U 195 vs. U 87

[cap217]

Can someone compare these two mics? From what I have read the 195 is kind of like a U87. Is the U195 a mic to replace, compliment, or a "budget" version of a U87?

I have an older vintage nice U87 from Disney and love it but now looking for something else. I hear a lot about these but I dont know if I could turn to a $1,000 mic instead of somether 3-4x the price. I could understand if I did not have a U87 but I do....

I want something dark, wark, and rich... actually I have used the MXL V69 and it was pretty amazing, but I still have an issue with a $300 mic if I have a great mic locker avalible to me.

Let me know!

[cap217]

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[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by cap217

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Well, just to start a discussion, the U87 is a multipattern dual-diaphragm microphone, probably the most famous Neumann made (if not as legendary as the 47), and costs $2800 for a new model (I am not sure if you have a vintage model or one of the "Ai" models).

The Soundelux U195 is a single-diaphragm, single-pattern (cardioid), FET microphone, and costs $1100. These are the differences as I know them. I don't think that the U195 was really designed to mimic the sound of a U87, but I could be wrong; the best person to ask about that is probably David Bock, who designs the Soundelux mics; I think he has posted on this forum before, so check his postings out for the best information.
(or check out his website: Soundelux Mics)

Otherwise, I do think that a U195 is a good purchase and IMHO it will stand up against other more pricey microphones. I really like the build of the Soundelux mics and many people have posted here about the U195 positively.

Just IMHO, I would rather have a U195 than a U87; that might sound crazy, but that's JMHO. As an aside, I am not a big fan of the current trend in Neumann price-gouging. You are paying more for the name today than ever with Neumann (look at the price of the M147... it was at $1400 as recently as two years ago, now try to find one new for less than $2200...(and if you do find one for less than $2k, let me know)).

Anyway I'm not an expert but I thought I would start the discussion.
Hope this helps a bit.

[Dot]

cap217, if you're looking for something in the $1K+ neighborhood that's dark, warm, and rich, the Peluso 22 47 will more than do the job. http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/2247.html

I wouldn't call the U195 a "complement" to the U87 and I wouldn't call it a "replacement". It's more neutral. Doesn't have that Neumann "sheen" in the upper mids. It's a nice mic, but if you have an older 87 and are looking for a darker complement, I think that a 195 is not the move.

[cap217]

Thats what I am looking for. My 87 is great and a vintage so no "ai" here. I really felt that the 195 would be a replacement but wanted to hear it from someone else. I have other great mics and access to really anything I need... 47's, c12's, 251's etc....

But I want to own the mic myself. So I think I am going to go tube. Been thinking about the 22 47 but I really need to demo some units. I was thinking of another C12 vr for a stereo pair but nobody likes these mics at all! Then I thought of the M147 but not sure I want another Neumann. All I know is I used Rick Ocasic's Fet 49 and I think that was the nicest mic I ever heard!!!! I had it side by side to a nice U 47, 2 different U 87's, and A M149.... WOW!!! But he already had it sould to an engineer at the old dangerous studios.

[briefcasemanx]

the u195 is not a dark mic at all IMO.

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by cap217

Thats what I am looking for. My 87 is great and a vintage so no "ai" here. I really felt that the 195 would be a replacement but wanted to hear it from someone else. I have other great mics and access to really anything I need... 47's, c12's, 251's etc....

But I want to own the mic myself. So I think I am going to go tube. Been thinking about the 22 47 but I really need to demo some units. I was thinking of another C12 vr for a stereo pair but nobody likes these mics at all! Then I thought of the M147 but not sure I want another Neumann. All I know is I used Rick Ocasic's Fet 49 and I think that was the nicest mic I ever heard!!!! I had it side by side to a nice U 47, 2 different U 87's, and A M149.... WOW!!! But he already had it sould to an engineer at the old dangerous studios.

Check out the Lawson's... if you are going "tube" and you want a GREAT mic that is also reasonably priced:

Lawson USA

Or for more $$, the Korby's:

Korby Audio

Remember, JMVHO.

[mcballs]

Originally Posted by cap217

Can someone compare these two mics? From what I have read the 195 is kind of like a U87. Is the U195 a mic to replace, compliment, or a "budget" version of a U87?

I have an older vintage nice U87 from Disney and love it but now looking for something else. I hear a lot about these but I dont know if I could turn to a $1,000 mic instead of somether 3-4x the price. I could understand if I did not have a U87 but I do....

I want something dark, wark, and rich... actually I have used the MXL V69 and it was pretty amazing, but I still have an issue with a $300 mic if I have a great mic locker avalible to me.

Let me know!

Listen to the clips on this website which include the U-195:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...8&page=4&pp=30

Still wanna buy the 195?

