Good home vocal / guitar chain for about $2k

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Hi Guys,
I'm just setting up a little vocal & guitar chain at home to save some money while tracking a couple of new records and was thinking about getting a new mic and pre-amp.

At the moment mic and pre wise I only have an Sm57, Beta 57, Studio Projects C1 and a Joemeek VC6.

These then go into my Mbox Pro (original blue one not the new one.)

I'm definitely getting an SE reflexion filter for a bit of extra acoustic treatment and am looking at these mics and Pres on ebay and a few dealers:

Mics:
Telefunken AK47 ($1100 used)
Neumann TLM 193 ($900-$1000 used)
Neumann TLM 103 ($600-$800 used)
Shure SM7 (around $300)

Pre-amp:
Chandler Germanium (around $1000 used with power supply)
Vintech X73i (about $1200 used with power)
UA LA610 ($800 - $1100 used)

or a Lunchbox ($425) and either:
Avedis MA5 ($785)
Neve 1073lb ($1k)
Chandler Germanium ($950)

I make a sort mish-mash of Fuzz pedal heavy Indie Rock / Folktronica
Sort of My Bloody Valentine / Pavement mixed with Broadcast but more poppy.

So I like affecting stuff and making it tapey and vibey but then having brighter clean chimey stuff popping through the murk. Make sense? I'd like the option of both clean and affected.

My voice apparently doesn't need low-mids cut out. So guess I have a hi mid voice?? We used a Firefly through a Germanium for the last record I did.

Anyway I have been leaning towards the Telefunken / Germanium combo. Seems like it may do both and have a nice warmth.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[automatom]

If I were you I'd blow all your dough on the best mic you can.

The Preamps in your Mbox ought to be fit for purpose.

Now find someone who'll let you try a bunch.

[automatom]

103=not great on everyone, perhaps (imo) not great at all.

My advice would be to try gefells, brauners and bocks.

[Bloodstar57]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan

Hi Guys,
I'm just setting up a little vocal & guitar chain at home to save some money while tracking a couple of new records and was thinking about getting a new mic and pre-amp.

At the moment mic and pre wise I only have an Sm57, Beta 57, Studio Projects C1 and a Joemeek VC6.

These then go into my Mbox Pro (original blue one not the new one.)

I'm definitely getting an SE reflexion filter for a bit of extra acoustic treatment and am looking at these mics and Pres on ebay and a few dealers:

Mics:
Telefunken AK47 ($1100 used)
Neumann TLM 193 ($900-$1000 used)
Neumann TLM 103 ($600-$800 used)
Shure SM7 (around $300)

Pre-amp:
Chandler Germanium (around $1000 used with power supply)
Vintech X73i (about $1200 used with power)
UA LA610 ($800 - $1100 used)

or a Lunchbox ($425) and either:
Avedis MA5 ($785)
Neve 1073lb ($1k)
Chandler Germanium ($950)

I make a sort mish-mash of Fuzz pedal heavy Indie Rock / Folktronica
Sort of My Bloody Valentine / Pavement mixed with Broadcast but more poppy.

So I like affecting stuff and making it tapey and vibey but then having brighter clean chimey stuff popping through the murk. Make sense? I'd like the option of both clean and affected.

My voice apparently doesn't need low-mids cut out. So guess I have a hi mid voice?? We used a Firefly through a Germanium for the last record I did.

Anyway I have been leaning towards the Telefunken / Germanium combo. Seems like it may do both and have a nice warmth.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Honestly you need better converter maybe the newer mbox pro. After that I would see what is left over for something like a bock 195 or Beezneez oliver.
The vintech is nice but the ua 610 gives you a good comp as well which will be more useful than the eq section of the vintech IMO. That if u could stretch your budget a bit

[zimv20]

M160 -> TG2

blows your budget, but not by too much.

[whereisbkp]

my two cents:
i would recommend the API a2d plugged into your mbox s/pdif (used about $1350). the API will be a huge step up compared to the orig mbox and will make all your existing mics sound better! then maybe a pair of sdc mics (oktava mk-012,etc.) or a versatile ldc that works on guitar (AT 4050, etc.) and then i would save up a little more for a tube vocal mic (miktek cv4 is currently my fav vocal mic and versatile).

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Thanks Guys. I didn't realise the new mbox Pro had come down in price so much. You can get it for just over $500 now. So am I right in thinking that has the same convertors as the Apogee duet? I read that in a few places recently.

That a2d and the TG2 I hadn't factored in. Both look interesting. How does the TG2 compare sound wise to the Germanium?

