balanced power conditioners: bpt vs. equitech

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by t_d

in the market for a 15amp balanced power conditioner and have heard great things about the above two companies..

however... if you compare similar products.. the equi=tech Son Of Q and the BPT unit (Balanced Power Technologies - CPC - Clean Power Center)..... the Son of Q is about $1700 and the BPT is $500

why such a huge difference in price?

i want the right unit, not the cheapest unit, or the flashiest unit...

you often get what you pay for in this stuff, so i'm just wondering if there is really a quality difference between these two units?

thanks

Which ever one you buy, you are going to need an electrician who knows what they are doing and how to hook these up in a way that doesn't ruin their performance. We had a few issues in our build, and one of them was that the first balanced transformer we installed was the wrong one (didn't match the specs). The electrician ate the cost (although we payed *plenty* in other areas).

If your electrician has an opinion, listen to it. If they don't, chances are you need to find one who does.

[MichaelPatrick]

BPT should be fine. The most important thing is the transformer because that's how the power gets balanced. Filtering for digital devices, a high quality chassis, switches and extra outlets are all bonus features.

What's important is to have more than enough balanced power for all the gear in your signal chain. Equitech's 15 amp unit weighs 60 lbs for a reason; the transformer must be large enough to supply power instantly or else music dynamics are affected.

You don't want to run anything unnecessary off the unit as that'll just waste precious clean power. If you want to run monitor speakers, for example, get a balanced power unit with a larger transformer, especially if there's a big thumping subwoofer.

I recommend a balanced power unit that's got at least 2x the power your analog gear is rated for. That way it can satisfy transient current demands without choking.

[t_d]

thanks for the advice...

however, i thought these things were just plug and play... not sure why i'd need an electrician... as, from what i've read, you just plug the conditioner in the wall and then plug all of your gear into the conditioner..

where would an electrician come in?

also, because my studio is running off of one 15amp circuit on the house, i assume one 15amp conditioner is sufficient...

i could even take the monitors and sub (focal twin/sub) off of the conditioner if i needed to.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by t_d

thanks for the advice...

however, i thought these things were just plug and play... not sure why i'd need an electrician... as, from what i've read, you just plug the conditioner in the wall and then plug all of your gear into the conditioner..

where would an electrician come in?

also, because my studio is running off of one 15amp circuit on the house, i assume one 15amp conditioner is sufficient...

i could even take the monitors and sub (focal twin/sub) off of the conditioner if i needed to.

Sorry...I was thinking of the 200A jobbies.

[j200]

Unless I'm reading the specs wrong the BPT CPC (clean power center) does not provide balanced power. It lacks the isolation transformer of the Ultra product line, says so right in the second sentence of the product marketing blurb you linked to

That seems to explain the price difference. The Ultra product rated for 8.5A is 1k.

[GoldMember]

Originally Posted by t_d

why such a huge difference in price?

i want the right unit, not the cheapest unit, or the flashiest unit...

The bigger the transfomer = the better = the heavier.

BPT CPC - 10lbs. "It features the same construction and quality as our Ultra Power Isolators, minus of course, the balanced isolation transformer."
BPT BP-3.5 Signature PLUS - 65lbs.
BP-10.5 Ultra - 70lbs.
BP-1 Ultra - 50lbs.

Son Q 1R - 48lbs.
Son Q 1.5R - 60lbs.
Son Q 2R - 63lbs.

Q 1RQ - 58lbs.
Q 2RQ - 72lbs.
3RQ - 95lbs.
5RQ - 175lbs.
7.5RQ - 220lbs.
10RQ - 245lbs.

Furman P-2400 IT 90lbs.
Furman IT-20 II 80lbs.

there are also other variables... like copper quality, center tap precision, gfci outlets, aditional filters, THD, etc...

With and without power conditioner and Voltage Regulator
6moons audio reviews: BPT BP-2+
6moons audio reviews: BPT BP-3.5

BPT 3.5 ultra



Q


Furman P-2400 IT

[drBill]

Originally Posted by t_d

in the market for a 15amp balanced power conditioner and have heard great things about the above two companies..

