Does it have to be high end to get that sparkle?

GrantsV · 25th April 2006, 08:52 AM

I was wondering if you could advise me? I am running an impulse model of a expensive preamp on 14khz +5 boost on my guitar tracks. Then I have to boost again in the high range, and cut the mud around 220-300hz. The sound generally gets harsh at this point, but only then approaches the sparkle you hear on a pro recording or even sound modules. The sound of my amp in the room is amazing (great tube amp with the best celestion speakers).

Im using a SM57 with an Audiobuddy. The uneq'd sound is like I have limited bandwidth which needs lots of eq.

I was wondering if you could recommend a device that can give me even harmonics/enhancement to help sparkle up and unmuddy my tracks. I am quite sure its not an EQ thing. Its harmonics. You know, like the sound you get if you use a solidstate poweramp with heavy damping. I am guessing this sparkle is what the £1000+ mic preamps do naturally?

So, my question to all you high end guys - if you couldn't use your £1K+ preamps, what would you do?

I have modified Boss pedals etc so if there was a device that could be 'tweaked' I am interested also.

Look forward to your reply.

GrantsV · 25th April 2006, 09:16 AM

It would probably help if you heard a sample of my recording.
Please see www.advantageinstruments.com, click 'pickups', then click on the AP1 Alnico PowerPro Humbucker to hear my recording effort!

Please critique away! You expert advice is why I chose gearslutz to post this message.

Best regards,
GrantsV

Bat Head Sound · 25th April 2006, 05:13 PM

try moving the mic.....

valverec · 25th April 2006, 06:29 PM

I would also try adjusting the guitar amp if possible.

allencollins · 25th April 2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bat Head Sound

try moving the mic.....

yeah I think that's how they fixed the sound in the glory days.

It's funny we all try to 'fix' it with eq when we should just move the mic or use a different gtr/amp

Bat Head Sound · 25th April 2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allencollins

yeah I think that's how they fixed the sound in the glory days.

It's funny we all try to 'fix' it with eq when we should just move the mic or use a different gtr/amp

Exactly....

tedcrop · 25th April 2006, 08:54 PM

Dude I was going to buy a pickup until I clicked on it.

Kestral · 25th April 2006, 08:55 PM

To me, the "secret" of that nice sheen for guitars is a real hardware 1176. I guess you can try a 1176 plugin but I think the hardware adds something special. That and the high end on the Neve 1073's EQ.

Zwinter · 25th April 2006, 09:47 PM

Definitely play around with the mic placement. Also, listen with your ears to what the mic is hearing. This means that your ear has to be where the mic is going to be. If your ear tells you it sounds bad, then move your body and ear until it sounds good.

u b k · 26th April 2006, 04:45 AM

i'm wondering what kind of 'sparkle' you're after. if it's the modern radio wall-o'-rectifiers, it's tough to get that without eq unless you're in a fabulous 31x38x27' stone room, and even then it's iffy.

the other thing i'm wondering is if, when you say the guitars sound 'harsh at this point,' is that in the context of the mix or are you solo'ing them and making this analysis? don't solo them, it doesn't matter what that sounds like. context is everything.

my guess is you have too much low-mids because you're recording in a small untreated room. get the amp off the floor, up on a milk crate, and away from any walls. turn the volume as low as you can and still get the tone. use mic placement and your amp's eq to get the sound you need to have *in the mix*. you know, the thin harsh sound you get after eq'ing? get something like that at the source, it'll sit in the mix but it won't sound harsh from all the post-processing.

good luck!

gregoire
del ubik

GrantsV · 26th April 2006, 08:25 AM

Thank you all for your replies.

For clarification. The recordings I am discussing are demo samples of the companies equipment in isolation, just a single mono guitar track with eq + reverb.

We have some other recordings. Now these were done on totally different outboard equipment in another location, by another guy(!) (but still SM57 if that matters). Can you please advise what your expert ears think of the quality?

www.advantageinstruments.com > pedals > (click the pedals for the .mp3)

Thanks again, look forward to your response.
GrantsV

Curve Dominant · 26th April 2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Does it have to be high end to get that sparkle?