[arpodthegreat]

u195 is a great mic to have. not dark at all though. not bright in a trebly kind of way but more like it lets all the high frequencies through. it has a very open and detailed top. very tight sounding mic. also versatile because of the fat switch and the lo cut. you get some nice options. it's a compliment to the u87 in the sense that you may use it for some things you wouldn't use your 87 for like kick drum. not that the 87 can't do kick drum but the u195 is amazing in this application as well as vocals, piano, OH, percussion you name it.

do you really want a dark mic? why are you recording bright cymbals or 6 year female vocalists? not to steal this thread but a dark mic is not always the answer and will not make everything sound "vintage". i would say that the a 414 b-uls is darker than my u195 but i find the u195 has way more mojo. JMO.

btw if you like dark mics. check out the charter oak s600. it's a stereo pair and it's dark alright but still has an open top end. no loss of detail. really amazing on pianos, cabs, and OH. you get two of them also. that would defenitely compliment your u87 and C12. there are probably other mics out there but i haven't tried em so this is what i know. also maybe you should try a ribbon like a coles 4038 (that's a beautiful example of a nice dark mic) or an AEA R84. that would also compliment your mics very well indeed.

last thing: if your 300 marshall sounds amazing to you, use it. i know a few engineers who have done some pretty high profile work and work in all the biggest studios who find use for this mic. i just recorded with my avenson mics that are more than 3x less expensive than my charter oaks because i wanted a different sound. so there you go. would you choose to put your u87 over an $80 sm57 on a snare or guitar cab?

[cap217]

I dont know if I realy want dark.. but more warm. Each person has their own sound or definition! What I am looking for is a good quality V69!

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by cap217

I dont know if I realy want dark.. but more warm. Each person has their own sound or definition! What I am looking for is a good quality V69!

Do you mean this?

V69 Review (Link)

[cap217]

yea, that mic is great... I just cant put that up on clients knowing I can use an 87 or 47 or c12... you know what I mean?

But maybe its the low end boost and the mid freq drop that make me like it. Kind of like a c-800. I never really messed with a sony. Is that the mic I am looking for? I know its a smiley face curve, so that could be the ticket!

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by cap217

yea, that mic is great... I just cant put that up on clients knowing I can use an 87 or 47 or c12... you know what I mean?

But maybe its the low end boost and the mid freq drop that make me like it. Kind of like a c-800. I never really messed with a sony. Is that the mic I am looking for? I know its a smiley face curve, so that could be the ticket!

I've never used the Sony but boy is it pricey! Again it's up to you; if I had an unlimited budget and could afford it, I would get the "Convertible" by KAT. Never mind how well the mic clones all the classics (U47, U67, C12, 251, and NOW the 800!!); it is built like a tank, sounds GREAT, and was used on the Kelly Clarkson record a lot... not that I am a big fan but she gets a great vocal sound and her record was well-engineered...

So, again, IMHO, the Korby takes the cake, and you can get it with all 5 hot-swappable capsules for the bargain-basement price of just $9000.00 USD!! A STEAL!!

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by cap217

yea, that mic is great... I just cant put that up on clients knowing I can use an 87 or 47 or c12... you know what I mean?

But seriously, if that mic is what does it for you then by all means USE IT! Just hide it behind the u87 by the vocalist and let him/her think you are using the u87 while all the while it's the V69 that has the +48V !!!

[Dot]

Originally Posted by cap217

I dont know if I realy want dark.. but more warm. Each person has their own sound or definition! What I am looking for is a good quality V69!

That's my review of the V69. A step up in the same sort of darker mic is the Peluso 22 47 shortbody in the $1250 range. If you're looking for something in the $1600ish range there's the Peluso 22 47LE Telefunken and the Pearlman TM-1 to check out.

Working on a graph that might give you an overview of some of brighter and darker mic on the market...
http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/micgraph.htm

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by cap217

yea, that mic is great... I just cant put that up on clients knowing I can use an 87 or 47 or c12... you know what I mean?

What kind of absurd mic snobbery is this??? tutt

If you like the mic then use it. A client isn't going to fault you for using something that actually sounds good on them. I know a lot of musicians that are rather impressed when I capture great sounds for them using cheap gear. In a way they find that way more impressive than me using something that has a big name or looks expensive and flashy. Use your ears man!

Brad

[briefcasemanx]

Originally Posted by mcballs

Listen to the clips on this website which include the U-195:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...8&page=4&pp=30

Still wanna buy the 195?

Because it wasn't as good as more expensive mics on 1 guys voice using 1 setting?

[cap217]

its not snobbery....
l

If you have a Ferrari and a cavalier, what would you drive? Why would you even think of buying a cavalier..... There are so many more cars out there. Kind of the same thing!

[Brad McGowan]

But you've told us two or three times in this thread that you like gassing up the Cavalier. You just wish it had a Ferrari logo on it.

Brad

[arpodthegreat]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

But you've told us two or three times in this thread that you like gassing up the Cavalier. You just wish it had a Ferrari logo on it.

Brad

a corvette maybe not be as nice as a ferrari but damn if a Z06 can't keep up on the race track. just cuz it says chevy on it doesn't make it slow. know what i mean?
a cavalier is more like one of those shitty mics you get for free on ebay as part of a "bundle" i'd say that sometimes a ferrari is not always the right car. few ferrari owners drive only a ferrari.
sometimes you need a mini cooper to zip around town or a beat up pick up to haul hay down to the barn. ye ha!

