which 500 series preamp has the best transient response?

[dmb10]

I'm looking to invest in a stereo pre setup for a pair of sr30 earthworks and am wondering if anyone is using 500 series pre's with these mics and how they like them. I don't want a very clean sounding module, but the transient response must be very good (using them as drum overheads). At the moment I'm looking at purple and a-designs, but found no information regarding their transient response here on gearslutz. If anyone could lead me in the right direction to a great sounding 'fast' 500 series pre it would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Jeremy

[safe as milk]

id suggest u wait for the john hardy 500 pre if it's overhead use
the new biz ma pre looks good but id say the hardy
there was a thread on it in the new gear forum i think

[max cooper]

Any reason not to consider API's?

I think one could safely say that they've been used on a jillion recordings of drumsets.

[MIKEHARRIS]

The Hardy's always wonderful..esp vocals...but the API has an agressive sound thats hard to beat...no matter how many times others try

[mjlaudio]

When do these come out. I need to fill the lunchbox and I love the M1-2 pres

[John Hardy]

When do these come out. I need to fill the lunchbox and I love the M1-2 pres

I will be making three mic preamp cards:

1. An M-1 style card.
2. An M-2 style card.
3. A Jensen Twin Servo style card.

I'm well along the way with the Jensen Twin Servo design. I started with it because it is the most difficult (two 990C op-amps vs. one 990C for the M-1 and M-2). The M1 and M-2 will follow quickly. I hope I will have the designs done in the next 30-60 days. Thank you.

John Hardy
The John Hardy Co.
www.johnhardyco.com

[NathanEldred]

You may want to give this a consideration, since Buzz Audio is known for having VERY fast preamps, in general.

******//www.buzzaudio.com/products/elixir.htm

[clusterchord]

Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS

The Hardy's always wonderful..esp vocals...but the API has an agressive sound thats hard to beat...no matter how many times others try

i ve heard records done with these, and i ve heard this recommendaiton numerous times, but.. is this the prime candidate for all-style durms, or mostly for agressive , inyourface type of thing ??

in other words, what would work for easier stuff - like jazz drums, brush, hand percussion.. bossa/lounge type thing ?? API again, or ?


im about to dwelve into world of eisen kits too, and first thought of making api-based clone, perhaps use 990 later on .. so many options..


thnx

[Drumsound]

Shiny Box (the ribbon import co) was showing 2 pres for the 500 designed by Brad Avenson at TapeOpCon. One is transformerless and might be a really great cost effective alternative.

[nandoanalog]

Originally Posted by max cooper

Any reason not to consider API's?

I think one could safely say that they've been used on a jillion recordings of drumsets.

Listen to what he said.

[ShinyBox]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Shiny Box (the ribbon import co) was showing 2 pres for the 500 designed by Brad Avenson at TapeOpCon. One is transformerless and might be a really great cost effective alternative.

Just to clarify, Brad and I are working together on a discrete mic pre with transformers in and out, but the transformerless mic pre you speak of is not of his design.

Regards

ju

[Tim Farrant]

If you are really interested in transient response, you should ask the manufacturer to give you the slew rate spec, it is real easy to measure. But, in order to be meaningful, the slew rate needs to be measured at a sensible output level like +10dBu, not -20dBu. A slew rate spec given without the output level at which it is measured is meaningless.

Which reminds me, I have some measuring to do!

Tim.

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

You may want to give this a consideration, since Buzz Audio is known for having VERY fast preamps, in general.

The Elixir 500 VPR series compatible preamplifier

+1

the elixir is amazingly true to the source but still manages to flatter it in the bottom end in a way i cant get enough of

[pan60]

+2

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by dmb10

I'm looking to invest in a stereo pre setup for a pair of sr30 earthworks and am wondering if anyone is using 500 series pre's with these mics and how they like them. I don't want a very clean sounding module, but the transient response must be very good (using them as drum overheads). At the moment I'm looking at purple and a-designs, but found no information regarding their transient response here on gearslutz. If anyone could lead me in the right direction to a great sounding 'fast' 500 series pre it would be greatly appreciated.

