Re-amping devices
Old 26th January 2012
  #1
Recording Artist
 
Bob G's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Re-amping devices

I would just like to ask what are all the currently available re-amping devices out there and which one is the best in your opinions?

I am looking to re-amp through pedals and guitar/bass amps for recording and mixing applications and am also wondering if there are any units that include both a very high end and high quality re-amp output but also a high quality DI to bring the re-amped signals that are just going through pedals back into my Neve mic preamps with a really high quality DI?

Thanks!
Old 26th January 2012
  #2
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Kiwi's Avatar
 

I consider the two stages as being totally seperate, and can't see why one would want to integrate them.

Electric guitar technology is a 1940s unbalanced abomination, and this means plenty of room for hums and buzzes of all types. Dropping +4 line level down to guitar level is a massive attenuation - so why anyone would want an active solution eludes me. A passive, purpose designed transformer, sitting on the amp head with a short jumper cable is the elegant solution to avoid hum. This is exactly what the Cuniberti Reamp patent was for, and the solution used by the big names. Recently, the rights to make this went to Radial, a company who makes damn fine transformer based products that work - so while I own a pair of Reamp V2s, if I needed more I would buy the Radial version.

Getting a clean guitar pickup signal into your DAW is a completely seperate challenge - and because transformers color the sound, I would suggest the shortest, cleanest hi impedance active path to your A/D. A lot of preamps and interfaces have this already, and if you are using the self contained A/D there is probably no reason to look further.

Possibly the ideal is a purpose designed instrument preamp with line out, into your best A/D. But some of these are designed to color the signal ... which is fine if that's what you want. But for reamping, it's generally wise to avoid coloration at this stage. But rules are made to be broken ... this is a guitar chain after all.

Personally, I treat the whole chain as my guitar tone solution. I care more about eliminating noise than I do about eliminating color.

Plenty of toys to choose from. Some will suggest MW1, which is designed by people who know what they are doing. I'm dubious that it would work for *ME* because I seem to be plagued by hum if I don't use transformers. If you have a perfect star-grounded studio wiring and grounding scheme you might be fine with no transformers. Or, you can add transformers as required - but I don't see the point when a real Reamp does what it was designed to do. IMO, more iron in the path doesn't hurt a guitar tone.
Old 26th January 2012
  #3
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Scott Whigham's Avatar
 

I have the MW1 and love it. Once I dial it in, I honestly can't tell the tonal difference between a live player and the MW1 reamped - it's that good.
Old 26th January 2012
  #4
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Fletcher's Avatar
 

My favorites are made by Littlelabs [they have a bunch of boxes that do the functions you're looking for, I suggest checking out the website to determine if there are other features with their stuff that might suit your requirements].

I have found zero noise issues, and a very pleasant overall musical tonality. Anytime you add anything to any signal path its going to have an influence on the sound... so in "head to head taste tests" with the Radial stuff, I found the Littlelabs stuff a fair measure "fuller" sounding... not dark [as in any form of treble rolloff] but "fuller" as in "meatier" - "rounder" - like a man sized kind of tonal change.

As always... YMMV

Peace
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Old 27th January 2012
  #5
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
I would just like to ask what are all the currently available re-amping devices out there and which one is the best in your opinions?

I am looking to re-amp through pedals and guitar/bass amps for recording and mixing applications and am also wondering if there are any units that include both a very high end and high quality re-amp output but also a high quality DI to bring the re-amped signals that are just going through pedals back into my Neve mic preamps with a really high quality DI?

Thanks!
WM1 is prolly the best but also the most expensive. sold my WM1 now I just use a radial JDI, it's ok
Old 27th January 2012
  #6
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guittarzzan's Avatar
 

I had the MW1 Studio Tool. It is frickin' awesome and probably more features than you'll ever need. It's price tag matches it's quality and features, but if you have the cash, get one and don't look back.

I sold mine and wish I hadn't. I now have a Radial JDV in route. It has the features that I really need and nothing more. Quite a bit cheaper than the MW1 if that's all you need.

