Best Recording Studio Equipment?

[Weezyanna]

This is my first post on gearslutz, so I hope I did this correct...
I am looking to upgrade my studio from a home to a professional level.
I am looking for gear suggestions on the high end to help me get a good sound.
Mostly Rap, Pop, Classic Rock, and Blues will be recorded.
What I have now...
-Mac G5 with Pro Tools HD 7 and 192 Rack
-RME Babyface
-Neumann TLM103
-Shure Beta SM58
-Motif 61 Key
-NI Maschine
-61 key hammer action midi controller
-Virus TI (without Keys)
-Stedman Proscreen

Whats On the List (Please Critique)
-Prism Sound Orpheus
-SSL XDesk
-Avalon 737 Preamp
-Manley Voxbox
-EPI Fatso JR, Lil Freq, and Distressor
-Avid artist mix and artist control
-Rockbox MC 5X (for vesatility) with FL Studio 10, Cuebase 6, Pro Tools 10 and Samplitude 11
-Neumann u87Ai
-Coles 4038
-Blue Woodpecker
-Neumann KM 184
-Earthworks QTC40
-Good Mic Stand
-MPC 5000
-Good studio monitors under $2000

My budget for the extra stuff is no more than $35000
Please help me with what to get as I have learned recording through experience, not education.
Thanks

[Mojo Man]

I would take a serious look at some higher end tube mics like a Peluso or Wunder and perhaps a good pair of small diaphragm condenser mics like the Geffel M300. I would then think about throwing in a good stereo pair of preamps like the Green River MP-2NV.

[robertshaw]

I would stay clear of a u87 ai model

[Mojo Man]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

I would stay clear of a u87 ai model

I'll second that!

[Weezyanna]

What do you think would be a good mic then to replace the u87Ai?
One of the sounds I was looking for was with a u87, and some of my favorite recordings were done with them. What would be a better idea instead of the Ai to get that sound?

[jpupo74]

35k is what you'll have to spend on materials for a good tracking room plus a good mixing room, unless you already have it?
Cheers,
Pupo

[Weezyanna]

I have the room already set up and treated so that shouldn't be a problem.

[jpupo74]

I think you should always buy most of the things in pairs unless they are dual units.

Replace the 184 and the U87...
Maybe a pair of Schoeps bodies with 21 capsules.
Coles is nice...
I don't know about the Avalon man...but I hear rap vocals love the unit.
I will get a top notch mic for vocals, think wunder or brauner.
I also don't see plugins on your list?
I suggest sound toys bundle and masssey plugs.

I've covered compression bases with
Manley VariMu
Api2500
Mc77
LA2A

I think those are classics.

Looking forward to buying a Fatso.

Hope this helps!
Pupo

[Weezyanna]

What Brauner/Wunder would you recommend?
And thanks for the other recomendations.

[Mojo Man]

Originally Posted by Weezyanna

What do you think would be a good mic then to replace the u87Ai?
One of the sounds I was looking for was with a u87, and some of my favorite recordings were done with them. What would be a better idea instead of the Ai to get that sound?

If I were you, I would probably save up a few extra bucks and go straight for a Wunder CM67. I believe they are mostly backordered for now, but they are well worth the wait and extra cash. The 67 is a real workhouse in the studio and can work well on many different sources (acoustic and electric guitars, drums, vocals, etc.). Of course, the best thing to do would be to find a demo and try it out in your own studio.

[AllAboutTone]

No API/ Neve type pres/eqs ?

[toneguru]

Bock 241. I have a friend that got one brand new for $3k and he is extremely happy. Great singer with great ears and not easily impressed but he loves it.

Also, there are some Avedis mic pre's goin used and I would snatch em up if I needed pre's.