First off the SR-30's have pretty high self noise for that kind of a microphone so you may want to examine a mic system with a better signal to noise ratio... but I digress.

Transient response is another matter of aesthetic. Tens of thousands of AMAZING sounding recordings have been made employing mics and pre's without the worlds greatest transient response "spec"... a "specification" is just a "specification"... it has NOTHING to do with the sound of anything.

At least in my world, I record music. Been at this 30 something years still haven't recorded a specification but I suppose there is still time. However, in that 30 years I've recorded quite a bit of music... and in that 30 years I've found that it's more about how the equipment you choose compliments the music than anything else.

My advice to you would be to step away from the "audio forums" [where most people are either plugging products or rationalizing their latest purchase] and go listen to this stuff.

There is going to be a great big exposition where pretty much all this stuff will be represented. It will be in New York from October 5th through the 8th. I will be more than happy to send you passes to the exposition if you'd like... and I believe you can get passes through this site if you're interested in doing some of the intial homework.

Bring your SR 30's with you [you'll have to check them in so you can get them out of the hall]... bring a set of keys with you... jangle the keys in front of the mic while listening through the pre-amps you're considering for purchase. The one that makes those keys sound best for you is probably going to be an excellent starting point as you fill your 500 series frame.

Anything else anyone has to say on the subject is really just conjecture for your reality, an affirmation of their reality, or sales horseshit.

Go to the show, pick out a few that interest you... order them. Try them in your studio, on your music and determine which [if any] please your sense of aesthetic.

If you're serious about doing your homework... well that's the way real homework is done. If you want to watch a neat thread develop on Gearslutz where folks talk about their experiences [which you have probably never heard, nor shall you ever hear] then you're off to a great start... but NOTHING compares to direct experience.

Peace.

[84K]

Originally Posted by max cooper

Any reason not to consider API's?

I think one could safely say that they've been used on a jillion recordings of drumsets.

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

Listen to what he said.

Exactly.


For some reason people on gearslutz always want the "latest" "most talked about" gear, and then they ask how to get sounds like the old days. That always cracks me up.

If anyone has an API rack that they are filling with gear, my advice is to make sure that you have a few of the real thing before you get nutty with all these new 500 series modules from all these other companies. API does API best.

[MIKEHARRIS]

Your eyes dont hear mic pres...Listen...as Fletcher said !!


Are you recording music or making a sample CD ??

[pan60]

i agree with Fletcher, their is no substitute for hear a piece of gear.
i know that is not always possible, but, most reputable dealers will let you addition gear, if one pre dose not cut it for you they will let you trade for something else.
build a relationship with a rep it will go a long ways for you.
now having said that i own or have auditioned and or reviewed a very large number of 500 format pres and i will say that so far all the ones i have had in here have been very good and you could get just about any one of them and be fine.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by 84K

If anyone has an API rack that they are filling with gear, my advice is to make sure that you have a few of the real thing before you get nutty with all these new 500 series modules from all these other companies. API does API best.

I wonder if people viewed 19" rack gear the same way back whenever the first company (Fairchild or Pultec probably) came out with the first piece of 19" rack gear and no other gear (other than maybe computer or military) existed in that form? Because it was at one point a non universal physical size format, they (the original audio company who used 19" size for their pres, EQ, or comps) were the 'originals' so all other subsequent companies who came out with 19" rack gear were superfluous unless the original comany who used the 19" format was purchased originally by the end user.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by 84K

If anyone has an API rack that they are filling with gear, my advice is to make sure that you have a few of the real thing before you get nutty with all these new 500 series modules from all these other companies. API does API best.

i would not call A-Designs API other than the format.
i would not call Great River API other than the format.
i would not call Shadow Hills API other than the format.
i would not call Buzz API other than the format.

oh and did i say that socket that API chose for the 500 format is a standard.

i will be the first to say if you want API then get API.

we could go on and on but their is more to gear then just the name.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by max cooper

Any reason not to consider API's?

I think one could safely say that they've been used on a jillion recordings of drumsets.

I think it's up to 10 jillion served now. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000 for the API's.

