pro tools - wait or upgrade?!

[PhilE]

WAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!

I run a mix3 system on a g4 450 in my mix room. PT 5.1 OS9.1 it is stable and does all I need it to.

When I have been tracking recently at a couple of studios who have upgraded the systems have been rotten. I regularly use HD3 6.7 and it is OKish but not as stable as my mix system.
PT 7.1 on an HD3 dual G5 was the biggest nightmare I've ever experienced.
Stick with what you have, it's a GOOD system. If you really think that your system is a pain in the ass try a whole new system not an upgrade.

[ajcamlet]

Its just my humble observation, but *generally* speaking it seems as times goes on, it's getting to be more work to get a stable system with Digi. i'm having a bit of a nightmare right now with 7.1 on a G4

[Bob Olhsson]

The possibility of an application this complex being adequately tested and fixed is just about zip. I'd at least wait for a bug-fix version unless I had a second stable system as backup.

[whitepapagold]

If it ain't broke- dont fix it. If you do change, there will unquestionably be a moment or two where you say to yourself, " why the f*ck did I do this....." Sadly, clients always want the new stuff. If you dont have clients complaining or aren't losing cash-DONT DO IT! That is the nice thing about all in one recorders like the old vs1880 I had. Wasn't protools I know but NEVER CRASHED ONCE. NEVER. I miss the confidence-we toured with it playing back up vocals and such and NEVER A PROBLEM. Damn inevitable compatibility issues....... gotta love it! Sadly a vs1880 wont cut it in the studio!

[PhilE]

Its so true with Digi- although I've not had a problem from clients wanting HD.

[ajcamlet]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

The possibility of an application this complex being adequately tested and fixed is just about zip. I'd at least wait for a bug-fix version unless I had a second stable system as backup.

While i find this sadly true for audio, i can say that in other mediums such as graphic arts or scientific applications- there are less instances of the entire end user base functioning as beta testers.

[PhilE]

I take some issue with the idea of PT 7 being all that complex- it doesnt do the simple tasks it used to do all that well.
Call me old fasioned but I still think OSX is flaky.

[huarez]

In my experience, when I`m regarding the upgrade Programs from Digi the last ten years, there is no reason for Panic. It always was a better deal to wait a little, even now where digi have to put out a new system or dramatically lower the prices. On the other side , i run a HD3 with 24/44.1 on a 933 G4 and get almost never at the limit.

[Count Dz]

I too am having qualms about upgrading my ol' 882 TDM system but have you seen what happens to your trade in value after May 22? That's if you trade it in, of course you can sell it on Ebay. I have to make this decision fairly quickly or I'm gonna lose like $2500 on trade .

[Andi Rauscher]

There won´t be any new converters. Nothing will change in the next 12 month.
And there will be no PT 8 release just because of the new Macs.
If you can work with your system, stick with it.
If you can´t, upgrade.
Get what you need toady, and don´t wait for anything to happen in the future!

[mjlaudio]

We Upgraded recently. We were locked in to a 400mhz g4 and with the favorable exchange rate ending soon, extra plugin packages I figured the value was better than selling the mix plus rig on ebay later.

I do alot of editting so the speed increase is awesome. I havent really had many issues with PT7 except that there is a learning curve going from 5.1.

I immediately noticed it was easier to get good sounds quicker and it has increased my productivity. But Ill tell you none of the bands were impressed when I told them we had HD they never cared.

I am hoping any new macs will have pci-e.



Live for today i guess

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by PhilE

WAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!

I run a mix3 system on a g4 450 in my mix room. PT 5.1 OS9.1 it is stable and does all I need it to.