One thing I have to tip my hat to CAL on for the MW1 is the back panel. Every jack has a lighted label so you can look back there and easily see what's what in the dark etc. Just an awesome and well thought out product imo.
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Old 27th January 2012
  #7
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I use a LittleLabs IBP. It's easy, transparent, and does double-duty as a phase thingy when needed. Great tool. Should get another one.

FWIW, the IBP has input and output trim pots for the guitar input & output. I had to trim mine all the way down so as not to clip the converters with a Les Paul on the way in. I then had to equally trim "up" the re-amp output.
Old 27th January 2012
  #8
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

MW1 - incredible tool, lots of options
no transformer in the DI pass - more realistic imo
great features - like variable impedance, studio gear like stompboxes and so on
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Old 27th January 2012
  #9
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Bassmec's Avatar
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit View Post
I use a LittleLabs IBP. It's easy, transparent, and does double-duty as a phase thingy when needed. Great tool. Should get another one.

FWIW, the IBP has input and output trim pots for the guitar input & output. I had to trim mine all the way down so as not to clip the converters with a Les Paul on the way in. I then had to equally trim "up" the re-amp output.
Tried a lot of stuff but found the little labs phase tool does exactly what i want in a box, the only question is will I go blind If I fiddle with my phase knob too much.
I should get another as well because the snare drum lower mic channel insert keeps stealing it when I want to use it on guitar or bass, oh heck! maybe I need another two to avoid printing phase decisions before the mix.
Old 27th January 2012
  #10
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 

In my old room I had 1x IBP and 3x IBP Jr. -- one of the very next purchases for the room where I work most these days will be 2x IBP and 2x IBP Jr. [as we'll need to do more "re-amp" stuff and the IBP Jr. doesn't have that function].

Peace
Old 28th January 2012
  #11
Recording Artist
 
Bob G's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Thanks for all the good advice from everyone.

I'm using the IBP. I may have to get the Red Eye so I have strereo reamp capabilites.

Is the Red Eye the exact same circuit DI and Reamp as the IBP?
Old 7th February 2012
  #12
Gear nut
 

I'm very curious of this as well.

I wan't to upgrade my DI/reamp gear to be the best because I do a lot of reamping.

Right now I've got Radial JDV and X-Amp but I feel like I'm missing some tone and signal strength when I reamp.

My signal chain when I record the guitar DI is: Guitar (active pickups)-JDV-audient ASP008 pre-Aurora-RME I/O-DAW

Reamp signal chain: DAW-RME I/O-Aurora-X Amp-Amplifier

I started to look at MW1 studio tool. Would it be my choice or would Little Labs redeye be decent enough?
Do I need a passive DI box if I wan't to reamp low gain passive mic guitars? RIght now I mostly reamp high impendance active pickup guitars...
Old 8th February 2012
  #13
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Steamy Williams's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevelous View Post
I'm very curious of this as well.

I wan't to upgrade my DI/reamp gear to be the best because I do a lot of reamping.

Right now I've got Radial JDV and X-Amp but I feel like I'm missing some tone and signal strength when I reamp.

My signal chain when I record the guitar DI is: Guitar (active pickups)-JDV-audient ASP008 pre-Aurora-RME I/O-DAW

Reamp signal chain: DAW-RME I/O-Aurora-X Amp-Amplifier

I started to look at MW1 studio tool. Would it be my choice or would Little Labs redeye be decent enough?
Do I need a passive DI box if I wan't to reamp low gain passive mic guitars? RIght now I mostly reamp high impendance active pickup guitars...
I use the Radial JDV and the X-Amp for reamping, and haven't noticed any problems with tone or signal strength. I also use it with Lynx Aurora converters like you, but with a Crane Song Flamingo.1 pre where you use the ASP008. Anyway, have you tried playing with the input impedance on the JDV? Also, are you sending the JDV Direct Thru to anything while you're recording, such as an amp? That will load the guitar more as it will lower the input impedance of the DI. This won't be an issue if you use the Aux outputs instead, as they're buffered.

