Best 500 series rack

[rlsoundsystem]

OSA vs. API vs. BAE?

I want a rackmountable 10-11 space rack not a lunchbox. Is there a real difference between these 3?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by rlsoundsystem

OSA vs. API vs. BAE?

I want a rackmountable 10-11 space rack not a lunchbox. Is there a real difference between these 3?

Yes, there is a difference.... I would reccomend the API (for warranty reasons), or the BAE.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Yes, there is a difference.... I would reccomend the API (for warranty reasons), or the BAE.

Ouch Tony, that's a low blow. This comes as a big surprise considering you called me and emailed me a few months ago and asked if you could be an OSA dealer (and you'd already had the product in your hands when you worked for PAD 4 years ago). Ultimately it's the end user who needs to decide what's right for them, there are hundreds of perfectly functioning OSA racks in studios all over the world with a mixture of products from at least 4 different companies inside the racks (many of whom are very active Gearslutz members). So OSA must be doing something right.

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I would reccomend the API (for warranty reasons)

To clarify, OSA has a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. And also, we do not restrict users from using other brands of 500 series modules. Although API has plans of making some exceptions to what pres are "allowed" in their racks, it's still not a no holds barred "use them if you got 'em" policy like OSA. I have nothing against API or BAE in the slightest, I think they all make great stuff, I happen to own products from all three of these companies for my own personal usage.

[brianroth]

As "goosey" as ATI/API have been in recent years, it wouldn't surprise me if ATI/API would decide to void their warrenty if an API 500 module was used in anything besides a frame sold by ATI/API.

NOT that I'm condoning that mindset...just basing my thoughts on how ATI has been behaving recently.

Don't get me started on the API 7800 unit's bizarre output circuitry for the "aux" outputs, and the "alleged" fact that API has NO service info available because the "designer left the company and took all the schematics with him"......

Bri

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Ouch Tony, that's a low blow. This comes as a big surprise considering you called me and emailed me a few months ago and asked if you could be an OSA dealer (and you'd already had the product in your hands when you worked for PAD 4 years ago). Ultimately it's the end user who needs to decide what's right for them, there are hundreds of perfectly functioning OSA racks in studios all over the world with a mixture of products from at least 4 different companies inside the racks (many of whom are very active Gearslutz members). So OSA must be doing something right.

To clarify, OSA has a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. And also, we do not restrict users from using other brands of 500 series modules. Although API has plans of making some exceptions to what pres are "allowed" in their racks, it's still not a no holds barred "use them if you got 'em" policy like OSA. I have nothing against API or BAE in the slightest, I think they all make great stuff, I happen to own products from all three of these companies for my own personal usage.

Hey Nate, I'm just giving my honest opinion...

Also, I NEVER asked if I could be a dealer for the OSA racks... I had a client who wanted to check out a pair of PREAMPS...

In terms of quality, as someone who has seen all three I would rank them: API, BAE, and OSA in that order... just being honest and don't want to argure about it.

[George Necola]

dont start a pissingmatch or I WILL MODERATE YOU tutt tutt

*joking*

[The Alamo]

I'd like to get this one back on the rails...What I would like to know is what the differences are between these models? Besides the 11 versus 10 slots. There's very little to be found on any of them: what about their PSU's? any of them having a termination switch? Did API change their PSU when switching to an internal PSU on their new 'economy' rack (new 10 space rack being almost 50% less than the one with the external PSU)?
I bet there're not to many folks around who tested or own all three, right?

Out go the lights...

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Hey Nate, I'm just giving my honest opinion...

Also, I NEVER asked if I could be a dealer for the OSA racks... I had a client who wanted to check out a pair of PREAMPS...

In terms of quality, as someone who has seen all three I would rank them: API, BAE, and OSA in that order... just being honest and don't want to argure about it.

what do you mean "in terms of quality" dont they all just provide space and power for 500 series pres, eq's, comps, etc? what does the API one do in terms of quality that the BAE or OSA does not?

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

To clarify, OSA has a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. And also, we do not restrict users from using other brands of 500 series modules. Although API has plans of making some exceptions to what pres are "allowed" in their racks, it's still not a no holds barred "use them if you got 'em" policy like OSA. I have nothing against API or BAE in the slightest, I think they all make great stuff, I happen to own products from all three of these companies for my own personal usage.

i like this about OSA

oops, shouldve put that all in the same post...

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by gm5k

what do you mean "in terms of quality" dont they all just provide space and power for 500 series pres, eq's, comps, etc? what does the API one do in terms of quality that the BAE or OSA does not?

