Login / Register
 
A/D Converters : which one sounds the best?
New Reply
Subscribe
#31
21st April 2006
Old 21st April 2006
  #31
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,252
My Recordings/Credits

Jim Williams is offline
I do have very large hands and feet.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
#32
21st April 2006
Old 21st April 2006
  #32
Gear addict
 
Andi Rauscher's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 342

Andi Rauscher is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Peck
As mentioned, here is a photo that includes 24 channels of Pacific Microsonics Model Two converters (in the far racks). This is the converter rig for the scoring sessions for the film "Memoirs of a Geisha". Normally, these Pacific Microsonics converters would stand out like the monolith from "2001" but in this photo they are dwarfed by the rest of the converters and other gear, which include:

4-ProTools HD-ACCEL: 1-192kHz, 2-96kHz, 1-Aliverb (not shown)
184-channels Genex 192kHz converters
48-channels Radar-V 192kHz Recorders
Plus various clocking & syncing gear.

This gear is owned by DMT Rentals in southern California. Thanks to Doug Botnick at DMT for the photo.

DP
THIS is the REAL Gearslutz!!
#33
21st April 2006
Old 21st April 2006
  #33
Mastering
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,099

bob katz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe

I tried them all... did blind tests with many of them. Ultimately, preferred the Lynx. That's what I bought and pocketed the extra cash. Thus I COMPLETELY disagree with your ascertion.

Lynx converters are extremely respectable. I remember when Stereophile magazine evaluated an internal (PCI card) Lynx converter and gave it an A, both measured and audible.

Yes, transparency is what separates the highest grade converters from the lowest. There are a number of fine sounding (pretty, slightly colored, but euphonic) converters that are less than an A+ grade but certainly better than A-. In many cases, the "A-" grade represents a very fine converter that is not totally transparent but whose artifacts are pleasant to the ear. I don't think there is anything wrong with that conceptually if the price differential is too much to handle.

To do a fair shootout you have to have identical sources feeding the A/D at the same time, gains matched to 0.1 dB and then audition and switch between synchronized files. You'd be shocked how much closer things sound to each other when you make your tests legitimately. I'm also a gear snob, someday when I have the budget to afford the Gold Lavry I'll have to do a legitimate shootout against the current best A/D converter I can afford (the Cranesong HEDD, not a bad D/A either!) and the Lavry Gold. I'm getting a Benchmark ADC-1 shortly also for a shootout.

The best sources I have right now would be analog tapes and SACDs. Live sources are problematic unless you did a live session directly into both A/Ds.
__________________
Bob Katz DIGITAL DOMAIN http://www.digido.com
"There are two kinds of fools. One says-this is old and therefore good. The other says-this is new and therefore better."

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
#34
22nd April 2006
Old 22nd April 2006
  #34
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 283

briefcasemanx is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
I'm enjoying the Crystal CS5381 A/D. It's a modified engineering evaluation board.
Don't expect to see it in pro audio converters anytime soon. Most of the high enders are stuck on the cheaper AKM 5394A A/D including Lavry and Mytek.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
I would like to hear more about this.
#35
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #35
Gear interested
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 27

muxlow is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante
Probably because the Hummer makes people think (perhaps wrongly) that you're an asshole who *would* crawl right over them if given half a chance. Seems like a lot of Hummer drivers give people that impression, hence the space. I don't know if you'd term being wary of Hummer drivers 'respect,' more like 'watch out for the asshole'! I'm not talking about you in particular of course!

Let's not beat around the bush. Most people that drive those things ARE assholes, if only for their complete disregard for the people around them and the environment as a whole. The REASON Hummers are given a wide berth is because the rest of us know that 99% of their "drivers" have NO CLUE how to drive the things and will probably kill someone with it sooner or later. That fact that we also correctly surmise that they're assholes is irrelevent to our defensive driving.

