$4500 to Spend for one magic box

[BlueBird]

I'm a Singer/Songwriter in love with the sound of Simon and Garfunkle, Cat Stevens,
CSNY Beatles etc...Although My Production Style mixes Classic/Retro and Low Fi

I have a modest DAW setup -
(828 which I will be upgrading to a FireFace 800)
a Soundelux u99,
Telefunken V672's (from Marquette)
and Two Distressors.
I currently mix very ITB with Waves Plug INs./Altiverb with "trips" out to the Distressors

I recorded most of my tracks in a "proper" studio with Decent Pres- Millinea, Avalon, and Vintech X73i (which actually sounded great with the u99)
Most of the raw tones are very good.
I'm Mixing at home. I'm 75% happy with my mixes thus far.
I'm looking for that One Great Box. I know I know....
but rather than buy a few pieces of good kit, I really want to invest
in something Special that I can run tracks threw individually, grouped or the
whole mix.
Something that can go from sweet pure love -"Here Comes the Sun"
all the way to that dirty - "I am the Walrus!"
It's got to be warm and gluey
Something with MOJO!
with whatever sounds you give it.
(It needs to be Stereo)
So my ideas thus far -
Thermionic Early Bird ST Mic Pre/eq
DW Fearn VT 2 ST Mic pre
DW Fearn VT 7 comp
Cranesong STC 8
Drawmer 1969
ShadowHill Gamma Deluxe
Some sort of Lunchbox combo?
or maybe for versatility i'll have to buy 2 boxes but I really need to make this
purchase count.

Please advise oh Gurus of Sound
Happy Days!
Jacob

[sedohr]

I see a flock of advice coming, praising the ultimate outboard; the Tape-machine!!!

[seaneldon]

i heard the thermionic culture pre/eq at mercenary. i always try my absolute hardest not to decide that something is "AWESOME!!!" with only 20 minutes of playing with it, but i have to say i was pretty floored by it. the eq is fixed frequency, but whatever the hell frequencies they chose are right on the money. we patched a vocal track into it and just boosted all three bands to where most eqs would just shit out awful muffled sounds, but the early bird handled it all really well, and it was actually quite pleasing. plus, the mic pres kick ass. definitely not an all-in-one-magic-box but i gotta say if i had $4300 bucks in my pocket that day and didn't have credit card bills to pay from a year ago, i would have went home with it.

[adamcal]

some kind of nice tape machine perhaps, you can dump individual tracks to a 2 track 2 at a time for instant mojo. (or should that be karma)

also mix to it.

or perhaps a 1 or 2 inch, 8 or 16 track.

factor in a MRL, demag, new rollers, and some time and you good to go.

have fun experimenting with different line ups.

[adamcal]

Originally Posted by BlueBird

I'm a Singer/Songwriter in love with the sound of Simon and Garfunkle, Cat Stevens,
CSNY Beatles etc

Tape, tape and more tape

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by BlueBird

I'm a Singer/Songwriter in love with the sound of Simon and Garfunkle, Cat Stevens,
CSNY Beatles etc...Although My Production Style mixes Classic/Retro and Low Fi


It's got to be warm and gluey
Something with MOJO!
with whatever sounds you give it.
(It needs to be Stereo)

TAPE!


Just like Adamcal suggested.. I second Analog Tape ..
I have tons of high end outboard stuff and I'd say one of the coolest "Vibe" pieces I own would be my 1/2 inch tape machine..stike

[octatonic]

You could get a tape machine... :-)

OR find another $1000 and get a Groove Tubes Vipre and Glory Compressor.

[heyman]

Another vote for tape machine

or...

all in wonder box..

Pendulum Audio Quartet 2 -even though it is only 1 channel- very versatile.!!

[bpatural]

get a tape machine if you like old or lo fi records.
the hiss is half the sound
-brian

[bpatural]

for 4500 you could get a 24 track and dump the whole session over and back...nice dark warmth for days.
-brian

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by bpatural

for 4500 you could get a 24 track and dump the whole session over and back...nice dark warmth for days.
-brian

... in what sort of condition though?
Or has the price of 24 track 2" dropped?

