jdk audio vs what you are using

[Jimmy kiddo]

hey guys, i know that maybe i can not consider jdk stuff really high end ,but due to all the rumble mumble jumble this products are making ,and the lack of resources(in plain english no money,broke ,nada dinero) i am considering this gear as front end in my rack. so this is the question,right now i have the ensemble as main preamps,and i was thinking purchasing the r 20 preamp as a preamp option,i know people say they are really clean but i was thinking that maybe i could get them dirty with an old dbx 566 i have.compare to the amazing tools i sure you guys in the high end forum have, how does this little front end chain stand ? thanks in advance !

[paul999]

I've only used the Eq and thought it was pretty darned good. The thing about clean analog is that it has a smoothness that digital doesn't. The ensemble is a good piece of gear but the pres are not nice at all. I bet the JDK pre's are just fine. Do you really need 2 channels or pres right away. In the used end you could get into a lunch box and some killer pre's for about $1200-$1300. If you only need 1 pre you could do it for $800.

[quadrafunk]

I have the R22 comp. It is a nice unit. I wouldn't consider it low end. It has the API "thrust" circuit that keeps highs from being totally crushed by compression.

I've used the R22 alongside my 2 SSL alpha channels for tracking and strapped across the mixbuss of my X-Desk. It handled both with ease.

I'm sure the preamps are good. I've been thinking about filling a couple of slots in my lunchbox with the JDK 500 series eq's.

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by paul999

I've only used the Eq and thought it was pretty darned good. The thing about clean analog is that it has a smoothness that digital doesn't. The ensemble is a good piece of gear but the pres are not nice at all. I bet the JDK pre's are just fine. Do you really need 2 channels or pres right away. In the used end you could get into a lunch box and some killer pre's for about $1200-$1300. If you only need 1 pre you could do it for $800.

That is a good point ,I wanted 2 pres because I am starting to record drums in my place, and I assumed that 6 mics are more than enough if you know what you are doing, but at least I wanted the overheads to be the same kind of pres and wanted them a little better that the ensemble pres,. If JDK. Pres are slightly better than the ensemble I figure I could have a very decent drum kit sound.

[paul999]

Originally Posted by Jimmy kiddo

That is a good point ,I wanted 2 pres because I am starting to record drums in my place, and I assumed that 6 mics are more than enough if you know what you are doing, but at least I wanted the overheads to be the same kind of pres and wanted them a little better that the ensemble pres,. If JDK. Pres are slightly better than the ensemble I figure I could have a very decent drum kit sound.

I've been very spoiled in the pre department for a long time. I own a D&R console and the pre's are not very revered in that at all. I also own a focusrite 2802 with audient mic pre's that the "snobs", like I used to be, think suck. I had so many other top pre's that I never even tried them out. One day for fun I decided to try the ensemble pre's along side my D&R, audient, API, Shadowhills, and a bunch of others. The results was that I really liked my cleaner pres far more then I thought I would. My D&R pre's actually beat out the API on guitar in the application that I was recording. The first thing I plugged the ensemble pre into was snare but I was having a heck of a time tracing down what was degrading the signal. There was such a lack of bottom end that I was convinced something was broken. It turns out the ensemble pre's just do not live up to the high end pre's.

This lesson of finding out that "cleaner" type pre's are great leads me to believe that the JDK will be excellent. You may also like ISA's and you can get 2 cheaper then the JDK. They have nice color are great on overheads and beat out a lot of other pre's for vocals. The true solo stuff could also work for you.

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by quadrafunk

I have the R22 comp. It is a nice unit. I wouldn't consider it low end. It has the API "thrust" circuit that keeps highs from being totally crushed by compression.

I've used the R22 alongside my 2 SSL alpha channels for tracking and strapped across the mixbuss of my X-Desk. It handled both with ease.

I'm sure the preamps are good. I've been thinking about filling a couple of slots in my lunchbox with the JDK 500 series eq's.

If the 500 series different to the stereo eq? (the r24)

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by paul999

I've been very spoiled in the pre department for a long time. I own a D&R console and the pre's are not very revered in that at all. I also own a focusrite 2802 with audient mic pre's that the "snobs", like I used to be, think suck. I had so many other top pre's that I never even tried them out. One day for fun I decided to try the ensemble pre's along side my D&R, audient, API, Shadowhills, and a bunch of others. The results was that I really liked my cleaner pres far more then I thought I would. My D&R pre's actually beat out the API on guitar in the application that I was recording. The first thing I plugged the ensemble pre into was snare but I was having a heck of a time tracing down what was degrading the signal. There was such a lack of bottom end that I was convinced something was broken. It turns out the ensemble pre's just do not live up to the high end pre's.

This lesson of finding out that "cleaner" type pre's are great leads me to believe that the JDK will be excellent. You may also like ISA's and you can get 2 cheaper then the JDK. They have nice color are great on overheads and beat out a lot of other pre's for vocals. The true solo stuff could also work for you.