Incidentally, when recording I always make a note of the amount of gain I add to the DI with the pre. Then when I'm reamping I set the attenuation on the X-Amp to the same amount. That way the amp will get the same signal level that the guitar was putting out when it was originally recorded. The JDV outputs unity gain, so there is no need to account for a change in level from that.
Old 8th February 2012
  #14
Gear Head
 
firefly419's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit View Post
I use a LittleLabs IBP. It's easy, transparent, and does double-duty as a phase thingy when needed. Great tool. Should get another one.

FWIW, the IBP has input and output trim pots for the guitar input & output. I had to trim mine all the way down so as not to clip the converters with a Les Paul on the way in. I then had to equally trim "up" the re-amp output.
+1
Old 8th February 2012
  #15
Gear maniac
 
Warren Beck's Avatar
 

Hello.

To further Kiwi's terrific response - there are a few kits in ebay and on the internet so you can make your own. But a basic step-up transformer is all one needs. Properly shielded in a Faraday shield (as the high impedance of the guitar can act as an antenna and thus interfere with the signal - attracting RF interference) will work the best. Yes a common off-the-shelf transformer will colour the sound to a point (Lundhal vs Sowter vs Hammond - some more so some less so). An active circuit can be easily designed around a number of op-amps (LM301 for example) and a minimum of components - but to what advantage? Mr. Fletcher endorses the Little Labs device for excellent reasons and Kiwi endorses Radial for equally excellent reasons. Aside form those two consumer products the only alternate is to have your own piece of equipment designed to your desired specifications and thus vision of perfection. But for fun - rent either of the mentioned boxes from your local music store, try them - then if you are still not 100% happy purchase a $80 transformer as stated above, and try it for your self. IT is very easy to do - 1/4 inch female at one end and a 3 pin FXLR on the other end all in a metal box sitting atop your amplifyer.

And you will require two (2) separate untis - (1) = re-amp (1) = DI

Good luck.
Old 8th February 2012
  #16
Gear interested
 

+1 Little Labs. I use the Little Labs Multi Z PIP: Little Labs

Very versatile box with a great sounding DI.
Old 8th February 2012
  #17
Gear addict
 

LittleLabs Redeye
Old 8th February 2012
  #18
Baz
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Baz's Avatar
 

Avalon U5 going in, Radial X-Amp coming out. Where I used to work had a JD7 and it worked fine - overkill for most peoples needs - but really great. X-amp is the same circuit in a smaller pkg.
Old 8th February 2012
  #19
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wxyz View Post
LittleLabs Redeye
Same here. seems to work fine. Really versatile for the money. 3 boxes in one.
Old 8th February 2012
  #20
Gear Head
 

I know this is the high end forum and people here are willing to spend money, but isn't the quite expensive radial reamp boxes doing exacly what a regular DI box would do when hooked up in reverse?
Old 8th February 2012
  #21
Gear interested
 

Using Millennia TD1 and it's perfect for me
TD is the total solution, DI and Reamp are inside.
for accurate matching, need to use same maker's device for DI and Reamp

additionally TD1 has 2 output with different volume like Single coil/Humbacker
Old 8th February 2012
  #22
Gear nut
 

We're using a Raindirk Audio super DI. It's an active and passive DI, and re-amp in one, so sounds like it might fit the bill. It's also very nice sounding. I like the passive input for synths - the transformer seems to add just a nice roundness. For guitars, the active FET input works very well though.
Old 9th February 2012
  #23
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CompEq's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fimpen
isn't the quite expensive radial reamp boxes doing exacly what a regular DI box would do when hooked up in reverse?
No. that is a misconception. A DI = inst level -> mic level. The reverse of the is mic level -> instrument level. But that's not what you're doing when you reamp. It's Line level -> instrument level. See? Different. Yes, a DI can work for this application, but that's not what it was designed for and it is not an optimum solution.

