Mixing setup / converter update!

[tape_attack!!!]

hey.

i plan to update my mixing setup and it seems as if i also have to add another converter.
at the moment i have a lynx aurora 16.

my plan is to get a thermionic fat bustard for summing and some nice hardware compressors and eqs.

so i was wondering what would be the best solution for my situation.

i would like to use 12 output channels for the thermionic fat bustard summing.
it seems as if i have to route the hardware comps and eqs via the fx inserts in cubase because otherwise i couldnt use the processed tracks for the effekts sends because i wanna do all the reverbs etc itb.

so,...i will need 12 outputs for the summing,...and at least if i can get what i plan...
Manley Elop, pair of distressors, UBK fatso, thermionic culture vulture, API2500 and a stereo pair eqs.
i would like to use the stereo eq as my mixbus eq,...so maybe before or after the fat bustard.

and i need to print the stereo track back into cubase5.


so what do you think is the best solution for that?
getting a second aurora?
or should i sell the aurora and get 1 Apogee AD 16 and two APOGEE DA 16 ???
i like the aurora but after one year using it i am still not sure if its the best solution for me.

next thing is printing back the stereo track. shall i do that thru the converter or would it be better to get a "better" 2 channel AD converter for that?

thanks a lot!
cheers

[tape_attack!!!]

bump!

[HiFi Yeah]

I'm more or less doing what you are thinking about doing; send a full 16 out the interface, into 8 comps and 8 fx, sum in the mix buss followed by EQ and mix compressor, then back into the interface. I use a pair of Metric Halo LIO8s, sounds good, routing is mind blowing.

[Johnny Dance]

I started a seperate thread but thought I would combine this:

Hey all would love some thoughts/advice on where to go from here

I am currently using Cranesong Spider as my AD and Pres (they are fantastic) and will be keeping it (most likely). For DA at present I am using an Ensemble and an ADA 8000 for anyhting non essential

I am looking to upgrade DA's while making sure everything plays well with the CS (with AES and/or optical)

I also have a bricasti which I would love to continue to use both analouge (on an aux bus of my Audient desk) and digitally (to bounce some verbs etc...)

Any thoughts on what DA's to get? My general thought was

SSL Alpha SX or DA-16x. Anyone think, given the AES hookups I need (Spider, Bricasti) there is something else I should be thinking about? Don't want to go in to Burl £££$$$$ territory just yet

[tape_attack!!!]

once again!

i really dont come to that point where that whole otb mixing setup makes sense.

as before i plan to update my mixing setup with a summing amp and some analog hardware.

so two big questions!
my current converter is a LYNX Aurora 16.

THERMIONIC FAT BUSTARD
the bustard has 12 channels, but no inserts( i think only a master stereo out insert)that means, in case that i wanna use some outboard on the stems, i need to get a second lynx 16 so that i can put the hardware comps/EQs on the inserts in cubase (send/return) before i send it to the fat bustard.

NEVE Summing
that summing box has 16 channels, and inserts for all channels!
that means that i can send my stems to the neve and put my hardware on the inserts of the neve.
but in that case, i cant put a comp etc. to a single track in cubase.
so if i wanna put a distressor only on my snare track, i have to send the snare on a mono channel of the neve.
its also difficult with reverbs, when i process my snare drum OTB, but do the send to the reverb ITB, the unprocessed signal will hit the reverb.
i normally mix with busses so my snare is send to a Drumbus where i have a bus comp on it.
if a send the snare mono to the neve i cant use it on my drumbus.
there is also no possibility in that version to use the hardware comp before the make up plugin EQ.

i really need to know what makes the most sense bcauise i dont wanna spend so much money and maybe after a month a recognize that it doesnt make sense.
i wanna have a solid, versataile hybrid mixing setup!

[HiFi Yeah]

It's hard to know exactly what you are asking but I think what you are wanting is actually a patch bay!

Ahh now you are really getting into the analog fun hahaha (evil laugh)...

[FakeOnMercy]

Hi!