Thanks man, all this info is a relevation for me!, so if you had no chance but to go with the set up I mentioned before , you wouldn't use endembles pres for kick and snare ..am I right?

[drumdrumdrumdrum]

I have the JDK pre and use them with synths all the time. They are tube, but clean tube. They still sound like tubes. I've pushed mine to get more "tube-ie". With a pair of good ribbons I can't see why you could not get an awesome drum sound with just three mics.

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by drumdrumdrumdrum

I have the JDK pre and use them with synths all the time. They are tube, but clean tube. They still sound like tubes. I've pushed mine to get more "tube-ie". With a pair of good ribbons I can't see why you could not get an awesome drum sound with just three mics.

You just read my mind , that was I was asking to Paul for the primary use of ensemble pres in my situation , maybe more room mics and a couple JDK in snare and kick and voila!

[quadrafunk]

Originally Posted by Jimmy kiddo

If the 500 series different to the stereo eq? (the r24)

The specs on their site say that both are modeled after the same eq. Both are 4 band with tranny on the outs....etc, but could very well sound different.

Some have expressed that 500 series stuff doesn't sound the same to them. It'd be interesting to demo both to see.

[paul999]

Originally Posted by Jimmy kiddo

You just read my mind , that was I was asking to Paul for the primary use of ensemble pres in my situation , maybe more room mics and a couple JDK in snare and kick and voila!

Depending on if you are using any sample replacing or not. If you have 2 good pre's you can make samples of your own kit with a great signal chain and then use the pre on overheads for recording time. If your not using samples then I'd say snare and kick would be the money for 2 pre's.

The trouble with placing the cheapest pre on a room mic is that even though the track often gets highly compressed it still needs to sound good. In fact it is harder to get it to sound good and my more expensive chains often get used on room mic's.

[drumdrumdrumdrum]

I was thinking of the ribbon OH > JDK and a sub kick going into an API pre that you will blow the rest of your $$$ on ;-)

[dpalasini]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is not a single tube in the mic pre. It is based off of the same ATI Paragon console as the compressor. Fully solid state. Still a very nice clean utility pre. If you can't make a good recording with it, then it ain't the pre that's your problem!!

[Jimmy kiddo]

So, so far for what I've read .... JDK lives the expectation and not too much love for ensemble pres....Paul, I will be using slate for drum replacement , but your idea of own sampling is just genius ! Thanks for the tip.

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by drumdrumdrumdrum

I was thinking of the ribbon OH > JDK and a sub kick going into an API pre that you will blow the rest of your $$$ on ;-)

All the API models I've seen so far are channel strips correct me if I'm wrong ! .... How much money do you you have to throw to get and nice used API single pre?

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by dpalasini

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is not a single tube in the mic pre. It is based off of the same ATI Paragon console as the compressor. Fully solid state. Still a very nice clean utility pre. If you can't make a good recording with it, then it ain't the pre that's your problem!!

So the idea of getting the clean JDK pre through a old Dbx 566 for a little sat flavor is not that crazy , am I right?

[drumdrumdrumdrum]

How did I get that so wrong?! I thought I got a tube pre? I've been wondering why it is so clean? Haha

[Magic Alex]

I once owned the dual pre, back when it was 'Arsenal Audio'. I wouldn't call it low end at all. Very nice pres. They had that similar chest-thumping "thwak" when transient lightly kiss the overload section. Personally, I loved mine.

I sold mine because the PCB would heat up after 30 mins and the pres would lose about 20db of signal. I had it repaired, but it started again. I had it repaired, then sold it. I'd buy again, but I don't have confidence in them. I'll just pay more for API.

[Audio Hombre]

the ensemble pre's (ti pga2500's) are higher tier i.c. pre's and not bad. actually, quite respected by many and same as found in the prism orpheus and rme ufx for e.g. not exciting but very good headroom and quite linear. i'd personally use the ensemble pre's for overs and use you new pres for kik snare.

[dpalasini]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalasini View Post
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is not a single tube in the mic pre. It is based off of the same ATI Paragon console as the compressor. Fully solid state. Still a very nice clean utility pre. If you can't make a good recording with it, then it ain't the pre that's your problem!!
So the idea of getting the clean JDK pre through a old Dbx 566 for a little sat flavor is not that crazy , am I right?

Crazy? No way! Sounds like fun to me

[paul999]

A single API 512c pre is $525 ish used and a lunch box for $375 used.

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by dpalasini

Crazy? No way! Sounds like fun to me

Nice !!! Just needed the assurance !lol

[C.r.a.p.]

Me and the members of my band were in the process of recording a cd. Avalaible pre's were the Apogee ensemble's, UA 610, Focusrite Trakmaster, Api A2D and two ISA one's. After some experimenting this was the final set up:

Ensemble on toms
Isa's on overheads
A2D on snare and bassdrum

A2D works wonders on a sm57 and an e902.

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by paul999

A single API 512c pre is $525 ish used and a lunch box for $375 used.

That is not bad at all, and would improve the sound against the JDK I suppose!