See here for more detail: Reamp : History
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Old 21st June 2012
  #24
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Filthrill's Avatar
 

Might be wrong thread for this but just curious. Anyone doing any reamping w/ guitar pedals during mixdown? To add some color to some tracks like a hi hat or a vocal or whatever, not necessarily to just guitars. If so, what are some of the guitar pedals you are using for this? Any kool tricks, secrets??
Old 21st June 2012
  #25
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catfishmusic's Avatar
 

I've got the MW1 and it rules! I'd never get rid of it.
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Old 21st June 2012
  #26
I'm using my KPA (Kemper Profiling Amplifier) for this. Technically of course it's meant to just be a profiler/fx unit, but an undocumented feature is that you can reamp through it via S/PDIF to a real amp and take the return back through S/PDIF. For those of you with the KPA who've not tried this, just use the standard "Direct Out" on the back of the KPA and the return (or just use your normal interface input to get the result), you'll need to set it to Profiling Mode and then pick "Amp" as the source if you want to record the S/PDIF return from the real amp.

It's an expensive option but it also gives you the additional possibility of then profiling the signal chain to store for later re-use without setting up the mic's or firing up the actual amp in question should you wish which is hugely convenient. And the fact that it's got it's own convertors and runs through S/PDIF keeps the latency gap down nicely.
Old 22nd June 2012
  #27
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Filthrill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I'm using my KPA (Kemper Profiling Amplifier) for this. Technically of course it's meant to just be a profiler/fx unit, but an undocumented feature is that you can reamp through it via S/PDIF to a real amp and take the return back through S/PDIF. For those of you with the KPA who've not tried this, just use the standard "Direct Out" on the back of the KPA and the return (or just use your normal interface input to get the result), you'll need to set it to Profiling Mode and then pick "Amp" as the source if you want to record the S/PDIF return from the real amp.

It's an expensive option but it also gives you the additional possibility of then profiling the signal chain to store for later re-use without setting up the mic's or firing up the actual amp in question should you wish which is hugely convenient. And the fact that it's got it's own convertors and runs through S/PDIF keeps the latency gap down nicely.
Wow what a beast the KPA is. Expensive tho! Anybody use any pedals that are cheap like a Rat distortion pedal or Big Muff or others? I have a Radial Reamp box & looking to pick up some pedals just for doing weird ish during mixes.
Old 23rd June 2012
  #28
Gear nut
 
rumbletone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthrill View Post
Might be wrong thread for this but just curious. Anyone doing any reamping w/ guitar pedals during mixdown? To add some color to some tracks like a hi hat or a vocal or whatever, not necessarily to just guitars. If so, what are some of the guitar pedals you are using for this? Any kool tricks, secrets??
Absolutely!! EHX Q-tron, ZVex SeekWah, MXR Carbon Copy, Wah pedal, Vibe, Moog Murf (though it's not really a guitar pedal, and doesn't really need a re-amper - line level is fine for it), and disto/ODs all get used - I have one pedalboard just for this use that lives desk-height in my studio (though I regularly swap pedals between it and my gigging boards, depending on what's needed where from time to time - and I have multi power supplies on each board so for MOST pedals I don't need to find their specific wall wart and hook it up . . . ). Typically I'll go DAC->Radial ReAmper->pedal->DI->ADC, though in appropriate cases I'll run it into an amp and mic it, or just through a guitar pre-amp section (and then straight back into a DI).

I'm actually thinking of getting a Radial Workhorse Cube and loading it with the EXTC followed by an EQ (the GR Harrison?) and a compressor/limiter that will live next to my pedalboard, so I can run tracks (especially VIs) out through it and then print back to DAW with EQ and compression (or not, depending on what's called for).
Old 24th June 2012
  #29
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Filthrill's Avatar
 

That's hardcore. Gonna check some of these out. Was always interested in the MXR stuff. I think I'll look for one of those.
Old 11th May 2013
  #30
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Is the Radial X-AmpĀ® Active Re-Amplifier worth buying for this purpose? What other choices are there with an XLR input and 1/4 jack output (going from +4db to -10db)?
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