[phatbeatstudio]

SERIOUSLY all that gear won't get a good result if your mixing on lower end monitors
I swithed from MACKIE 824 mk2 to Barefoot MM27 and music is so much fun again.
I actually can trust my decisions knowing it is accurate. I always wondered why my mixes suck before know I know. If you can't hear the music accurately how can you pretend to mix it accuratly it must be by mistake cause $2000 isn't gonna cut it
Im gonna get ripped on big time for that but I don't care BIG FOOT,s a mith but BAREFOOT is legend
Everybody with your NS10s don't take it personal

[Weezyanna]

I don't want to spend the money to get mm27s but how about a pair under $6000?
Whats the best in that price range?

[sleepyhollos]

Originally Posted by Weezyanna

What do you think would be a good mic then to replace the u87Ai?
One of the sounds I was looking for was with a u87, and some of my favorite recordings were done with them. What would be a better idea instead of the Ai to get that sound?

Friend. The u87ai model is O.K. Actually, it's more than O.K. It's a great pro sounding microphone and it does have that u87 vibe. Admittedly it isn't a vintage unit and doesn't sound exactly like one but in the same respect, a 70s u87 and and 80s u87 don't sound the same. I've used both side by side and there is a difference but you can do a damn good recording with either and anyone who tells you that you can't get great results from an ai probably has been trawling Gearslut threads for too long and is just regurgitating stuff they have read without using the mic.

All that said, a u87ai is a bit epensive for what it is.

[waldie wave]

You will also need a good reverb unit like a Bricasti (in addition to the preamps, compressors, mics, monitors). The Soundtoys bundle should be fine for delays, flangers, choruses, pitch, etc (as suggested above). The Massey plugins are very good too (as suggested above). You will also need a decent EQ like a Massive Passive, Hammer EQ2, GML, etc. I have made some great recordings with U87ais and 184s. However, behind the mics are great preamps. Having said that there are probably different mics out there that may have been better but I was happy with the results. There is a huge difference between a Beta 58 and U87 yet both can produce excellent recordings. It is not a bad thing to have an arsenal of tried and tested mics at your disposal.

[jpupo74]

Dude I just realized you have no monitoring system...after the room this will come second.
Good set of speakers (amp if needed) and a monitor controller plus great convertion.
Rest is BS
Cheers,
Pupo

[jpupo74]

start here...
Proac Speakers with Bryston 3B SST 2 PRO Power Amp | VintageKing.com

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by phatbeatstudio

If you can't hear the music accurately how can you pretend to mix it accuratly it must be by mistake cause $2000 isn't gonna cut it
Im gonna get ripped on big time for that but I don't care BIG FOOT,s a mith but BAREFOOT is legend
Everybody with your NS10s don't take it personal

Well, really you just need to know your monitoring situation really really well.

Theoretically.

On the other hand if you like to actually hear what you are doing, it's difficult to argue with the MM27's.

OP, I'm loving my new Flea 47 for vocals. I hated Pelusos way back when, and my Brauner VM1, though a fine mic may, end up getting sold to fund my next Aurora Audio purchase.

I'd consider something from them by the way - you're set on the SSL, so maybe you might like their compressor:
GTC2 | Aurora Audio

[phatbeatstudio]

Originally Posted by Weezyanna

I don't want to spend the money to get mm27s but how about a pair under $6000?
Whats the best in that price range?

Honestly I don't have any knowledge of high end speakers so opinion is I don't have one. All I am trying to say is , in the past I had a very difficult time getting decent mix,s I had to reference everything over and again to obsession.
So I came to the conclusion that my monitors were just not giving a accurate representation of what was actually going on. So I wanted better monitors.
I was looking into the ADAM S3X H (having never heard it) while trying to find reasons to buy it this Barefootmm27 kept popping up time and again everybody on all sorts of forums saying how much better they are than the S3X H so i thought its only about $2500 more so I took the plunge . I don't know if either of these speakers are good for the money all I know is I can hear the things in my music that I never could before, it has been the best investment I ever made without doubt If you think about it we all own all this fancy gear but in the studio the MONITORs are the only piece of gear you actually hear. I wish you knew how reassuring it is to know I hear my music as detailed as any studio in the world. (my room still sucks)
I am very sure you can get great monitors for $6000 new but I bet you could get better ones for $4000 used. If you are really spending all that money on the fancy toys don't forget about the part you hear the music through! thats what matters. I will take Digi 003 and my Barefoots over HD and my old Mackies anyday I just wanted to hear the music pure and now I do the Barefoots are great but so is something less maybe not as great but still great.
If you can spring the extra do it. GENELECs sell used all the time if you spent $4000 used you would have something amazing
but $2000 monitors for the studio you are building would be your biggest handy cap by far crappy speaker crappy result (my experience)