When I have been tracking recently at a couple of studios who have upgraded the systems have been rotten. I regularly use HD3 6.7 and it is OKish but not as stable as my mix system.
PT 7.1 on an HD3 dual G5 was the biggest nightmare I've ever experienced.
Stick with what you have, it's a GOOD system. If you really th be jdrt

I am running a simular setup with 888's and an ad 8000 and it is rock solid, I agree totally, I wont be doing the HD thing. I am considering buying a dual G5 with an aroura and logic just for programming and sync it to my mix3 as I dont have any quality or stability issues. Every HD system I have used has had issues soooooo?????


Hang in there man, changing for the sake of it is one thing but if it is effecting your work then consider your options as there are alot of them now that native audio is a reality. Sometimes I think we all feel Digi is the G Pimp Audio pusherman and we are all just thier code cracked Protoolstue bitches. The same things always rings true though, your computer can never be too fast as you can never have too much money in the bank or have a girlfriend that is too sexy.

[catfish11]

its about the plugs that run on an hd accl system

[Sharp11]

Gee, I'm running 7 on Tiger with no issues at all, and as someone posted, the Accel plugs are fabulous (the Access Virus TDM synth makes it worthwhile alone).

Ed

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by PhilE

WAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!

I run a mix3 system on a g4 450 in my mix room. PT 5.1 OS9.1 it is stable and does all I need it to.

When I have been tracking recently at a couple of studios who have upgraded the systems have been rotten. I regularly use HD3 6.7 and it is OKish but not as stable as my mix system.
PT 7.1 on an HD3 dual G5 was the biggest nightmare I've ever experienced.
Stick with what you have, it's a GOOD system. If you really think that your system is a pain in the ass try a whole new system not an upgrade.

A-Fuken-Men!!

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by ajcamlet

While i find this sadly true for audio, i can say that in other mediums such as graphic arts or scientific applications- there are less instances of the entire end user base functioning as beta testers.

Double A-Fuken-Men. And one more Ahmen because yer from Hoboken. I have never been so drunk as when we played a gig in Hoboken.

One of your rat bastard Hobokeners kept pouring me these freezing cold mint tasting Vodka things while I was playing.

Woke up next morning in a strange car, owner of car MIA, my shoes were gone. Next day club owner came in with that rubber bag thing on her head filled with ice.

She "THINKS" she loved us but said we should turn it down to the level of a pin drop.

Eh....ACDC band. Best days of my life!

Thanks for that dude!

[Lynn Fuston]

I think I've waited as long as I can. I still have as much DSP as I always had, but everything's being rewritten to take up more DSP, so the same amount as always nets you less capability. That's the only thing that's killing me. I don't use Digi's converters, clock, don't record into it, so the hardware is insignificant to me. But the plugins, and how hungry they are now, are going to drive me to upgrade. Sooner than later.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by Ricky

I am running a simular setup with 888's and an ad 8000 and it is rock solid, I agree totally, I wont be doing the HD thing. I am considering buying a dual G5 with an aroura and logic just for programming and sync it to my mix3 as I dont have any quality or stability issues. Every HD system I have used has had issues soooooo?????


Hang in there man, changing for the sake of it is one thing but if it is effecting your work then consider your options as there are alot of them now that native audio is a reality. Sometimes I think we all feel Digi is the G Pimp Audio pusherman and we are all just thier code cracked Protoolstue bitches. The same things always rings true though, your computer can never be too fast as you can never have too much money in the bank or have a girlfriend that is too sexy.

And another Oy-Fuken-Men to you too mate!!

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by ajcamlet

While i find this sadly true for audio, i can say that in other mediums such as graphic arts or scientific applications- there are less instances of the entire end user base functioning as beta testers.

I seriously doubt that they are as complex or have as widely variable hardware and software compatibility issues.

Audio is one of very few applications where real-time performance is expected from garden variety personal computers. It's also a tiny market niche with relatively inexpensive software.

[NoisyNarrowBand]

guys,
thx for your replies. decision made: gonna stick with my setup for a while.

the factors pushing me to upgrade where mentioned here already:

1. plug-ins: just think waves ssl!