With the new Telefunkens are you basically paying for the name? Are Bock mics a lot better bang for the buck? I'd seen those on Vintage Kings site...

[tomdarude]

go and hear the Mojave MA-200 mic!! it´s crazy good for the money and gives those Neumann TLMs a run for the money... rent one from a dealer!!

[Bloodstar57]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan

Thanks Guys. I didn't realise the new mbox Pro had come down in price so much. You can get it for just over $500 now. So am I right in thinking that has the same convertors as the Apogee duet? I read that in a few places recently.

That a2d and the TG2 I hadn't factored in. Both look interesting. How does the TG2 compare sound wise to the Germanium?

With the new Telefunkens are you basically paying for the name? Are Bock mics a lot better bang for the buck? I'd seen those on Vintage Kings site...

It's the same converters as the ensemble. What is your budget around?

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Originally Posted by Bloodstar57

It's the same converters as the ensemble. What is your budget around?

About $2000. Originally I was going to spend about 1/2 each on a mic and a pre but now thinking about the other links in the chain.

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

go and hear the Mojave MA-200 mic!! it´s crazy good for the money and gives those Neumann TLMs a run for the money... rent one from a dealer!!

That mic has totally Rave reviews! I've only used Mr Royer's ribbon mic's before. I'd heard of Mojave but didn't realise it was the same guy.

[cheu78]

You'd like to check out the Violet Design The Globe Vintage or if more on the budget the Black Knight.. or if you're after a tube mic check out the Beesneez studio series.. Very nice stuff and very versatile. Whatever you'll go with try them in your studio..

Never tried the Mojave, but looks it has a lot of good praise over here..

The Avedis MA5 is a stellar preamp (is 10$ cheaper from the price you've posted )..but check out the BAE DMP also, can't go wrong with those 2.

Since you want to record vocals and guitars, and you already have an sm57, a condenser might be a good option to have for the gtr's, and will be great on vox..

just my 0.02$,



Cheu

[evilrocker]

Just buy a good affordable preamp, moving the mic one inch changes the sound a thousand times more than different preamps. I have the ma5, 512, P1. Had Portici, UA etc.

[Pgraf88]

I 2nd the Mojave option. And suggest the Shadow Hills gama for the lunchbox. And maybe an SM7b.

[thelead]

I've tried a few Neumann mics against my Telefunken AK47. The AK47 never lost.

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Thanks for all of your help everyone.

So now I'm thinking of getting that Mojave MA200 a few of you mentioned. It has amazing reviews everywhere.
I'm going to get a BAE lunchbox and audition a few pre's from Vintage king.

Gonna try out the Avedis MA5 and The Shadow Hills Mono Gama for sure.

[nst7]

The new Mbox Pro may have the same converter chips as the ensemble or duet, but there is much more in the design of a unit that affects the sound quality.

I have tested the new Mbox against the Duet 2, and thought the mbox sounded better. So that means it will probably sound much better than the original duet or ensemble.

Bottom line, the new Mbox Pro sounds great.

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Ah man. So Vintage King is out of the Avedis and the Germanium I was watching on ebay has gone but I got a really killer deal on the Mojave MA200 at Vintage King. I mean. Absolutely awesome deal. I have that on hold.

What I hadn't seen before today was was the BAE 1073MP and DMP.
Any opinions on these? I can get one for less than a lunchbox and pre basically. If it's pretty similar to the Avedis (being 1073 clones) I guess that may be a good buy?
Anyway I have an ex-demo DMP on hold at Vintage King pending the result of another ebay auction (I know it's very different to the pres I've been talking about but I'm watching a BAE 312,not made a bid yet though).

[cheu78]

The DMP (and the 1073MP) are stellar.. You can't go wrong either..
The MA5 is not a clone, and its output xformer is different.. I'd say that has maybe a bigger bottom but tighter.. And it btw sounds pretty close to a 1073 (at least IMO)..
They sound different always IMO.. hard to describe how though.. both have tons of balls and are absolutely fantastic.
Btw I know that Avedis is constantly making them, it's a one man operation business.. So don't worry I guess VK will have them in stock soon..



Cheu

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Well I popped onto ebay and there was an Avedis MA5 on there for a "buy it now" of $675 with free shipping so I jumped on it. Tomorrow will be lunchbox and Mojave MA200 ordering time! Exciting!
I'm going to get the new mBox Pro too but that will have to wait till next month...