The talent in front of the recording gear has to be high-end, in order to get "that sparkle."

The various gear will only represent that "sparkle" in differing degrees.

These days, it's hard to find gear that will effectively smother "sparkling" talent. The components are simply not that badly manufactured on a wide basis.

On the other hand, pricey gear, no matter how expertly manipulated, will not make poor talent "sparkle."

Perhaps your question should be framed by the musical talent you've been tasked to record. That is the purpose of our craft, after all.

max cooper · 26th April 2006, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u b i k

get the amp off the floor, up on a milk crate, and away from any walls. turn the volume as low as you can and still get the tone.

Boom, boom!

tedcrop · 26th April 2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwinter

Definitely play around with the mic placement. Also, listen with your ears to what the mic is hearing. This means that your ear has to be where the mic is going to be. If your ear tells you it sounds bad, then move your body and ear until it sounds good.

Do you mean put my ear in front of the speaker on the guitar cabinet? Don't think I'll be doin that.

But you could try using a Royer 121 about six inches in front of any speaker. It makes it a little easier to deal with MIC placement and also picks some of the room up on the back side.

That ribbon with a kickass MIC Pre......Chandler, 1073, Great River. Will certainly help get more of a pro sound. New strings and a well setup guitar certainly help as well.

treymonfauntre · 27th April 2006, 02:04 AM

this guys running an audiobuddy and a preamp modeler, theres no chance for it to sound good

GrantsV · 27th April 2006, 09:06 AM

Sorry guys, I think you miss understand me. I am not using a modeller!!!

It is a Peavey Classic 120 (flagship of the Classic range) tube amp (new valves and celestion speakers) mic'd with SM57. The sound in the room couldn't be better. The Audio Buddy is the only weak link.

I think the suggestions given by u b i k are valid. My amp was on the floor and this must be why I got a terrible muddy bass which needed drastic eq. Also the room is untreated and the cab was close to a corner causing phase issues. No wonder I needed all that EQ. The volume I was recording at was pretty high so the resonance and phasing was probably causing all sorts of problems.

Thanks again guys, I'll get a milk crate!
GrantsV

Greg Wells · 27th April 2006, 09:21 AM

GrantsV - the Royer 121 is your friend. Guitar sparkle, guitar everything. Best guitar sounds I've ever got. Mic placement is obviously very important, but that Royer is a magic mic, worth every penny. Good luck.

lclyman · 27th April 2006, 11:31 AM

Here's a little secret weapon that kills on electric guitars:

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...7e9/index.html

They say it's for kick drum (where it certainly excels) but it's the best thing I've put in front of my guitar amps...

Dual element dynamic and cardiod capsules perfectly in phase...mix and match to taste...

Cheap too...!

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25th April 2006, 08:52 AM	#1
GrantsV Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 21	Does it have to be high end to get that sparkle? I was wondering if you could advise me? I am running an impulse model of a expensive preamp on 14khz +5 boost on my guitar tracks. Then I have to boost again in the high range, and cut the mud around 220-300hz. The sound generally gets harsh at this point, but only then approaches the sparkle you hear on a pro recording or even sound modules. The sound of my amp in the room is amazing (great tube amp with the best celestion speakers). Im using a SM57 with an Audiobuddy. The uneq'd sound is like I have limited bandwidth which needs lots of eq. I was wondering if you could recommend a device that can give me even harmonics/enhancement to help sparkle up and unmuddy my tracks. I am quite sure its not an EQ thing. Its harmonics. You know, like the sound you get if you use a solidstate poweramp with heavy damping. I am guessing this sparkle is what the £1000+ mic preamps do naturally? So, my question to all you high end guys - if you couldn't use your £1K+ preamps, what would you do? I have modified Boss pedals etc so if there was a device that could be 'tweaked' I am interested also. Look forward to your reply.

25th April 2006, 09:47 PM	#9
Zwinter Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 632	Definitely play around with the mic placement. Also, listen with your ears to what the mic is hearing. This means that your ear has to be where the mic is going to be. If your ear tells you it sounds bad, then move your body and ear until it sounds good. __________________ Zach Winterfeld Chariots of Fire, "you can't put in what God's left out" "It is slightly illegal, but who the f@*k cares at this point."