This is an old thread that someone revived today.. I'd rather not comment at this time on the subject. I stand by what I have said.

Feel free to check out other threads via the search, or take apart the units themselves.

Here's a couple threads that stuck out when I searched OSA power supply or API power supply.

Old School Audio

Favorite/Best 500 series rack?

OSA; a customers' endless saga...

[NathanEldred]

Those threads above are invalid and old news. OSA has been using 3 amp Power One brand supplies since Late Feb/early March to temporarily rectify the problem, which in itself was a bump in the road in the history of OSA (there is plenty I've written on the subject of why this happened, do a search). The newest supplies are well constructed, stable, and plenty powerful. You'll notice there was a positive resolution to Louis & Steeve from Limestone Studios PSU problem which was at the tail end of when this happened. They received a very powerful PSU which they are on record as being very happy with (he states this in one of those threads). Note that they are using their OSA rack and PSU for the 500 series shootout happening soon down in Australia. Plans are already underway on a completely custom OSA supply that will be the same or better in quality both electronically and cosmetically to the Power One supplies currently being used in our own metal enclosures.

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Here's a couple threads that stuck out when I searched OSA power supply or API power supply.

not very convincing. seems to me theres a little bit of negative and a ton of positive. but hm lets not hijack the thread with this...i will definitely report here on GS when i recieve my OSA powerrack and hopefully give a great review

to answer the original posters question, it seems like theyre all great products. however, if it is true that API is looking into not letting certain companys' pres be in their racks, well for ME at least that would be a big thing.

i like the idea of being able to have as much of a variety as possible if i ever want to get this or that preamp. i wouldnt want to take a chance on being limited there. but thats just me...certainly wouldnt apply for everyone. good luck on whatever rack you choose!

[cuby]

Hi Nathan,
I plan to buy API/OSA stuff by early next year, will the new power unit ready by then? The current price for the OSA and API rack are close (used to be bigger gap) so I am wondering what's the biggest incentive for choosing OSA?
thanks

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Those threads above are invalid and old news. OSA has been using 3 amp Power One brand supplies since Late Feb/early March to temporarily rectify the problem, which in itself was a bump in the road in the history of OSA (there is plenty I've written on the subject of why this happened, do a search). The newest supplies are well constructed, stable, and plenty powerful. You'll notice there was a positive resolution to Louis & Steeve from Limestone Studios PSU problem which was at the tail end of when this happened. They received a very powerful PSU which they are on record as being very happy with (he states this in one of those threads). Note that they are using their OSA rack and PSU for the 500 series shootout happening soon down in Australia. Plans are already underway on a completely custom OSA supply that will be the same or better in quality both electronically and cosmetically to the Power One supplies currently being used in our own metal enclosures.

Well, none of those threads are from before Feb/ March.. those were the longest threads that popped up when I searched those terms.

Originally Posted by gm5k

not very convincing. seems to me theres a little bit of negative and a ton of positive. but hm lets not hijack the thread with this...i will definitely report here on GS when i recieve my OSA powerrack and hopefully give a great review

to answer the original posters question, it seems like theyre all great products. however, if it is true that API is looking into not letting certain companys' pres be in their racks, well for ME at least that would be a big thing.

i like the idea of being able to have as much of a variety as possible if i ever want to get this or that preamp. i wouldnt want to take a chance on being limited there. but thats just me...certainly wouldnt apply for everyone. good luck on whatever rack you choose!

I'm not looking to convince anyone of anything.. A lot of the technical stuff that constitutes why one rack is better than another, would be over the head of a lot of posters outside of the geekslutz forum. It's not all about the amount of amperage a rack is capable of providing (stated by the manufacturer). Whatever you buy will be yours, not mine.... And I don't see a reason why any of the three wouldn't work. But, if someones going to ask what is "best" in the High End Forum, I think they are entitled to an informed person's opinion on the subject..

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I'm not looking to convince anyone of anything.. A lot of the technical stuff that constitutes why one rack is better than another, would be over the head of a lot of posters outside of the geekslutz forum. It's not all about the amount of amperage a rack is capable of providing (stated by the manufacturer). Whatever you buy will be yours, not mine.... And I don't see a reason why any of the three wouldn't work. But, if someones going to ask what is "best" in the High End Forum, I think they are entitled to an informed person's opinion on the subject..

touche. all of these racks and the pres, eq's, and comps that go in them rule

[Jim Roberts]

I cannot comment on the OSA or BAE, but I can state that my API 10 space chassis has been rock solid since day two 6 years ago. On day one the PSU had a problem that API quickly corrected.