Do you want balanced power or a power conditioner? Those are not necessarily the same thing.

[Thuneau]

I bought an electric surplus store isolation transformer rated at 5kVA that normally hangs on the wall and wired it for balanced power. It has the electrostatic shield and I measured the output to be balanced to within a tenth of a Volt. I paid more for shipping than for the trafo. It all came to under 100 dollars. It works every bit as good as the commercial products. When I had a studio with large format analog console it dropped the noise on the outputs by 6-10dB with all the gear plugged in it.
If you don't need that much juice, there is a dual transformer project with internal filtering posted on the web that costs few hundred dollars to make and it will power all your rack gear and your DAW. Projects update and iformation page

[t_d]

i didn't know the difference..

i want clean power, reduced noisefloor.. don't know if i believe the hype about "tightened bass" or "deeper sound"... audiophile voodoo if you ask me....

what i'm after is reduced noise and clean power coming out of the house circuit.

Originally Posted by drBill

Do you want balanced power or a power conditioner? Those are not necessarily the same thing.

[Davido]

Originally Posted by t_d

thanks for the advice...

however, i thought these things were just plug and play... not sure why i'd need an electrician... as, from what i've read, you just plug the conditioner in the wall and then plug all of your gear into the conditioner..

where would an electrician come in?

also, because my studio is running off of one 15amp circuit on the house, i assume one 15amp conditioner is sufficient...

i could even take the monitors and sub (focal twin/sub) off of the conditioner if i needed to.

When you say 15AMP circuit, what do you mean? Is it a fused spur circuit (using a 15AMP)? Or a ring circuit?

Do you know what equipment you will be using with the conditioner? Do you know the individual current draw of each unit?

[radeng]

Originally Posted by Thuneau

I bought an electric surplus store isolation transformer rated at 5kVA that normally hangs on the wall and wired it for balanced power. It has the electrostatic shield and I measured the output to be balanced to within a tenth of a Volt. I paid more for shipping than for the trafo. It all came to under 100 dollars. It works every bit as good as the commercial products. When I had a studio with large format analog console it dropped the noise on the outputs by 6-10dB with all the gear plugged in it.

I went this route as well. But I'm a licensed electrician. The plug n' play units from Equi=Tech and Furman are easy to use but expensive. As others have said, size the unit for twice your anticipated load, including powered monitors/sub in the control room and amps in the studio. Everything in the recording chain has to be on the balanced power or you defeat the purpose.

[t_d]

don't know those types of circuits.... all i do know is that my whole studio runs off of one 15amp breaker in our breaker panel

never added up all the amps, but considering my studio has been in this location for 6 years i'm sure it's fine on one 15 amp circuit

Originally Posted by Davido

When you say 15AMP circuit, what do you mean? Is it a fused spur circuit (using a 15AMP)? Or a ring circuit?

Do you know what equipment you will be using with the conditioner? Do you know the individual current draw of each unit?

[t_d]

it's good advice probably to look ahead and double your load possibility... but, considering this room is wired on one 15 amp circuit, i don't think that's really necessary for me... unless i get to the point where i have to bring in an electrician to put a 40amp circuit in the room. but i don't see that happening.

Originally Posted by radeng

I went this route as well. But I'm a licensed electrician. The plug n' play units from Equi=Tech and Furman are easy to use but expensive. As others have said, size the unit for twice your anticipated load, including powered monitors/sub in the control room and amps in the studio. Everything in the recording chain has to be on the balanced power or you defeat the purpose.

[radeng]

Originally Posted by t_d

i unless i get to the point where i have to bring in an electrician to put a 40amp circuit in the room. but i don't see that happening.