[84K]

Originally Posted by pan60

i would not call A-Designs API other than the format.
i would not call Great River API other than the format.
i would not call Shadow Hills API other than the format.
i would not call Buzz API other than the format.

oh and did i say that socket that API chose for the 500 format is a standard.

i will be the first to say if you want API then get API.

we could go on and on but their is more to gear then just the name.

Whatever. The point is, I would represent API before any of the above mention companies. Then, experiment with them. It's been tried, and tested. API modules are great tools. The other may be too, but, firstly, I would go API.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by 84K

Whatever. The point is, I would represent API before any of the above mention companies. Then, experiment with them. It's been tried, and tested. API modules are great tools. The other may be too, but, firstly, I would go API.

not trying to argue at all, and i agree API is great stuff
just saying the others are not clones or copies of API other then the format.
and depending on your taste, the others are as good or better then API.

so i feel a statement like

The point is, I would represent API before any of the above mention companies. It's been tried, and tested.
API modules are great tools. The other may be too, but, firstly, I would go API.

would be no different then saying only buy Neve first or Quad Eight/MCI first or Universal Audio first, as they have been tried and tested.
i just do not get that argument:(

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by 84K

If anyone has an API rack that they are filling with gear, my advice is to make sure that you have a few of the real thing before you get nutty with all these new 500 series modules from all these other companies. API does API best.

or you could directly compare the API's to other modules you are interested in and make an educated decision that works best for you...

Originally Posted by 84K

Whatever.

nice

[84K]

Originally Posted by gm5k

or you could directly compare the API's to other modules you are interested in and make an educated decision that works best for you...





nice

Dude, I have used variuous products from most of the listed company's gear.

My point was, everyone is on this 500 series kicked. Don't forget, even though it's always been here, the API stuff is hard to mess with, and if you're going to have a rack, it should be represented. So, in short. Fu<k off. fuuck

[syra]

He wants to use them on overheads...I'm not a big fan of the APIs on overheads...Ok. Flame suit on. Lets go.

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by 84K

Dude, I have used variuous products from most of the listed company's gear.

My point was, everyone is on this 500 series kicked. Don't forget, even though it's always been here, the API stuff is hard to mess with, and if you're going to have a rack, it should be represented. So, in short. Fu<k off. fuuck

anger management issues? [IMG]******//www.spursreport.com/forums/images/smilies/drevil.gif[/IMG]

bah, i dont want to argue with you. its all love in lunchbox land [IMG]******//www.spursreport.com/forums/images/smilies/mike2.gif[/IMG]

[Tim Farrant]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

...Transient response is another matter of aesthetic. Tens of thousands of AMAZING sounding recordings have been made employing mics and pre's without the worlds greatest transient response "spec"... a "specification" is just a "specification"... it has NOTHING to do with the sound of anything....

With all due respect, I'll have to disagree with you on that one Fletcher. The slew rate spec (and any other spec for that matter) will certainly not fully describe how something is going to sound, but I can't agree it has nothing to do with how it will sound.

If you play a triangle (very demanding transients) thru a old 741 op amp (with a slew rate of 0.5V/us) at + 10dBu and compare it to triangle played thru a modern (20V/us) op amp, I am 100% confident you will hear the effects of the 741 slew rate limiting on the sound.

Tim

[e-cue]

I can hear the difference between the rise time settings on the ViPre.

[666666]

But I'm still with Fletcher. His point is that one should be purchasing / using gear based on its SOUND, not technical specs... the goal is to make MUSIC after all, this isn't a science fair.

I personally do not know anything about slew rates and rise times... and I don't want to know... but when I HEAR a unit that sounds good to me and that works well with the music at hand, that's the unit I wish to use... period.

So while many may be able to hear the difference between different slew rates, it really doesn't matter... what matters is how the thing ultimately SOUNDS in terms of its ability to appropriately retain, shape, enhance etc the music being worked on.

No disrespect to anyone here, but I have to stand behind Fletcher's excellent post... because he's on the money.

Originally Posted by Fletcher

...My advice to you would be to step away from the "audio forums" [where most people are either plugging products or rationalizing their latest purchase] and go listen to this stuff... NOTHING compares to direct experience...

Amen.