[transfiguration]

I would like to get some perspective from John Hardy, Peter Montessi of A-Designs Audio, Tim Farrant of Buzz Audio, Paul Wolff from Tonelux, Vince Poulos of Speck Electronics & Peter Reardon from Shadow Hills Industries on which 500 series rack they feel is best, given the modules they produce and the corresponding power requirements of said modules. Perhaps one of them, if not all 6, could custom build something just as swell as any of the three below for about the same cost?

I'll try a few PM's and see if I can't get them in here on this exchange.



$825 = API 500V Vertical Module Rack w/ L200 Power Supply includes LS200 power supply



$700 = OSA 11 space rack for 500 series modules includes power supply



$900 = BAE 11 space rack for 500 series modules includes power supply

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by gm5k

touche. all of these racks and the pres, eq's, and comps that go in them rule

Agreed, there are a lot of great choices out there. You've got new EQ's from A-Designs & Avedis. And, it seems like almost everyone makes a mic pre for them now.

Originally Posted by transfiguration

I would like to get some perspective from Peter Montessi of A-Designs Audio, Peter Reardon from Shadow Hills Industries, and Tim Farrant from Buzz Audio on which 500 series rack they feel is best, given the modules they produce and the corresponding power requirements of said modules. Perhaps one of them, if not all three, could custom build something just as swell as any of the three below for about the same cost?

I'll try a few PM's and see if I can't get them in here on this exchange.

Avedis will be announcing his new 500 series rack at AES. It's a no expense spared 2 space 19" rack, and knowing Avedis it will be one of the best available.

[transfiguration]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Avedis will be announcing his new 500 series rack at AES. It's a no expense spared 2 space 19" rack, and knowing Avedis it will be one of the best available.

Excellent!!!


Sent PM's to John Hardy, Paul Wolff, Peter Montessi, Vince Poulos, Tim Farrant, Peter Reardon, Avedis, Eisen Audio, & S&M Audio.thumbsup

[Tim Farrant]

Phyiscally speaking, there is not really that much difference between the API, OSA and BAE from what I can see, except for the BAE frame which is hand wired, the other 2 are PCB mounted.. They all appear to use good quality EDAC edge connectors (not 100% sure about the BAE).

But IMO, there are 2 flaws with the 500 series format that could be rectified. The first is the 0Volt ground buss, ideally this should be individual wires going back to a central ground point, not bussed along as these frames are. This approach would provide better earthing arrangements for the different module types.

The second flaw is the power supply connection. This should have been a 5 pin connector, +15V, - 15V, +48V, 0V and CHASSIS ground. The latter is missing, and ideally the chassis should be connected to mains ground seperate from the power supply common. If the frame is mounted into a rack, the frame MIGHT get an earth via other equipment.

In addition to this, there is a pin assigned on the edge connector for CHASSIS, and the intention of this pin is to connect the chassis of the module to the chassis of the frame. I am not sure about the BAE and API frames but the OSA frame has no connection to this contact. This may/may not be an issue so long as the module is screwed into the frame and is getting a earth via the front panel.

The new OSA power supply has plenty of grunt and could easily power 10 of our Elixir preamps (1.5 amps total). Although I don't know the exact current rating of the LP200 API supply, I am told by API it can also power 10 Elixir modules, so I'm guessing it's around 2 amps capacity. I do not know the rating of the larger BAE supply, perhaps someone could find this out.

Another feature of the BAE that is not clear to me is if there is some provision to easily link compressor modules without having to get out the soldering iron. This is done on the PCB in the API and OSA frames.

Cheers
Tim.

[thenoiseflower]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

But IMO, there are 2 flaws with the 500 series format that could be rectified. The first is the 0Volt ground buss, ideally this should be individual wires going back to a central ground point, not bussed along as these frames are. This approach would provide better earthing arrangements for the different module types.

The second flaw is the power supply connection. This should have been a 5 pin connector, +15V, - 15V, +48V, 0V and CHASSIS ground. The latter is missing, and ideally the chassis should be connected to mains ground seperate from the power supply common. If the frame is mounted into a rack, the frame MIGHT get an earth via other equipment.

Cheers
Tim.

Sooooo....maybe buzz can "Do it Up" so to speak?

[bgrotto]

My OSA rack's working great. I've got one L3 (killer on all things low-endy), and a pair of Shadow Hills GAMAS (killer on all things that make sound). Anyway, I can't comment on any power problems, as I only have those 3 modules.