Anyways, the Hummer dudes are getting their medicine with gas at $3.00 a gallon and rising (thank god). Can't wait 'til it hits $4 or $5 and they're all scrambling to sell the stupid things in a dead economy. That'll be VERY amusing. "FOR SALE: Giant metal penis extension. 8 mpg highway, 2 city. MUST GO! Make me an offer."

Arrogant, obnoxious, Simply Uneccessary Vehicles.

Thanks for the war, ya pricks!
#36
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #36
Lives for gear
 
De chromium cob's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,674

De chromium cob is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
Same here. I love my Hummer, most BMW drivers are jerks on the road here in So. Cal.

The Hummer gives me some space and respect that I don't ever get in the Jeep Wrangler. Guess they know I could crawl right over them if they piss me off.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
http://www.fuh2.com/

#37
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #37
Gear interested
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 27

muxlow is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by De chromium cob

That about sums it up

Great site, too:

* The H2 is the ultimate poseur vehicle. It has the chassis of a Chevy Tahoe and a body that looks like the original Hummer; i.e. it's a Chevy Tahoe in disguise.

* The H2 is a gas guzzler. Because it has a gross vehicle weight rating over 8500 lbs, the US government does not require it to meet federal fuel efficiency regulations. Hummer isn't even required to publish its fuel economy (owners indicate that they get around 10 mpg for normal use). So while our brothers and sisters are off in the Middle East risking their lives to secure America's fossil fuel future, H2 drivers are pissing away our "spoils of victory" during each trip to the grocery store.



* The H2 is a polluter. Based on G.M.'s optimistic claim that it gets13 mpg, an H2 will produce 3.4 metric tons of carbon emissions in a typical year, nearly double that of G.M.'s Chevrolet Malibu sedan.

* The H2 is a death machine. You'd better hope that you don't collide with an H2 in your economy car. You can kiss your ass goodbye thanks to the H2's massive weight and raised bumpers. Too bad you couldn't afford an urban assault vehicle of your own. Or could you...?

* The H2 is a tax loophole. Under the current tax laws, business owners can deduct nearly half the cost of their H2s. If you are in the highest tax bracket, that's a tax savings of nearly $10,000! The government rewards you more savings for buying an H2 than you'd get for buying an electric car.
#38
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #38
Lives for gear
 
AdamJay's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,826

AdamJay is offline
they forgot to add:

* The H2 is the ideal vehicle for men with inadequate manhood.
__________________
#39
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Andrew Kinsey's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 955

Andrew Kinsey is offline
Weiss converters are also worth considering as well as Benchmark, Prism Sound and the Crane Song HEDD, Lavry are also now available in the UK.

If you need some prices let me know.
__________________
Best Wishes,
Andrew Kinsey


High End Audio Equipment Specialists In the UK & Europe
#40
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #40
Gear addict
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 372

mytek is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
I'm enjoying the Crystal CS5381 A/D. It's a modified engineering evaluation board.
Don't expect to see it in pro audio converters anytime soon. Most of the high enders are stuck on the cheaper AKM 5394A A/D including Lavry and Mytek.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Hi Jim

But these are _both_ sonically very good.

And there is PCM4202 which is 1 bit!

Burrbrown/TI made large transistors and got 1 bit performance to 120dB which is 3dB less than others but linearity is better, I think, detail is more silky in this one.

When using either of the three, the main sound differences end up being in analog stage , also related to power supply and clocking.

I design circuits for transparency which is never ending game of ever smaller returns. But nevertheless I can say that the 8X192 is the best sounding converter we ever made.

Cheers

Michal www.mytekdigital.com
#41
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #41
Gear maniac
 
David Lee's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Monica CA
Posts: 237

David Lee is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Peck
As mentioned, here is a photo that includes 24 channels of Pacific Microsonics Model Two converters (in the far racks). This is the converter rig for the scoring sessions for the film "Memoirs of a Geisha". Normally, these Pacific Microsonics converters would stand out like the monolith from "2001" but in this photo they are dwarfed by the rest of the converters and other gear, which include:

4-ProTools HD-ACCEL: 1-192kHz, 2-96kHz, 1-Aliverb (not shown)
184-channels Genex 192kHz converters
48-channels Radar-V 192kHz Recorders
Plus various clocking & syncing gear.