I'm also looking into a Fat Bustard and want to use it like this i.e.:

Kick > DAW OUT Channel 1 > Compressor A IN > Compressor A Out > Summing Mixer Input 1
Bass > DAW OUT Channel 2 > Compressor B IN > Compressor B Out > Summing Mixer Input 2
Synth > DAW OUT channel 3 > EQ A In > EQ A Out > Summing Mixer Input 3

or put the outboard compressors and eq on a Insert of the DAW and route the output of the DAW to the summing mixer, but then you need much more outputs on the converter and your sound go through more AD/DA stages

maybe this video is helpfull: ******//www.puremix.net/video/otherin...g-summing.html

SSL has a cool programmable patch bay: Solid State Logic | Music
this video is a good explanation: Review: SSL X-Patch Programmable Patchbay - YouTube

Hope that was helpfull

[Bassmankr]

How about just using the inserts on the summing mixer and a patchbay for flexibilty using your outboard units?

[puremix.net]

We just posted a new video about Analog Summing Setup.
Maybe you will find it useful: Puremix_Analog Summing setup

[psycho_monkey]

Hardware inserts direct to interface is the best way to integrate ITB mixing and hardware. If you then want a summing amp, the extra set of conversion is going to do way less damage than sending a vocal that's getting compressed at the summing stage, to a reverb pre-compression.

[tape_attack!!!]

i think the lynx will do the job.
using 12 outputs for the Fat bustard, two mono for distressor and 1176 and a stereo for the UBK Fatso.
at least i can still use a Mixbus EQ on the Master outs of the Fat Bustard.
do you think that this is a good Idea?

Fat Bustard
1/2 Drums
3/four gits
5/6 Bkg Vocals
7/8Synths etc
9/10 Effects
11 Bass
12 Main Vocals

would you send all the effects to a stereo bus together or would it be better to send the effects together with the instruments to the same bus?

1/2 Drums + effects
3/four gits + effects
etc.

cheers

@psycho monkey
i have seen that you worked in the motor museum before.
do you know for what sources mike use the fat bustard?

cheers

[naths101]

hey guys thought I'd throw in my 2c based on what I've used in other studios, what I'm currently doing in my mix room and what I'm planning to do in my mix room.
Hopefully I explain this easily enough, I'm not that good at talking about these kinds of things in writing!

Firstly I'd say for processing single channels (kick, snare, bass, vocal, lead guitar etc) use hardware inserts in your DAW (DA - hardware - AD).

For processing busses (drums, guitars, keys, BVs etc) you can either use hardware inserts the same way as I mentioned above OR you can use inserts on the summing mixer (DA - summing mixer - hardware - summing mixer) OR lastly between the outputs of your converter and the inputs of the summing mixer (DA - hardware - summing mixer).
The advantage of running the hardware as inserts on the summing mixer is that you can switch it in and out to compare the unprocessed and processed sounds and you're avoiding another round trip of DA-AD (not that another conversion stage really matters in the end... YMMV)

The same goes for 2buss processing, if your summing mixer has an insert on the mix buss use it so you can switch the processing in and out.


If you want to get a hybrid setup going now with summing and outboard, I'd agree with what HiFiYeah and Bassmankr suggested - get a patchbay to use with your lynx. Depending on what workflow is required for each project, patch in however many channels of outboard or summing is required.
If you're doing a project with lots of recalls, you may want to mainly use plugins instead of outboard. In this case you could patch 12 channels out of the lynx into the fat bustard and keep 4 free for outboard if desired.
If you're doing a project and have the flexibility of using outboard, you could patch in 8 channels of hardware inserts and 8 channels of summing.
Having a patchbay just opens up possibilities for your workflow.
Again, I would use DAW hardware inserts for single channels or busses otherwise use the hardware inserted on the summing mixer for busses.

When you're ready to expand your setup, buy a second converter (I would recommend another Aurora 16) and use one unit just for hardware inserts via a patchbay and use the other unit straight into the summing mixer, or again through a patchbay if it makes things easier for you.

Last week I bought the Burl B2 ADC which I'll use to print the mix back into my aurora 16 and protoolsHD. I'd much prefer using a nice 2ch ADC rather than using the lynx as it opens up the sonic possibilities, however I've still had good results using the aurora before I bought the B2.

As for how to send 'verbs to the summing mixer, for me it depends on how I'm compressing my busses (drums, BVs etc). I'll either send it with the dry signal to the mixer or send it out separately...

The thing is just to have a think about what you're trying to achieve and think of all the possible ways of doing it. Figure out the pros and cons for each method and do some tests. That's what I've been doing for years, even before I buy a bit of gear...

Enough of my rambling... hope you got something out of it!
nath