circuit design made by that witless guy. ;-)
I'd like to hear it with an RK7 (and grill job.)
No, not quite a (tube) U-47.



Henk
Old 20th March 2012
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
At the risk of sounding witless, I just got a new 6 um k-47 capsule from Microphone parts. It is different sounding next to their 3 um k-47 capsules. The top end is damped above 10k hz, the low end is bigger, the low mids more smooth and powerful. It still retains the 3~5k hz rise. It also has much improved rear axis rejection, the 3 um versions are almost omni in comparison.
...that 32mm brass K47 capsule has been my choice for some time (I've been getting them direct from China)...I am currently testing one in a Stellar CM-6 at Dave Thomas' recommendation (he developed that capsule with the Chinese manufacturer), replacing the stock 35mm K67 capsule with nice results...I prefer this 6-micron mylar version...but I give microphoneparts.com props for making all these affordable capsule options so accessible...
Attached Thumbnails
Not quite a U47 but...-k47capsule.jpg   Not quite a U47 but...-cm6wk47capsule2.jpg  
Old 20th March 2012
  #85
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Quote:
I prefer this 6-micron mylar version...but I give microphoneparts.com props for making all these affordable capsule options so accessible...
I don't understand the "but".




Henk
Old 20th March 2012
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
I don't understand the "but".
...I like big buts and I cannot lie...
Old 20th March 2012
  #87
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, I saw that one comin'.

But...........................
Never mind.



Henk
Old 20th March 2012
  #88
Lives for gear
 

OK then, I'll try again.
Is the RK7 membrane not Mylar?




Henk
Old 20th March 2012
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
OK then, I'll try again.
Is the RK7 membrane not Mylar?
...yes, the capsule both I and Jim Williams were referring to is what microphoneparts.com calls it's "RK7" capsule...Dave Thomas of Advanced Audio has been offering that capsule for some time now (Dave's Advanced Audio C12, K67 and K47 capsules are all 6-micron)...the RK7 originates from a different manufacturer in China than the 34mm RK-47 and RK-12 that were the initial offerings of that website...as Jim commented, I too thought that 32mm capsule had a smoother, fuller low/low-mid response than the larger 34mm capsule with the 3-micron mylar...from what I can see, it appears microphoneparts.com is now offering capsules originating from 3 different manufacturers in China, with 3, 5 and 6-micron mylar diaphragms...and the quality of these inexpensive capsule options continues to improve...
Old 21st March 2012
  #90
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Yes it does.
Microphoneparts just sent me a raincheck coupon for another 47 capsule. I love my modded sp1 with the 47 capsule and some upgraded caps. I gave it a basketmod too. It's no u47 but it certainly sounds on par with my hm7u and I love that mic.
Props to Jim, who dropped some tips on the mod circuits.
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