The Furman and some of the Equi-Techs only need a 20 amp circuit, which is plenty for the majority of control room/studio needs. If you are running everything off of a 15A circuit, the wire in the wall is most likely 14ga. Unless the electrical panel is only a couple of feet away, for serious audio use you really want a dedicated 20A circuit wired with 12ga conductors. It makes a difference.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by t_d

it's good advice probably to look ahead and double your load possibility... but, considering this room is wired on one 15 amp circuit, i don't think that's really necessary for me... unless i get to the point where i have to bring in an electrician to put a 40amp circuit in the room. but i don't see that happening.

I think the point is not your studio circuit capacity, rather that your plug-n-play balanced power unit should have over capacity to supply your studio gear. To figure it out here are the simple formulas:

Monitor speakers = 200 watts
Converters = 120 watts
DAW computer + display = 225 watts
Preamps = 200 watts

TOTAL Watts used = 745

Capacity needed in a balanced power unit:
745 watts * 2 = 1490 watts
1490 watts / 120volts = 12.42 Amps

This would mean your balanced power unit should be a 15 Amp device.
A 15 Amp balanced power unit should work fine plugged into your existing 15 Amp mains circuit.

[GoldMember]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

DAW computer + display = 225 watts

buy a Kill-a-Watt power strip...

a decent laptop is 225w
a MacPro has a 900w PSU
a decent PSu is 850w

CPU HDD Board and all that stuff eats 50% working.

a 55" Led TV is 200w
a 22" led monitor PSU is 1A at 120v, but outputs ~40w.


less than 1500w~1800w is wasting money.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by GoldMember

buy a Kill-a-Watt power strip...

a decent laptop is 225w
a MacPro has a 900w PSU
a decent PSu is 850w

CPU HDD Board and all that stuff eats 50% working.

a 55" Led TV is 200w
a 22" led monitor PSU is 1A at 120v, but outputs ~40w.


less than 1500w~1800w is wasting money.

I offered a formula and inserted example values to illustrate how it works. By inserting irrelevant values you've changed the subject.

[PDC]

Originally Posted by radeng

The Furman and some of the Equi-Techs only need a 20 amp circuit, which is plenty for the majority of control room/studio needs. If you are running everything off of a 15A circuit, the wire in the wall is most likely 14ga. Unless the electrical panel is only a couple of feet away, for serious audio use you really want a dedicated 20A circuit wired with 12ga conductors. It makes a difference.

I don't agree with this. For serious audio you need 20A? My idea of serious and yours are two different things. So, what we need to know is what is he drawing vs. what is he allowed to draw. If he is using a 15A circuit to power everything, he does not actually have a full 15A. He may not need a full 15A either. Going to a 20A circuit is not going to benefit him if he is not even flipping the breaker now.

What would benefit him isolating all of his audio on a leg/phase from anything electromechanical that may discharge current, contaminate the ground, etc, as well as ballast and/or certain dimmers. That will help with noise, clicks and pops, voltage swings, etc.

Balanced power is used all over manufacturing plants, mechanical shops, etc. If you find a good local electrician, you can get this done far cheaper than the plug in versions. You can also contact your local AC power company/coop and secure spike protection and filtering devices. In my market this can be done gratis.

If you can get by on a single 15A circuit, pure sine wave power is obtainable on a budget.

[GoldMember]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

By inserting irrelevant values you've changed the subject.

irrelevant ?

[GoldMember]

Originally Posted by PDC

this can be done gratis.

LOL

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by GoldMember

irrelevant ?

Irrelevant because the values you inserted don't relate to the OP's studio except in some theory about avg power consumption of some typical studio devices. The subject of this thread is power in the OP's studio. If you let him insert actual values into the formula I provided his thread will have a better chance of remaining relevant to the question.