JR

[u b k]

my suggestions:

1) tape

2) thermionic phoenix

3) nicerizer 16


gregoire
del ubik

[bpatural]

I've seen studer 827s go for 6500 and that's the top of the line. I'm sure you can find a decent machine on ebay for 4500.
-brian

[BlueBird]

Very Interestring. I love this sort of think tank. Thanks for the Suggestions.
My plan has been to finish the mixes in the DAW with bits of magic outboard.
I really love reshaping sounds ala Lanois/Dave Friedman etc...
Once the mixes are there, I want to take them into the Tape op studio and
Sum the Multi threw a nice chain and mix the final pass onto there 1/2 inch.
I agree there is no sound like tape. and most of that magic I love aside
from the glorious songwriting in those old and not so old records is prob
the sound of the tape.
However I need something that travels well.
and lugging a big tape machine around isn't an option.
My Telefunkens are great but they sort of do one thing good.
The Distressors are Fantastic at mashing things up but dont seem
to work great on the 2 bus in that Gluey sort of way.
I was leaning towards a tube pre that has a bit of that soft compression
sound as my mixes are maybe a little "hard" sounding at present.
but i also thought maybe a couple Gamma or Germanium or Manley Dual pres
with a purple 1176 might give me that sound.
but if I do end up with another compressor i'd like something thats quite
different from the Distressors as I already have the distr sound coverd.

Anymore thoughts???
Thanks again.

[raal]

i don't think there's a magic box that can do the trick. if i had $4500, i'd get a pair of germaniums (clean to dirty, and you mentioned MOJO) and they're not too expensive. you also said you liked the sound of your mic with vintechs, so maybe those, or 1272s.

also an all around comp (you mentioned STC-8 - that and your distressors) but we're getting over budget.

i'd also add a good clock to your verters, and take it from there.

from your initial post i didn't get the vibe you were into everything that goes along with having a tape machine, but even if you went that route, i'd put pres, comp and clock on higher priority.

(edit) oops. didn't see your last post. for a tube deal Fearns would be great, but you did say $4500. not gonna happen if you want a comp also. try the germs out. i think you'll be surprised.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

TAPE!


Just like Adamcal suggested.. I second Analog Tape ..
I have tons of high end outboard stuff and I'd say one of the coolest "Vibe" pieces I own would be my 1/2 inch tape machine..stike

Round,
What type of 1/2" do you own?

[Amplove]

I don't mean this is a derogatory way but ignorance is bliss. You don't know what you're missing with 2" tape. That is the difference. Call Coral Sound in New York and ask them about their refurbished 3M machines. Jesus Christ, you can get any tape machine with that money you mentioned: Studer A800, MCI JH16 or 24, whatever. Once you have a machine like that, you won't need to be mobil.

J.

Everest Recorders

[Songhead]

Gotta love the tape thing, especially seeing how inexpensive good trape machines are now. (I have, literally, TONS of used 2 tracks for sale)
thumbsup

The Thermionic Phoenix is absolutely gorgeous sounding, and for more flexibility and color, the Tube-Tech SMC-2B is pretty damn cool.



But for $4500, I'd get an API 2500 and a Studer A80 1/2"

[Kalite Marka]

I wouldn’t really recommend a Tape machine for someone who is solely recording/mixing his own material.
Along with tape comes a lot of maintenance responsibilities and personally don’t think would be practical for a small project studio.

[superburtm]

maybe a nice bus compressor such as a Portico 5043 comp which is supposed to be amazing and a great deal to boot....or a Neve 33606 or API 2500...................... Manley Vari-mu

[u b k]

Originally Posted by BlueBird

I was leaning towards a tube pre that has a bit of that soft compression sound as my mixes are maybe a little "hard" sounding at present.

do your raw tracks sound hard as well, or just the mix? if the former, i'd be looking more at the front end. if the latter, i'd look at how you're processing them, and that includes how you put them together (channel eq/compression, summing, mix comp).

the thing is, using gear to remove an unwanted quality is a lot less effective than identifying the part of the process that introduces the quality in the first place. ime, hardness comes from mediocre conversion, processed with copious dsp, summed digital.

so in your case i'd be spotting ways to create softer tracks, and/or a softer mix, rather than softening a hard mix.

make sense?


gregoire
del ubik

[TonyBelmont]

DON'T BUY A TAPE MACHINE!!!!