[psycho_monkey]

I think you should take some of your budget, and hire a studio consultant 1 on 1 so you're not just buying random stranger's favourite pieces.

For example - I don't know why you're looking at 3 different DAWs that all do broadly the same thing. Buy one and learn it well.

Your preamp suggestions are love/hate. Many love the avalon; many hate it; a lot think it's just overpriced for what it is.

As has been pointed out, 1 KM184 or 4038 is less than half as useful as a pair.

Why are you keen to get an MPC? you already have Maschine...most people looking to rent a studio and who use MPCs will have their own; realistically no-one's going to rent a studio and think "let's have a go with the MPC" if they've never used one before, which means unless it's for your own programming use (and you've used one before therefore know it suits you), it's going to sit in the corner most of the time.

If you're buying a DAW controller like the Euphonix, having faders on your summing box is largely redundant. Essentially you'll have a few random boxes dotted over your workdesk, with gain staging complications. I'd replace the X-desk with a summing amp.

Your monitoring budget is IMO below what you should be looking at given the rest of the gear.

And of course, unless you know how to use it all, gear isn't going to get you a "good" sound. In fact, buying a whole load of new gear all at once could be a step backwards.

But again - just a few random thoughts from a random stranger. Dropping $35k on the suggestion of random strangers who don't know you, your working methods or your situation is a bit daft if you ask me. Go ahead like this, and I'd wager about a third of your purchases will be a waste of money.

[baskervils]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

I would stay clear of a u87 ai model

I love this mic.

[tiny333]

We keep on doing peoples homework for them dont we

I would fail you btw

[Kaoz]

Good musicians.

[phatbeatstudio]

Originally Posted by baskervils

I love this mic.

So do I great mic. If you own a U87 of any kind you will know why everybody's so jealous of it. There could be a better mic for the cash but I don't know what it is so Im very happy with mine I would love an anouther for overheads or so I could try the m/s technique. Don't hesitate on this mic its well worth it. Buy some used stuff your money will go twice as far
You could get a U87 and km184 pair used for the price of a U87 new thats savings

[djp]

Originally Posted by sleepyhollos

Friend. The u87ai model is O.K. Actually, it's more than O.K. It's a great pro sounding microphone and it does have that u87 vibe. Admittedly it isn't a vintage unit and doesn't sound exactly like one but in the same respect, a 70s u87 and and 80s u87 don't sound the same. I've used both side by side and there is a difference but you can do a damn good recording with either and anyone who tells you that you can't get great results from an ai probably has been trawling Gearslut threads for too long and is just regurgitating stuff they have read without using the mic.

All that said, a u87ai is a bit epensive for what it is.

I agree w/ sleepyhollos. If you find a good price for the 87ai, grab it. It's a great mic that will sit well in the mix. The good: it's warm enough, consistent, and a neumann. Holds value pretty well too. The bad: it has a mid bump that isn't the prettiest. And a little less headroom than the older ones. I've compared. Just don't push it - and in the mix, it takes eq well with little effort. I like that. The little effort part. Use with a good pre like an MA5 or Fearn and see if you like it. I do. But I like my $300 SM7 just as much!

[Jim Williams]

Define best.