2. clients: I do mostly hardcore/metal stuff, some hip hop at times. clients increasingly ask about hd - especially labels came up with this question when booking!

3. sound quality. I got the feeling that the 888s are my weak spot. could change them for apogees, but after reading all about the latency issues here in gearslutz I am reluctant to go down that path.

4. my computer - pt is actually running fine - but logic and reason are just so darn slow. maybe I will need to cram a sepereate one for these tasks in my room

[Jules]

In the meantime I would treat your system to a external word clock device. this can lift up the quality of the conversion a great deal - and will always be usefull -whatever system to end up getting in a few years time....

[NoisyNarrowBand]

jules,
thx for the suggestion. looking into that option just now. do you recon that a clock like a big ben would be a substantial upgrade soundwise?!

the 888s seem to have a pretty bad rap here on gs and I wonder if they are worth to be treated with a big ben. I know its stupid to quantify: but would a big ben be a 5% or more like a 30% upgrade...

and will a big ben still make a difference on a hd system or whatever I might have next year?

thx again

[Tim Abraham]

Originally Posted by NoisyNarrowBand

jules,
thx for the suggestion. looking into that option just now. do you recon that a clock like a big ben would be a substantial upgrade soundwise?!

the 888s seem to have a pretty bad rap here on gs and I wonder if they are worth to be treated with a big ben. I know its stupid to quantify: but would a big ben be a 5% or more like a 30% upgrade...

and will a big ben still make a difference on a hd system or whatever I might have next year?

thx again

I've got a Mix rig and I too am considering whether or not to upgrade before trade in value drops.

Regarding the Big Ben--I say get yourself a Rosetta 800. You'll immediately hear a huge improvement. I use an Apogee Rosetta AD and a 200 and both are very significant improvements over the 888--much more than you'll get with just a new clock. And if you get the Rosetta 800 you'll be able to use it when you do upgrade to HD and skip the 192.

Regarding new Digi hardware--while I haven't seen many posts either here on or the DUC speculating about new Digi hardware, I do have to wonder based on 3 things.

First, I'm sure Digi could use a new product to sell--there must be dwindling sales of HD these days as many studios have upgraded already. This, in addition to the fact that the DSP on Accell cards, while impressive, looks alot less so if someone has a quad G5 and, say, the new SSL dsp box, a couple APA's, or Logic with another couple node machines.

Second, they are dropping the trade in value of the Mix systems--perhaps to pave the way for HD trade-ins to a new system?

Third, the ridiculously high cross-grade price from HD PCI-X to HD PCI-E. It makes me think that Digi has done this to intentionally to discourage crossgrades because they are coming out with new hardware soon. Perhaps they are trading some bad PR now to avoid the terrible PR they would have had if a bunch of people spent money cross-grading to PCI-E just a few months before new hardware dropped.

I'm not trying to incite speculation or rumour mongering here--these are serious questions for me as I decide whether to drop 10k on an upgrade to HD. I'd hate for my shiny new HD rig to be second best in just a few months.

Input anyone?

[thenoiseflower]

Not my system, I work on it tho', and it hasent been updated in moths and is rock solid, and quick as anything else, no problems here, buuut.... no updates either

Me thinks the whole "improved midi" was best left untouched.

[PhilE]

I have a USD on my rig.

[zboy2854]

Personally, I'd go ahead and upgrade now, before Digi jacks their prices, which I have to say makes no sense whatsoever to me. They're going the wrong way!! How in the world do they justify upping the exchange cost $2000 to go from a Mix Core card, which continues to drop in price to an HD1 system?

Everybody knows that Digi hardware are depreciating assets, yet Digi thinks it makes sense to actually raise the costs of hardware that has been out for years now.

Man, if Nuendo only added playlists and a tab to transient equivalent function, I swear I'd switch.