[paul999]

Originally Posted by Jimmy kiddo

That is not bad at all, and would improve the sound against the JDK I suppose!

I'd rather have the API but then again I love API.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by paul999

Do you really need 2 channels or pres right away. In the used end you could get into a lunch box and some killer pre's for about $1200-$1300. If you only need 1 pre you could do it for $800.

Along those lines, if you have any soldering skills you can build a Hamptone HJFP2 for $720--which gives you 2 channels. They have a good amount of gain, are pretty low noise when cranked (i use them for ribbons lately), and have a DI on the front (both channels, great for keyboards, etc). They also have the cool retro 50's / military / RCA staff / lunchbox vibe the JDK stuff has. They are clean, with little color, at lower gain but as you drive the JFET it gets some very tube-like harmonics so there is nice variety in one box. I used to own some nice preamps (ISA428, Hardy M1, RNP). I sold them all to simplify and got a second Hamptone. If i was in your position and could only buy one preamp, but had future knowledge, i would get the Hamptone.

As an aside, there was a guy that contacted me because i was a Hamptone customer (Scott forwarded my info with my permission) and wanted to try the Hamptone i assembled. He was considering that, a DW Fearn, NPNG, and Hardy M1 (which i also lent to him). He got to go to a studio and did some singing and acoustic guitar playing with all those preamps and gave me the files. Without even knowing which was which i picked the Hamptone as being more interesting and having better information in the sound. I could never figure out why he didn't want to buy one. He liked the Hardy better.

Somewhat cheaper, though i have never used it, the Audient Mico can be had for under $500 used. If you need to go really cheap check out the M-Audio DMP3 or used RNP and spend money on good mics.

In my not-pro experience i think the "quality vs. value" order of importance is:
1. performer / instrument quality
2. room
3. mic
4. preamp
5. converter

[Jimmy kiddo]

Originally Posted by spiral

Along those lines, if you have any soldering skills you can build a Hamptone HJFP2 for $720--which gives you 2 channels. They have a good amount of gain, are pretty low noise when cranked (i use them for ribbons lately), and have a DI on the front. They also have the cool retro 50's / military / RCA staff / lunchbox vibe the JDK stuff has. They are clean, with little color, at lower gain but as you drive the JFET it gets some very tube-like harmonics so there is nice variety in one box. I used to own some nice preamps (ISA428, Hardy M1, RNP). I sold them all to simplify and got a second Hamptone. If i was in your position and could only buy one preamp, but had future knowledge, i would get the Hamptone.

As an aside, there was a guy that contacted me because i was a Hamptone customer (Scott forwarded my info with my permission) and wanted to try the Hamptone i assembled. He was considering that, a DW Fearn, NPNG, and Hardy M1 (which i also lent to him). He got to go to a studio and did some singing and acoustic guitar playing with all those preamps and gave me the files. Without even knowing which was which i picked the Hamptone as being more interesting and having better information in the sound. I could never figure out why he didn't want to buy one. He liked the Hardy better.

If you need to go really cheap check out the M-Audio DMP3 or used RNP and spend money on good mics.

In my not-pro experience i think the "quality vs. value" order of importance is:
1. performer / instrument quality
2. room
3. mic
4. preamp
5. converter

Man , it's amazing all the things I have learned in this tread , thanks a lot to all of you guys. By the way your order of importance chain really makes me think in others perspectives of the situation.nice input.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by spiral

In my not-pro experience i think the "quality vs. value" order of importance is:
1. performer / instrument quality
2. room
3. mic
4. preamp
5. converter

'the list'

[Tommi6000]

Originally Posted by quadrafunk

I have the R22 comp. It is a nice unit. I wouldn't consider it low end. It has the API "thrust" circuit that keeps highs from being totally crushed by compression.

I've used the R22 alongside my 2 SSL alpha channels for tracking and strapped across the mixbuss of my X-Desk. It handled both with ease.

I'm sure the preamps are good. I've been thinking about filling a couple of slots in my lunchbox with the JDK 500 series eq's.

R22 is a really nice comp, I was really surprised how useful it is, works wonders almost on everything. It has a good "smack" when overcompressing for example snares and great "thump" when compressing drum buss or for example house music. Great for electronical stuff..

JDK's eq is a really cool tool as well, used it in studios and for live sound. Not so accurate but it does sound extremely pleasant for individual tracks and mixdowns.

Preamps are good as well, cant think anything bad about it. Not so mindblowing but it does it's thing and have it's own sound. Used it for vocals, drums (kick&snare) and guitars and was happy with the outcome.

We have Api A2D as well and I'm familiar with API2500. Yeah they are different, Api A2D sounds better when pushed hard and has more detail and Api 2500 is way smoother then R22. But I wouldn't worry about the quality of JDk, you can make good quality records with their products without stressing that you are missing something important..

[Jimmy kiddo]

So how about this: if you had to chose between JDK r 22 and Dbx 566 chain or UA 4-710 as front end for tracking anything, which way you 'd rather to go?