[jitterybit]

Originally Posted by Thuneau

I bought an electric surplus store isolation transformer rated at 5kVA that normally hangs on the wall and wired it for balanced power. It has the electrostatic shield and I measured the output to be balanced to within a tenth of a Volt. I paid more for shipping than for the trafo. It all came to under 100 dollars. It works every bit as good as the commercial products. When I had a studio with large format analog console it dropped the noise on the outputs by 6-10dB with all the gear plugged in it.
If you don't need that much juice, there is a dual transformer project with internal filtering posted on the web that costs few hundred dollars to make and it will power all your rack gear and your DAW. Projects update and iformation page

Nice link. thanks

[t_d]

exactly.. i don't need 20amps... the studio runs on 15 now and has for years.

while i appreciate the technical back and forth (and no need to argue on my account people) i was really just wondering why these two units were so different in price.

when i look at the BPT site they list all sorts of "add ons" to their unit... which i'm wondering if half of them are actually necessary, thus bringing the BPT price up to the equi=tech.

anyone here use either of these two units?

Originally Posted by PDC

He may not need a full 15A either. Going to a 20A circuit is not going to benefit him if he is not even flipping the breaker now.

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by t_d

don't know those types of circuits.... all i do know is that my whole studio runs off of one 15amp breaker in our breaker panel

never added up all the amps, but considering my studio has been in this location for 6 years i'm sure it's fine on one 15 amp circuit

it takes a LOT of audio gear to add up to 15 amps..UNLESS you have a LARGE console, Large power amps, Tape machines.....
For example: a 32 by 8 Mackie draws around 1.5amps, power amps are easy, if it's a 100watt per channel, then double that for Peak draw..Or around 3.3 amps..Normally it would be around 1/4 that..
Most rack gear is VERY little, less than a 1/4 amp..
By the way I measured the above..

First; do you have a dedicated 15 amp circuit feeding your gear?And is it grounded properly?

2nd; know that Balanced power With a conditioner will NOT correct all AC conditions..

[nosebleedaudio]

If it was me I would want to know for SURE..JUST to REALLY know..
So I would put an Amprobe on ALL the gear via a modified extention cable, this is how I do it, don't need to pull the cover on the Breaker panel..

For another example; a 6 space API Lunch box Loaded is around 1/4 amp..The one I have loaded is less than half that..depending on the modules...
See what I mean..Not much..Large video Monitors..far more..around 1 amp with a computer..

[ClaudeD]

Originally Posted by t_d

anyone here use either of these two units?

I've used a BPT unit for years. It is plug-n-play. Made, IMHO, a noticeable difference. I also used a Tice Power Block III Signature; in my view, the BPT was a bigger improvement.

Owing to circumstances, I'm going to put both on Audiogon or eBay soon; email me if you are interested.

[Ross H]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

2nd; know that Balanced power With a conditioner will NOT correct all AC conditions..

This is a fact. I bought the Furman ISO transformer ($1700.00)...didnt fix my AC problems.

For what its worth I have a MacPro/LED monitor/Analogue Console/Three sets of monitors/one converter/two compressors/seven preamps/and a headphone amp on one 20A Furman unit. Maybe in theory a heavy load but never had any problems.

[Danny Stone]

How come there is not one mention or recommendation of Plitron (a near 30 year company that research, design, development and manufacturing of toroidal transformers and toroidal based products) and its Torus Power line. There is a lot of good and useful information. I have personally seen and have listened to their avr system and is astounding. I have also read reviews of the RM20 vs the Equi=tech 1.5 Q model. Good read and informative (https://www.toruspower.com/testimoni...rm20-balanced/)

Plitron is known for its quality products and has received many awards for their work. Torus Power was selected to be a part of the "World's Best Audio System" crowned by Soundstage at soundstageglobal.com (Here's a video from them TWBAS 2012 Introduction from Las Vegas)
If you wanna check them out (to see what their about) you can by going to Plitron, or their Torus line Torus Power

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by Danny Stone

How come there is not one mention or recommendation of Plitron .....

Or Surgex or....There are quite a few companies that make acceptable solutions. Even Monster has some, if you got the bucks. But the OP has made his choices.

I've been using a Furman AR-117 forever. Always liked the Equi=Tech, but never stepped up to the plate for the cost. The studio had a big transformer, I didn't install it so I don't know what it was, it was just a big old honker installed at the service box. The problem with just putting in a transformer is that you don't get all that extra filtering that Equi=Tech and some of these other manufacturers put into their units.