[John Z]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan

Well I popped onto ebay and there was an Avedis MA5 on there for a "buy it now" of $675 with free shipping so I jumped on it. Tomorrow will be lunchbox and Mojave MA200 ordering time! Exciting!
I'm going to get the new mBox Pro too but that will have to wait till next month...

For the price of the mbox i would rather get a used A/D converter like a mytek stereo 96 or lavry and hook it up with your current mbox. You will get a better conversion sound.

[cheu78]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan

Well I popped onto ebay and there was an Avedis MA5 on there for a "buy it now" of $675 with free shipping so I jumped on it.

Wow!! If the seller is a trusty one, you made a very good deal.. The MA5's are unbreakable (unless pulled too hard on the output knob, which nobody shoud do).. But Avedis usually fix them free of charge when that happens.. (it's not a good reason for pulling them though! )



Cheu

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Originally Posted by cheu78

Wow!! If the seller is a trusty one, you made a very good deal.. The MA5's are unbreakable (unless pulled too hard on the output knob, which nobody shoud do).. But Avedis usually fix them free of charge when that happens.. (it's not a good reason for pulling them though! )



Cheu

Yeah! It's an awesome deal! I'd been looking constantly on ebay and hadn't seen a single MA5 and then all of a sudden the day I had the money to buy the pre it was there on ebay for a $100 less than in the store. Crazy timing. I think he must have literally just posted it.

But yeah. Mojave MA200 is next on the list today from Vintage King and then I need to sort out the lunchbox. Sweetwater is out of the api 6 space (which is a bummer as I have a $150 Sweetwater gift card).

Vintage King has a used BAE here: Brent Averill 6 Module Rack w/ PSU - 48v later model (used)

Is it worth getting one of these over the api version? Why are the BAE's so much more? I read about less interference from the power supply as it is not built in.

Thanks for everyones help so far!

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Originally Posted by John Z

For the price of the mbox i would rather get a used A/D converter like a mytek stereo 96 or lavry and hook it up with your current mbox. You will get a better conversion sound.

Just been looking at the Mytek. Looks like I may be able to get a used one for about $650. So is that equivalent a Rosetta? A few people I know have Apogee units.

[cheu78]

Yes, that (even if it shouldn't be a problem) and no pin1 "problem".. As everything BAE.. It's very well built.

With the mic.. Try to compare at least a couple of models at your place before buying it.. It's not (or not forcely) a matter of price.. The mic should fit the vocals.. It doesn't matter how expensive or praised on GS it is.. For some vox an SM7 might suit better than a U47.. You know what I mean..

Violet Design, Beesneez, Gefell, Brauner (and probably also the Mojave, I dunno, never used)..are all very serious contenders. There might be some ribbons that could fit the bill also, like a coles 4038 or some AEA or the Shinybox.. There will be one that will fit better than others.



Cheu

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Originally Posted by cheu78

Yes, that (even if it shouldn't be a problem) and no pin1 "problem".. As everything BAE.. It's very well built.

With the mic.. Try to compare at least a couple of models at your place before buying it.. It's not (or not forcely) a matter of price.. The mic should fit the vocals.. It doesn't matter how expensive or praised on GS it is.. For some vox an SM7 might suit better than a U47.. You know what I mean..

Cheu

Thanks for the reply! Yeah the only thing is that I'm in Athens GA and am not near anywhere that I can borrow these mics really. The dealers that I've talked to have said I'll have to pay the full amount and then have it re-credited if I don't like the mic.

I was originally going to get an SM7 to be honest and would definitely like one at some point. I do actually have an LDC just not a great one. It's a studio projects C1. Sounds okay, but the highs are really harsh to my ear!


Thanks!

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Okay. Done. Got the Lunch box, Avedis MA5 and Mojave MA200 on their way. Will look at the mytek or mbox next month

[cheu78]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan

Okay. Done. Got the Lunch box, Avedis MA5 and Mojave MA200 on their way. Will look at the mytek or mbox next month

The idea of the mytek is a good one.. Or choosing a new interface like the new RME UCX (which you could use with mac or pc's)..
Btw even if mytek is a huge step up from the mbox, it's a small difference compared to moving a mic in another position.. (at least IMO).

Let us know how do you like the new stuff



Cheu

[Mighty_Zoltan]

Originally Posted by cheu78

Let us know how do you like the new stuff

Will do! The mic just turned up at my work! It's like Christmas!

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan

Will do! The mic just turned up at my work! It's like Christmas!

Really? You get to sit around in your bathrobe and drink all day?!?!

Cool!!!