mono/stereo to 5.1?

audiothings · 19th April 2006

There appears to be a market (in my country) for putting old movies on dvd... am doing some research on what is being done to enhance (in terms of mix) the old mono and (dolby) stereo tracks to 5.1...

How do they do this with old english movies? A company called 'chace productions' has converted over 1000 titles from mono to surround, through some proprietory technology, but there is little info on the actual workings...

info, links and opinions much appreciated.

jai shankar.

Dunebuggy · 19th April 2006

TC 6000 electronics with Unwrap algorithm
Or with Protools with Waves (dunno the name of the plugin)

ResonantFilter · 19th April 2006

Another vote for Unwrap - but do not expect anything close to a miracle if:

1 - the source is mono (not a chance of any convincing other than the same thing out of 5 speakers)

2 - you HAVE to spend a pile of time experimenting

I did a number of trials of stereo to 5.1 in studio and live sound applications. You need some idea of how things react to the listening environment to get it right

On the other hand, results can be pretty convincing with the right source material.

As we all know, polishing turds just makes a shiny turd....

Berolzheimer · 19th April 2006

Well of course if you can get hold of mix stems, predubs or original sound units it gets a lot easier & you'll have more control.

SnakeCained · 19th April 2006

Unwrap is ok if your on a schedule. I used it a bit and found it a bit hit and miss. Music is ok but a film with dialog, fx, and music seems to confuse it. Some work some don't.

Labours of love can be done with all kinds of phase trickery and reverbs.

I did some Japanese cartoon stuff (you know talking robots, dragons and slighlty too young girls) and got good results in Nuendo using the 5.1 panner and synthising a dialog centre. A little LFE boost on the explosions and I got there.

Sadly in the real world you'd probably shove it through the TC or the like.

And never,never ever play a normal cd or source through a Dolby Pro Logic decoder

Kraftwerk are particularly good for this.

Tibbon · 20th April 2006

Isn't the Bob Katz device "K-Surround" for this too?

audiothings · 20th April 2006

thanks for the input so far, will check out the suggested options. More info is welcome.

the classic age of indian movies is considered to be 1950-1975, it is very unlikely that there will be access to individual tracks/stems... Moreover, this will not be precious "restoration" type of work... it will be more like a large contract where one churns out a dvd master every few days...

actually, no miracles are possible and i already know this... just a bit of sweetening/widening/spreading, some noise reduction, some reverbs in the surrounds, some content sent to the lfe and so forth...

please check out chace productions.

jai shankar.

el cochino · 20th April 2006

You can convert stereo files to Dolby 2.0 and (pseudo) 5.1 with DVD Studio Pro. It's a DVD authoring software from Apple that comes with a program called "Compressor" that does all kinds of audio and video conversions.

nathanvacha · 20th April 2006

I made a surround mix out of a stereo mix last night. I spent about 30 minutes doing it (aside from bouncing and all) Now this is nothing to be released, just a little dvd project i'm working on... But basically I:

-Summed the stereo tracks into one mono track for center channel, and dropped the level down. I also threw a comp. plug on it and tamed it quite a bit, letting the dynamics pop out of the sides, center channel fills it out. -- Doesn't really solve your center-channel dialog issue, though, if the whole movie's not re-dubbed.

-For the surrounds, i just copied the fronts and reverbed it a bit for ambiance (but you have to pronounce it ah-mbiance) and touched another thing or two here and there, but it was really just a quick job...

Now, is it a real surround- mix? no, but for joe-schmo sitting at home with his surround system, he's going to give it a work out when he pops the disc in there. And it does sound good, I think.

jhg · 20th April 2006

More of a broadcast product: UPMAX

jwh1192 · 20th April 2006

hi,

i have myself done several dozen movies and music upmixes with the TC 6000 ... each one takes it own set of parameters ... sometimes we use the original left and right and use the TC to make center rears and sub info ... seems to downmix a little better like this ... this is the one thing you have to watch out for .. the consumer that does not have 5.1 system and the DVD player of receiver does the downmix to stereo ... you want to tkae great care that your downmix does not collapse in this situation ... 5.1 systems should have little issues .. it is the downmixing that will get you ointo trouble ...

and somethings like mono or tracks that have no ambience reverb or delays will not upmix at all ... like the other person said above you just get 5 monos all the same coming from all speakers ...