There is a reason that the market is flooded with them right now!

Get a good stereo buss compressor and call it a day...

[TonyBelmont]

Now that I think about it... Get the STC8!

[natpub]

hi, cool music you describe

read your posts and seems you have good plans---as you said, you have tape on yer list

ok, one thought---put your 4500 in the bank, then test as many boxes as you need to

if that was already your thought and you are just seeking ideas, I'd suggest that with your current and planned AD/DA solutions, you'd not hear the key differences between $1k or $5k boxes, regardless of which you use.

i dont know yer room, but assuming you spent at least half this kinda money on it, then lets say your mixing space is set (if it isnt, then look at that)

next, assume you have monitors you know and translate well...

then i'd say your conversion for i/o and monitoring is a weak link and makes it very hard to realize the benefits of someything like the Fearns---

with the vagueness of lower or mid-level conversion and monitoring situation, i'd be hard pressed to believe any serious progress towards that last 25% you want is happening

Lavry blue 2ch AD/DA, maybe?

anyway, i dunno your entire situation, but seems to be approaching it backwards mebbe..shrug

[usamike]

I would say Neve 33609 comp, Greg Wells says the new Rupert Neve 5043 Portico Compressor beats it out. $1750 as compared to 4500.

[Jim Williams]

Shocked no one suggested the obvious, an analog console. Great deals in that price range can be had.

If you go analog tape, most owners still don't know how to properly align them.
Then you still need the analog console to mix.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[GearHunter]

The Pendulum Audio Quartet II: The Magic Box

Outstanding!

[superjimmer]

I would get a Portico 5043 Dual Comp (or a 5042 tape saturation unit) and a Shadow Hills GAMA Deluxe. Almost exactly $4500 through VK. Fairly Portable, should keep its value and get you good and gluey.

That's basically what I did. I bought the Portico 5042 Tape unit and a lunchbox with two Shadow Hills mono GAMAs (while I wait for the deluxe). And I am already feeling the warm mixes heating up my project studio. It should be noted that in another thread Portico/RND actually say that the 5043 comp does a better job of glueing than the Tape machine. I built an SSL bus comp clone though and opted for the 5042.

Anyway that's my uneducated vote, best of luck!

- Jim

***************************************************

******//www.jimroll.com

[superjimmer]

OOOooohhhhhh! One more thing. Get a ribbon mic if you haven't already. I have the AEA R92 running through the GAMAs and the Portico 5042 and it sounds amazing! (I have several nice condensors too which also benefit from this chain).

SO from experience (I did this just recently): I went to Vintage King (I live about 40 minutes from them) and tried out several ribbon mic's. I opted for the AEA R92 over the Royer and Beyer because I was gonna use it for vocals a lot. I LOVE Royer and Beyer BTW but the AEA were better for my needs. I also tried out the Portico in the VK demo room and they were very patient and very helpful. Finally I checked out the Shadow Hills mono GAMAs. I ultimately am going to get the Deulxe (have ordered one) but for now I walked out with an amazing vintage sounding recording chain for $4100 roughly:

Rupert Neve Designs 5042 tape saturation unit
API Lunchbox with two Shadow Hills Mono Gama's
AEA R92 modern close proximity slightly bright ribbon mic

I recount this experience because I have the same taste in music as the creator of this thread and I came in just under his budget (initially although if you buy the deluxe instead of the API LB and 2 mono Gama's then you go over if you also get the AEA R92). Also I cannot emphasize enough how patient and helpful the Vintage King folks were since they don't really have a showroom and I just showed up at their door and didn't know anybody there and had never ordered from them before!

- Jim

*******************************************************

******//www.jimroll.com

[Greg Wells]

If you really like that colored glue-y sound, you should try the combination of the Portico 5043 compressor followed by the Portico 5042 tape emulator. It will make you happy. Happy happy joy joy. Recording to tape is always the preferable option, but if you're at home with a DAW, you won't believe how these two units will make your shit sound like tape for days.