[Dr.Frank]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Why are you keen to get an MPC? you already have Maschine...most people looking to rent a studio and who use MPCs will have their own; realistically no-one's going to rent a studio and think "let's have a go with the MPC" if they've never used one before, which means unless it's for your own programming use (and you've used one before therefore know it suits you), it's going to sit in the corner most of the time.

This. Not sure why you would get the MPC when you have Maschine. At least buy a dust cover for it since it probably won't get much use with a bad ass product like the Maschine sitting around. If you don't have the newest NI Komplete, I would definitely recommend that as it goes perfectly with the Maschine. I would also go with a good 88 key weighted controller for the grand piano libraries in Komplete. Also a secondary controller like the new Akai MPK stuff so that you have something with a good synth action (actually your Motif could probably fill this role well).

May also want to invest in a solid drum set. Something high end with good cymbals. That way you'll know the set well and will probably get really good at recording it. On that note, a solid line-up of guitar amps and a few good guitars could go a long way so that you're not always having to deal with musicians who own less than stellar gear. If you have connections in the local music community, you can make some side money backlining this type of stuff, too.

[Weezyanna]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

I think you should take some of your budget, and hire a studio consultant 1 on 1 so you're not just buying random stranger's favourite pieces.

For example - I don't know why you're looking at 3 different DAWs that all do broadly the same thing. Buy one and learn it well.

Your preamp suggestions are love/hate. Many love the avalon; many hate it; a lot think it's just overpriced for what it is.

As has been pointed out, 1 KM184 or 4038 is less than half as useful as a pair.

Why are you keen to get an MPC? you already have Maschine...most people looking to rent a studio and who use MPCs will have their own; realistically no-one's going to rent a studio and think "let's have a go with the MPC" if they've never used one before, which means unless it's for your own programming use (and you've used one before therefore know it suits you), it's going to sit in the corner most of the time.

If you're buying a DAW controller like the Euphonix, having faders on your summing box is largely redundant. Essentially you'll have a few random boxes dotted over your workdesk, with gain staging complications. I'd replace the X-desk with a summing amp.

Your monitoring budget is IMO below what you should be looking at given the rest of the gear.

And of course, unless you know how to use it all, gear isn't going to get you a "good" sound. In fact, buying a whole load of new gear all at once could be a step backwards.

But again - just a few random thoughts from a random stranger. Dropping $35k on the suggestion of random strangers who don't know you, your working methods or your situation is a bit daft if you ask me. Go ahead like this, and I'd wager about a third of your purchases will be a waste of money.

I have raised my monitor budget to 6000, I have gotten rid of the X-Desk, demoed a bunch of stuff from the list I have build up through the forum, replaced the euphonix, switched around mic choices, dropped the MPC, and my new gear list to pick from is this:

-Best monitors I can find under 6000 (anyone know about klien and hummels or mm35s?)
All but one of the following
-Neumann U87ai
-Wunder cm67
-Schoeps cm6 with mk21 capsule
-coles 4038
-Beesneez Arabella
-Brauner Phantom V
-Malnley Ref C

-Rockbox MC5x with only cuebase and fl studio
-Empirical Labs Distressor
-Prism Sound Orpheus
-Bricasti Model 7
-Slate Pro Audio Dragon
-Lynx Aurora 8 FW

Two of the following:
-Avalon 737
-Crane Song Flamingo
-UA 6176
-Presonus ADL 600
-Millenia STT1
-GML 2032
-Some other nice preamp or channel strip

Some nice EQ

A soundtoys bundle (Which one?)

Some sound samples

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Drop the u87ai, and get an old 87 with battery holder. Spend a little to get it recapped, and the diaphragm checked out.

THAT is the 87 sound you love, not the ai.
In my humble opinion of course.

I have had them side by side, and I can't see why people say there is no difference? Maybe all the ai's I have heard were busted?

Good luck man,
john

PS: Also, $35,000 is not going to get "the best". Right away the thread premise is a little skewed.
Screwed?

It should be: "The best studio I can build for $35,000?"