it is fun and frustrating all at the same time .. like a relationship

john

19th April 2006	#3
ResonantFilter Gear nut Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 107	Another vote for Unwrap - but do not expect anything close to a miracle if: 1 - the source is mono (not a chance of any convincing other than the same thing out of 5 speakers) 2 - you HAVE to spend a pile of time experimenting I did a number of trials of stereo to 5.1 in studio and live sound applications. You need some idea of how things react to the listening environment to get it right On the other hand, results can be pretty convincing with the right source material. As we all know, polishing turds just makes a shiny turd.... __________________ Long-time lurker finally putting head above the parapet... be gentle

19th April 2006	#4
Berolzheimer Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2002 Location: El Lay Posts: 2,209	Well of course if you can get hold of mix stems, predubs or original sound units it gets a lot easier & you'll have more control. __________________ Purveyor of fine sounds since 1961. My very incomplete IMDB list: My very incomplete IMDB list I'm all ears.

20th April 2006	#10
jhg Gear addict Joined: Aug 2005 Location: nyc Posts: 479	stereo - 5.1 synthesis More of a broadcast product: UPMAX

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19th April 2006	#2
Dunebuggy Gear nut Joined: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 108	TC 6000 electronics with Unwrap algorithm Or with Protools with Waves (dunno the name of the plugin)

19th April 2006	#5
SnakeCained Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2004 Location: LONDON Posts: 662	Unwrap is ok if your on a schedule. I used it a bit and found it a bit hit and miss. Music is ok but a film with dialog, fx, and music seems to confuse it. Some work some don't. Labours of love can be done with all kinds of phase trickery and reverbs. I did some Japanese cartoon stuff (you know talking robots, dragons and slighlty too young girls) and got good results in Nuendo using the 5.1 panner and synthising a dialog centre. A little LFE boost on the explosions and I got there. Sadly in the real world you'd probably shove it through the TC or the like. And never,never ever play a normal cd or source through a Dolby Pro Logic decoder Kraftwerk are particularly good for this.

20th April 2006	#6
Tibbon Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2004 Location: Boston/MA Posts: 4,780 2 Reviews written	Isn't the Bob Katz device "K-Surround" for this too?

20th April 2006	#7
audiothings Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 1,257 Thread Starter	thanks for the input so far, will check out the suggested options. More info is welcome. the classic age of indian movies is considered to be 1950-1975, it is very unlikely that there will be access to individual tracks/stems... Moreover, this will not be precious "restoration" type of work... it will be more like a large contract where one churns out a dvd master every few days... actually, no miracles are possible and i already know this... just a bit of sweetening/widening/spreading, some noise reduction, some reverbs in the surrounds, some content sent to the lfe and so forth... please check out chace productions. jai shankar.

20th April 2006	#8
el cochino Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Austria Posts: 942	You can convert stereo files to Dolby 2.0 and (pseudo) 5.1 with DVD Studio Pro. It's a DVD authoring software from Apple that comes with a program called "Compressor" that does all kinds of audio and video conversions.

20th April 2006	#9
nathanvacha Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando Posts: 1,231	I made a surround mix out of a stereo mix last night. I spent about 30 minutes doing it (aside from bouncing and all) Now this is nothing to be released, just a little dvd project i'm working on... But basically I: -Summed the stereo tracks into one mono track for center channel, and dropped the level down. I also threw a comp. plug on it and tamed it quite a bit, letting the dynamics pop out of the sides, center channel fills it out. -- Doesn't really solve your center-channel dialog issue, though, if the whole movie's not re-dubbed. -For the surrounds, i just copied the fronts and reverbed it a bit for ambiance (but you have to pronounce it ah-mbiance) and touched another thing or two here and there, but it was really just a quick job... Now, is it a real surround- mix? no, but for joe-schmo sitting at home with his surround system, he's going to give it a work out when he pops the disc in there. And it does sound good, I think.

20th April 2006	#11
jwh1192 Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: los angeles Posts: 866 1 Review written	hi, i have myself done several dozen movies and music upmixes with the TC 6000 ... each one takes it own set of parameters ... sometimes we use the original left and right and use the TC to make center rears and sub info ... seems to downmix a little better like this ... this is the one thing you have to watch out for .. the consumer that does not have 5.1 system and the DVD player of receiver does the downmix to stereo ... you want to tkae great care that your downmix does not collapse in this situation ... 5.1 systems should have little issues .. it is the downmixing that will get you ointo trouble ... and somethings like mono or tracks that have no ambience reverb or delays will not upmix at all ... like the other person said above you just get 5 monos all the same coming from all speakers ... it is fun and frustrating all at the same time .. like a relationship john