ITB: The Trouble with Outboard Preamps

[adirondack]

Hi,

Maybe you high enders can help me understand. I have a Pacifica preamp which I enjoy using. It is connected to an Apogee Ensemble line in (+4db). Here's the rub: When I bypass the Apogee and run the Pacifica into a board or a tape deck I can easily hit -6dBFS levels at around 10 or 11 o'clock on the Pacifica's gain. When I use the Ensemble to record ITB, because I am now hitting the Ensemble line in at +4db, my Pacifica's gain now has to be cranked up to around 2 o'clock to get the same -6dBFS level. This also creates a different coloration to the mic/pre signature. I feel like going to the Ensemble line in at +4 is attenuating the Pacifica's gain. Like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Should I be going line in to the Ensemble at -10 instead of +4?

[drBill]

First, don't fear going in at a lower level, and really, when you like the sound, cut it there. No need to boost to -6dBfs. If you cut everything that hot, you'll most likely end up pounding the mix buss, and that's not really what you want to be doing.

I don't know the ensemble, but are there trim pots for the inputs? Either on the back, front or perhaps inside? Most of the upper end PT interfaces have trim pots so you can calibrate according to your situation.

[adirondack]

Yeah, no trim pots on the ensemble, you just select mic/line and +4/-10. My issue isn't printing at -6 or -12. More, the fact that you have to crank the pres almost x2 higher when going into the Ensemble at +4 line level.

[superwack]

I'd test it with something else you know is putting out LINE level (maybe just patch an out to the in) and see what level you are getting... You'll have your answer as to the proper ensemble settings or if something else is going on

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by adirondack

Hi,

Maybe you high enders can help me understand. I have a Pacifica preamp which I enjoy using. It is connected to an Apogee Ensemble line in (+4db). Here's the rub: When I bypass the Apogee and run the Pacifica into a board or a tape deck I can easily hit -6dBFS levels at around 10 or 11 o'clock on the Pacifica's gain. When I use the Ensemble to record ITB, because I am now hitting the Ensemble line in at +4db, my Pacifica's gain now has to be cranked up to around 2 o'clock to get the same -6dBFS level. This also creates a different coloration to the mic/pre signature. I feel like going to the Ensemble line in at +4 is attenuating the Pacifica's gain. Like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Should I be going line in to the Ensemble at -10 instead of +4?

What are you feeding into the Pacifica to generate this "-6dBFs"?! What mic?

I use a pacifica coupled with a MOTU HD192 at one studio I work at (also via an 1176). When recording vocals (with a nominal 1176 setting of "10 to 2" on the input/output respectively), with an 87/149, I don't need the gain much past 9 o'clock to hit the computer just into the yellow on the PT meters. With an SM7, I need it more like 1-3 o'clock.

With a snare or loud guitar, I'd need less gain. With spoken vocal, I'd need more. All is relative.

BTW, the previous comments are right - if you're recording vocals at a constant level of -6dBFs, any slightly louder peaks are risking clipping. Peaking at -6 for a snare is fine...constant levels should be 6-10dB quieter. Standard practice for recording at 24bit.

[adirondack]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

What are you feeding into the Pacifica to generate this "-6dBFs"?! What mic?

I use a pacifica coupled with a MOTU HD192 at one studio I work at (also via an 1176). When recording vocals (with a nominal 1176 setting of "10 to 2" on the input/output respectively), with an 87/149, I don't need the gain much past 9 o'clock to hit the computer just into the yellow on the PT meters. With an SM7, I need it more like 1-3 o'clock.

With a snare or loud guitar, I'd need less gain. With spoken vocal, I'd need more. All is relative.

BTW, the previous comments are right - if you're recording vocals at a constant level of -6dBFs, any slightly louder peaks are risking clipping. Peaking at -6 for a snare is fine...constant levels should be 6-10dB quieter. Standard practice for recording at 24bit.

Good point. I am recording finger style guitar which requires more gain than pure strumming or other percussive instruments as you suggest. I would say I am at 12 to 1 o'clock on the Pacifica's gain. Perhaps this is a typical setting for this mic/instrumentation set-up?

[LPP]

What "board and tape deck" are you using?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by adirondack

Good point. I am recording finger style guitar which requires more gain than pure strumming or other percussive instruments as you suggest. I would say I am at 12 to 1 o'clock on the Pacifica's gain. Perhaps this is a typical setting for this mic/instrumentation set-up?

what mic? To me, this sounds totally normal, and nothing to worry about. Thats a relatively quiet source, and you're using approx half the gain available.

[Jimmy J]

I could be misinterpreting here, but when you say you run the Pacifica into a mixer or tape deck you get -6DBFS are you sure you don't mean -6DBVU? Because -6DBVU would equate to around -24DBFS in your DAW and that would explain why you need to crank the gain to get it to -6DBFS.