My one complaint is this: the frame is SLIGHTLY un-parallel (yes, I'm making up words; it's late and I can't think of a better way to put it), so fitting the GAMAS in was a bit of a hassle.

Anyway, I'd like to point out that dealing with Nate was a pleasure, and that the crew at Atlas was very helpful and courteous. Plus, when the rack arrived missing a rubber foot, they immediately shipped me an envelope with about 10 rubber feet. I'm set for life!!

[The Alamo]

Anyone who has the BAE as well?
And what about the big price drop of the API's? Do you think this is more like an adaptation to a market with a few more players, or did they actually alter the design (or have a different manufacterer) of their PSU's?

[Klauth]

Hi,

I have both the API 10 space & BAE 11 space. they both work just fine. no mounting problems whatsoever. I have API EQ's & pre's, A-Designs P-1's & Purple audios, "BIZ" packed in both units. and never had a problem power wise as of yet. I plan on getting a couple of Elixir's next month. so, I'll have to wait to see how that goes.

I would recommend either API or, BAE racks. with the slight nod going to the API as far as materials used. hope this helps, Klauth.

[transfiguration]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

But IMO, there are 2 flaws with the 500 series format that could be rectified. The first is the 0Volt ground buss, ideally this should be individual wires going back to a central ground point, not bussed along as these frames are. This approach would provide better earthing arrangements for the different module types.

The second flaw is the power supply connection. This should have been a 5 pin connector, +15V, - 15V, +48V, 0V and CHASSIS ground. The latter is missing, and ideally the chassis should be connected to mains ground seperate from the power supply common. If the frame is mounted into a rack, the frame MIGHT get an earth via other equipment.

In addition to this, there is a pin assigned on the edge connector for CHASSIS, and the intention of this pin is to connect the chassis of the module to the chassis of the frame. I am not sure about the BAE and API frames but the OSA frame has no connection to this contact. This may/may not be an issue so long as the module is screwed into the frame and is getting a earth via the front panel.

The new OSA power supply has plenty of grunt and could easily power 10 of our Elixir preamps (1.5 amps total). Although I don't know the exact current rating of the LP200 API supply, I am told by API it can also power 10 Elixir modules, so I'm guessing it's around 2 amps capacity. I do not know the rating of the larger BAE supply, perhaps someone could find this out.

Another feature of the BAE that is not clear to me is if there is some provision to easily link compressor modules without having to get out the soldering iron. This is done on the PCB in the API and OSA frames.

Cheers
Tim.

Tim,

Thanks so much for stepping in here and offering your perspective, much appreciated.

Your comments on possible improvements that can be made are especially valuable and would be good for everyone.

Kind Regards, chris anderson

[pan60]

i have no issues with OSA and would recommend it, i love my OSA gear.
Nathan has been great to deal with.
i also think Brent make some great stuff as well.

[The Alamo]

Thx Tim & Klauth

[justinmj]

I've got a BAE 11 space, and it works great and is very well built. In it I've got:

Two early BAE 312 pre's
Two A Designs P-1's
One A Designs EM-Silver
Two 550 A
Two 560 B
One 512 C (soon to buy another)

So it's almost full, and there's never been an issue. I also have an API 500H horizontal 2-space rack that I use for session work which I usually put a 560B and a pre into. That is also very well built and without issue. For me, I really like those BAE guys and it makes me comfortable to know that they're in LA if there's ever an issue.

Best,
JMJ
www.justinmj.com

[Isle of Weight]

Originally Posted by transfiguration

I would like to get some perspective from Peter Montessi of A-Designs Audio, Peter Reardon from Shadow Hills Industries, and Tim Farrant from Buzz Audio on which 500 series rack they feel is best, given the modules they produce and the corresponding power requirements of said modules. Perhaps one of them, if not all three, could custom build something just as swell as any of the three below for about the same cost?

I'll try a few PM's and see if I can't get them in here on this exchange.



$825 = API 500V Vertical Module Rack w/ L200 Power Supply includes LS200 power supply



$700 = OSA 11 space rack for 500 series modules includes power supply



$900 = BAE 11 space rack for 500 series modules includes power supply

does the $825 api rack include the power supply????
Cause I thought it did'nt
Aaron

[transfiguration]

Aaron,

The API 500 rack sold through Mercenary Audio does indeed include the L200 power supply.

Best, trans

P.S. If you click on the link above you will be directed to a page on Mercenary Audio's website which will verify this information for you.