getting guitar signals into ISO booth

[Robert O]

Hi everyone

I'm looking at how we can get guitar/ instrument signals into two ISO booths on the floor above our control room. We obvioulsy want to be able to put amps in the ISO booths have people playing in the control room and/or live room.

We already have sufficient balanced lines going in there and some DI boxes available (groove tubes) but no instrument cabling plumbed in yet. Running new guitar leads might be possible but the run could be quite long (25m+) and a pain in the bum to install.

I've been thinking of buying reamp boxes as a simple and flexible fix which avoids new cable runs. The guitar would plug into a DI box in the live/control room which would be routed through the patchbay into the booth then through the reamp box into the amplifier and mic'ed back to the desk.

Is this a good option? Is there a better way?

The reamp boxes I'm thinking of are
1) Reamp
2) Radial X-amp
3) Little Labs Red Eye
4) Alan Smart Guitar DI Deluxe system

The Alan Smart system seems a good option because it lloks like you can run multiple signals through it and they claim less 'tone-suck' but the others are a bit cheaper and more people seem to be using them.

Any views on the diference between these and what would be the best choice?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Robert

[zkaudio]

can't you just plug a trs 1/4 into the guitar? and plug teh other end inside the booth into the amp? it will only use 2 of the contacts... or am I missing something.

[Robert O]

Originally Posted by zkaudio

can't you just plug a trs 1/4 into the guitar? and plug teh other end inside the booth into the amp? it will only use 2 of the contacts... or am I missing something.

Maybe I'm missing something (like sufficent knowledge about cabling!). Please excuse my ignorance as I'm not (yet) a techie and I'm trying to wrap my head around some of our cabling issues to help our engineer set everything up in our new studio.

I thought there might be a problem with using the existing balanced line cabling to carry an unbalanced guitar signal. If we only use one of the two cores for the signal (or connect the XLR pins two and three together) does the cable function as well as a a single core instrument cable? If there isn't a problem with this, then I guess we could use an XLR to 1/4 standard guitar jack adaptor cable at both ends to effectively make a long unbalanced guitar cable connecting the rooms. If we used XLR to 1/4 TRS is this any different?

I assume the DI/reamp boxes would therefore be unnecessary as we would not be converting from unbalanced to balanced and back again.

I also thought we might get a problem with signal loss if the cable run is too long and that the Alan Smart system might solve this.

The other reason to use DI/reamp boxes might be to enable us to reamp the guitar tracks from the desk. I assume we would then need to convert the balanced line level signal to unbalanced guitar level in the booth. Is this right?

[Kiwiburger]

your not missing anything. You simply can't plug a TRS cable into an instrument that has a TS jack. Guitars are Hi-z, and you can't run long cables without suffering loss. You are on the right track with DI boxes, to convert to balanced low-z for the long run. Then convert it back, with a reamp box.

You could use a simple transformer at each end - something like a couple of JDI passive boxes, and just use it back to front at the amp end. A reamp box is essentially just that, with a level control. I doubt you would need a level control if using passive boxes.

The impedance presented to the guitar makes a big difference in tone. For variation, and to suit a wide range of guitars, you might want a choice of several DI boxes with differing impedances. Maybe even a GT Brick, with a 3 megohm input and some tubey goodness.

[Robert O]

[quote=Kiwiburger]your not missing anything.

Thanks, it's nice to know I'm not completely ignorant!

If the existing cable run is short enough would the XLR/1/4 Jack adaptors work as a quick fix until we sort out the DI/reamp system or is there a fundamental reason why you can't use the two core cable as a temporary guitar cable if you re-wire the plugs?

[monobeat]

well i for one am not a techie and have come up with the following solution at my studio which works very well. i installed a 15 meter speaker cable from the control room to the iso booth. so i have the cabs in the booth and the amps and musician in the control room. i sure haven't noticed any sound drawbacks.

best, warner

[Kiwiburger]

Yeah, having the heads in the control booth is a great option. May as well run some speaker cable when you can.

In the meantime, you can certainly try using the existing balanced cable with adapters. Just expect a little high end rolloff - it might even be musically useful. Sort of like setting the tone control a little. And hopefully not too much noise or RFI.

[Robert O]

Originally Posted by monobeat

well i for one am not a techie and have come up with the following solution at my studio which works very well. i installed a 15 meter speaker cable from the control room to the iso booth. so i have the cabs in the booth and the amps and musician in the control room. i sure haven't noticed any sound drawbacks.

best, warner

That's a good idea I think

I was thinking of running some speaker cable through as well as I guess the run length is less critical if the cable is high quality. However, our in-house amps are all combos so we'd also have to have a spare cab. Using a different cab would probably also change the sound quite a bit. For example, our 70's Fender Vibro-Champ tiny speaker is a big factor in the sound.

So, it looks like we probably need both routes

[Kiwiburger]

Mixing and matching heads and cabs is way too much fun. You should fit some extension speaker jacks on your combo amps.

[Jules]

I can lend you my Al Smart system to try out next week give me a call...

[Robert O]

Anyone got views on the four reamp box options?

[Robert O]

Originally Posted by Jules

I can lend you my Al Smart system to try out next week give me a call...

What a nice man.......

I'll call you tomorrow if that's OK.

Thanks a lot Jules


Robert

[Ivo]

Originally Posted by Robert O

Anyone got views on the four reamp box options?

Maybe one to add to the list:

The Millenia TD-1 has very nice reamp options - it can emulate the electronic behaviour of either a Strat or a Les Paul IIRC, so the amp actually 'thinks' and interacts as if it were connected directly to a guitar. I have had a TD-1 for a short period of time (upgraded to STT-1 pretty quick) so I have not worked a lot with the reamp options, but I remember they were quite neat. Maybe more experienced TD-1 users could chime in...

I suppose you could do the trick with two TD-1's (never done it myself) : one for instrument input (and recording the direct guitar sound) and another one in the ISO booth for reamping. Or use another DI-box and just use the TD-1 for reamping. Or use a TD-1 for instrument input, track, and then use it for reamping later.

It also does other cool stuff - HV-3 preamp, very good instrument input with switchabel tube, nice EQ.

I'm not sure how it compares to the boxes in your list, pricewise.

hth,

Ivo W.