27th April 2006, 09:21 AM	#17
Greg Wells Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 460	GrantsV - the Royer 121 is your friend. Guitar sparkle, guitar everything. Best guitar sounds I've ever got. Mic placement is obviously very important, but that Royer is a magic mic, worth every penny. Good luck. __________________ www.gregwells.net

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25th April 2006, 09:16 AM	#2
GrantsV Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 21	It would probably help if you heard a sample of my recording. Please see www.advantageinstruments.com, click 'pickups', then click on the AP1 Alnico PowerPro Humbucker to hear my recording effort! Please critique away! You expert advice is why I chose gearslutz to post this message. Best regards, GrantsV

25th April 2006, 05:13 PM	#3
Bat Head Sound Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 572	try moving the mic.....

25th April 2006, 06:29 PM	#4
valverec Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: USA Posts: 206	I would also try adjusting the guitar amp if possible.

25th April 2006, 08:54 PM	#7
tedcrop Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 306	Dude I was going to buy a pickup until I clicked on it.

25th April 2006, 08:55 PM	#8
Kestral Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada Posts: 1,516	To me, the "secret" of that nice sheen for guitars is a real hardware 1176. I guess you can try a 1176 plugin but I think the hardware adds something special. That and the high end on the Neve 1073's EQ.

26th April 2006, 04:45 AM	#10
u b k Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: m a n h a t t a n Posts: 5,575	i'm wondering what kind of 'sparkle' you're after. if it's the modern radio wall-o'-rectifiers, it's tough to get that without eq unless you're in a fabulous 31x38x27' stone room, and even then it's iffy. the other thing i'm wondering is if, when you say the guitars sound 'harsh at this point,' is that in the context of the mix or are you solo'ing them and making this analysis? don't solo them, it doesn't matter what that sounds like. context is everything. my guess is you have too much low-mids because you're recording in a small untreated room. get the amp off the floor, up on a milk crate, and away from any walls. turn the volume as low as you can and still get the tone. use mic placement and your amp's eq to get the sound you need to have in the mix. you know, the thin harsh sound you get after eq'ing? get something like that at the source, it'll sit in the mix but it won't sound harsh from all the post-processing. good luck! gregoire del ubik

26th April 2006, 08:25 AM	#11
GrantsV Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 21	Thank you all for your replies. For clarification. The recordings I am discussing are demo samples of the companies equipment in isolation, just a single mono guitar track with eq + reverb. We have some other recordings. Now these were done on totally different outboard equipment in another location, by another guy(!) (but still SM57 if that matters). Can you please advise what your expert ears think of the quality? www.advantageinstruments.com > pedals > (click the pedals for the .mp3) Thanks again, look forward to your response. GrantsV

27th April 2006, 02:04 AM	#15
treymonfauntre Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 567	this guys running an audiobuddy and a preamp modeler, theres no chance for it to sound good

27th April 2006, 09:06 AM	#16
GrantsV Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 21	Sorry guys, I think you miss understand me. I am not using a modeller!!! It is a Peavey Classic 120 (flagship of the Classic range) tube amp (new valves and celestion speakers) mic'd with SM57. The sound in the room couldn't be better. The Audio Buddy is the only weak link. I think the suggestions given by u b i k are valid. My amp was on the floor and this must be why I got a terrible muddy bass which needed drastic eq. Also the room is untreated and the cab was close to a corner causing phase issues. No wonder I needed all that EQ. The volume I was recording at was pretty high so the resonance and phasing was probably causing all sorts of problems. Thanks again guys, I'll get a milk crate! GrantsV

27th April 2006, 11:31 AM	#18
lclyman Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 132	Here's a little secret weapon that kills on electric guitars: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...7e9/index.html They say it's for kick drum (where it certainly excels) but it's the best thing I've put in front of my guitar amps... Dual element dynamic and cardiod capsules perfectly in phase...mix and match to taste... Cheap too...!