[dustpan]

Regarding the Big Ben--I say get yourself a Rosetta 800. You'll immediately hear a huge improvement. I use an Apogee Rosetta AD and a 200 and both are very significant improvements over the 888--much more than you'll get with just a new clock. And if you get the Rosetta 800 you'll be able to use it when you do upgrade to HD and skip the 192.

Regarding new Digi hardware--while I haven't seen many posts either here on or the DUC speculating about new Digi hardware, I do have to wonder based on 3 things.

First, I'm sure Digi could use a new product to sell--there must be dwindling sales of HD these days as many studios have upgraded already. This, in addition to the fact that the DSP on Accell cards, while impressive, looks alot less so if someone has a quad G5 and, say, the new SSL dsp box, a couple APA's, or Logic with another couple node machines.

Second, they are dropping the trade in value of the Mix systems--perhaps to pave the way for HD trade-ins to a new system?

Third, the ridiculously high cross-grade price from HD PCI-X to HD PCI-E. It makes me think that Digi has done this to intentionally to discourage crossgrades because they are coming out with new hardware soon. Perhaps they are trading some bad PR now to avoid the terrible PR they would have had if a bunch of people spent money cross-grading to PCI-E just a few months before new hardware dropped.

i think the converter investment makes good sense. i have HD3 and have found that my Lavry Blue A/D-D/A is superior to the 192's converters. the weak point of the Mix system was always its 888 conversion, which is vastly inferior to the 192. good converters, and clock, can absolutely extend the life of mix systems.

i doubt that the high cost of PCI exchange is designed to head off potential buyers...more likely it's digi's math on markup and a complete lack of marketing sense (few policies of theirs have generated such emnity!).

the overall comments here about digi software ring very true to me...the company's focus is clearly new product development, leapfrogging the competition (even though they have sadly lagged on midi feature set and rtas). in my experience protools 7 is nowhere near as stabile as mix/6, owing to digi's rush to keep up and their willingness to let the market prove out software releases.

after struggling along with PT midi for WAY too long (mainly because i invested in their control surfaces) i am now back to using DP5 for midi and mixing in PT as needed etc. much better!!

[dustpan]

sorry for the bad use of Quote feature in that post!

[NoisyNarrowBand]

tim,
u basically spelled out my gut-feeling about the state in pro-tools land. the market seems saturated with hd-equipment and judging from gs-posts one can see that a lot of 'smaller' companies made inroads into the converter market with their products.

I am sure digi is watching this closely!

there is also another factor. I know that hd-dvd and blu-ray will come with some sort of new audio-codecs for (high-res) audio. I have no idea about the specs and if this can be accomplished purley in software but I am pretty sure that these will be incorporated into pt sooner or later.

(high-res audio doesn't matter to me and I doubt it will ever matter in consumer-land. but still companies will use it as a reason to change their products...)

for me it becomes more and more clear that uppgrading now is just not an option. we are looking at a 20k investment here! ppc-macs will be obsolete in less than 4 months. and it seems that the intel-macs will offer a real substantial performance boost - even over the quad g5.

my mix rig is rock solid - no stability problems in months! I am working on thight recording-budgets, so upgrading and finding myself facing a flaky hd-system is not an option.

and nobody knows with what digi comes up - say at winter namm.

what I need now is something which provides enough wow factor to silence the "your 888s are soooooooo nineties dude!" folks without costing me a ton of money and compromising system stability while providing some sort of sonic advantage.

if I find something like that I can comfortably stick with my system for another 12 months!

regarding a converter upgrade: theres a ton of options here: lavry, apogee, mytek and whatnot. judging from the gs discussions all of these provide substantial sonic advantages.

but at least the apogees seem to bring latency hassles in pt with em - don't know bout the others - again: can't afford to deal with something like that in my studio. if I shell out 2-3k stuff has to work period! it's as simple as that

I am still uncertain if and how much a big ben (1200 euros roughly) would improve my 888 system. I'd appreciate any comments on this.

thx for your great help guys!