[Musiclab]

FWIW I have a U195 a U87 and a Peluso 2247. The U195 doesnt have that mid lift the U87 has but is bright. it's a bit fatter sounding than the u87. If you wan't big and fat get a peluso 2247, it has much more of a larger than life quality. Warm but not dull.

[cap217]

Well there you go... thats the answer I need, someone who has all 3!!!! Now reply and get your 1,000 post!!!!!!!!!

[cap217]

Originally Posted by arpodthegreat

a corvette maybe not be as nice as a ferrari but damn if a Z06 can't keep up on the race track. just cuz it says chevy on it doesn't make it slow. know what i mean?
a cavalier is more like one of those shitty mics you get for free on ebay as part of a "bundle" i'd say that sometimes a ferrari is not always the right car. few ferrari owners drive only a ferrari.
sometimes you need a mini cooper to zip around town or a beat up pick up to haul hay down to the barn. ye ha!

You saying the same as I am.... I was refering to the V69 as the Chevy, the 195 is for sure something better to me.

[Doublehelix]

I had a pair of the older U195s in the studio one night as a test, and I did not like them.

We tried them on a male rock vocal comparing them to the Blue Bottle with the B7 capsule. The U195 was incredibly sibilant with this particular vocalist. They might have worked on others, but for this guy, the tracks were unusable, and we went back to the Blue.

And before anyone asks, yes, we worked on mic placement in an attempt to reduce the sibilance, and all the other tricks short of using a De-Esser (I have a dbx hardware De-Esser, and SPL and Waves software de-essers).

With the fat switch enabled, we really liked the overall tone of the mic, but again, the sibilance just killed us.

I can see where this might be a cool mic to have around (and btw... I also own a U87) for some sources. The tone was rich and full, and if it wasn't for that fizzy top end, it might be a contender.

Also, remember my original comments about these being the OLDER model U195s. The newer ones might be redesigned for all I know.

Overall, the mic was "close", but no cigar for this vocalist on this day with these songs.

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

I had a pair of the older U195s in the studio one night as a test, and I did not like them.

We tried them on a male rock vocal comparing them to the Blue Bottle with the B7 capsule. The U195 was incredibly sibilant with this particular vocalist. They might have worked on others, but for this guy, the tracks were unusable, and we went back to the Blue.

Well I can see how the BLUE Bottle would win.. it's an excellent tube microphone in the $4k price range... but thanks for your input. The U195 is a good mic, but it's not for everyone, as your test shows. Just thought I would ask, do you own the BLUE? And whether or not you own it, have you gotten a chance to audition any of the other capsules? (Don't mean to hijack this thread; although I think I just did)...

Again thanks for the input on the U195.

j.d.

[Doublehelix]

I knew the comments would come up about comparing the Bottle to the U195! e... Yes, they are miles apart price-wise, but I thought the U195 did pretty well considering, other than the sibilance, we really did like the sound.

Sibilance to me is a deal-killer. Period. A lot of the cheaper Chinese mics that I have tried are all quite sibilant, so when I hear it in any mic, I am immediately turned off with thoughts of "cheapness", which should not be the case with Sound Deluxe. I know they are well-regarded and supposedly make some great mics, so I was very excited to hear them. It was quite a let-down.

Am I the only one here who has used the U195 that has seen this problem? If this is the case, then maybe my findings are just unique and outlyers.

Of those of you that chimed in earlier about getting good results with the U195, please chime in here!!! Any sibilance issues???

It could be that this vocalist and the U195 were just not made for each other, and it also could have been a bad mic (they were a used pair and of the older design).

As I have said, the tone was full and rich, and I really liked it with the full switch engaged... minus the fizz of course.



Yes, I own the Bottle, along with the B6 and B7 caps, and have used the B4 omni cap quite a bit as a room mic... AMAZING!

[qubi]

Doublehelix, I agree with the 195 being Sibilant. Especially if the singer has a Sibilance problem, then the 195 is really going to bring it out. Unfortunately, the 195 also sounds best with a good amount of proximity, to really bring out the body..
Add that to a sibilant singer and .. I havent really experimented with the fat switch too much, but maybe i can use it in order to back up from the mic a bit and still get the body..

In anycase, my 195 has recently seemed a bit thinner and lacking in output volume.. not sure if I've just gotten use to it (seemed so much louder when i first got it) or something is going on.. but the sibilance has always been something to watch out for.

[qubi]

To get back to the post (!), FWIW i don't think the 195 is going to give you what you're looking for, although i think it is a good mic, its not that dark at all, and from what i remember of the 87, its not going to expand your pallette of mic "colors" that significantly..

Good luck with your search..

[cap217]

I am looking at the 22 47 LE with the German tube! That may be the right mic here.

[midiman123]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

Am I the only one here who has used the U195 that has seen this problem? If this is the case, then maybe my findings are just unique and outlyers.

Of those of you that chimed in earlier about getting good results with the U195, please chime in here!!! Any sibilance issues???

-Your findings are not unique at all!

Sibilance is a big problem for me when I track, any, vocal with my U195!
It sounds very good, had it not been for the sibilance.
And that really becomes a problem when you want to bring out some of the highs, even if I have an de-esser in there.

KK