This gear is owned by DMT Rentals in southern California. Thanks to Doug Botnick at DMT for the photo.

DP
that...is very slutty...that's just insane...sweetness

I worked at a mastering house that used the Pacific Micrsonics stuff awhile back and it was quite amazing.
#42
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #42
Gear interested
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Antelope
Posts: 16

Send a message via AIM to daveoncontrols
daveoncontrols is offline
I was in your same situation and finally bit the bullet and got one, just got the Mytek 8X192. Run around.. 3200 from Vintage king, and if your looking for the advertised DAW bundle (including their firewire card) .. well the cards not ready yet so dont get your hopes up, the unit seems pretty stellar so far, if you have any questions ill try to answer
#43
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #43
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,252
My Recordings/Credits

Jim Williams is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by muxlow
Let's not beat around the bush. Most people that drive those things ARE assholes, if only for their complete disregard for the people around them and the environment as a whole. The REASON Hummers are given a wide berth is because the rest of us know that 99% of their "drivers" have NO CLUE how to drive the things and will probably kill someone with it sooner or later. That fact that we also correctly surmise that they're assholes is irrelevent to our defensive driving.

Anyways, the Hummer dudes are getting their medicine with gas at $3.00 a gallon and rising (thank god). Can't wait 'til it hits $4 or $5 and they're all scrambling to sell the stupid things in a dead economy. That'll be VERY amusing. "FOR SALE: Giant metal penis extension. 8 mpg highway, 2 city. MUST GO! Make me an offer."

Arrogant, obnoxious, Simply Uneccessary Vehicles.

Thanks for the war, ya pricks!
Assumptions are, well, for....

I get 20 MPH in mine. (H3 model).

I'm the one waiting to let you in (don't get thrown for that, drivers are very kind here in North San Diego County).

I'm the one doing 65 when you are passing me at 75.

I'm the one who forgave having kids so I can waste as much resources as my phantom family would use.

I use it for what it was designed for, heavy off road use in challenging locations.
Not so I can get down to Starbucks for a cafe latte after an earthquake.

Last time I remembered, this is America, where I can do stuff you don't approve of so you can do stuff I don't approve of. It's called freedom, get used to it.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
#44
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #44
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,500

dubrichie is offline
well.


i drive a vw polo with an engine capacity of just under 1 litre.


i use rme converters.


but for some strange reason i still enjoyed reading this thread.


go figure eh?
__________________
Regards,

Richie.

"a paradigm of restraint and good taste at a time of frequent excess"
#45
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #45
Lives for gear
 
GearHunter's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,582

GearHunter is offline
Can we turn this back to converters, and specifically converters that are still being made? Among the highest end of reference or mastering converters, don't forget the Weiss Gambit ADC2. It is stunning in its accuracy and neutrality. Conversion doesn't get better than this. And it's less money than the Lavery Gold.

http://www.weiss.ch/adc2/adc2.html

Swiss Technology at its finest!
#46
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #46
Gear nut
 
innesireinar's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 107

innesireinar is offline
[QUOTE=raal]a very well known mastering engineer wrote: "Our favorite A/D D/A converter is the Pacific Microsonics Model Two. All the others you mention are in second place for us. At 192kHz I defy anyone to reliably differentiate the converted sound verses the original (analog source)." he considered Lavry Gold, Weiss, DCS, Prism and others second to these. he also said many people liked all of these converters so i should listen to them for myself before deciding. will not say his name as he wrote me privately and i haven't asked his permission to post his opinion.

at any rate, from JOHN's original post i gather he's looking at multichannel systems. can't imagine anyone getting 16 or 24 channels of Lavry Gold or Pacific Microsonics for tracking/recording.

since i've also been looking for ADDAs recently, here's what i've found. hope this is of some help:

1. Apogee Big Ben -- great clock. some people say Isochrone is better. i have an Isochrone and just ordered Apogee 16X converters, so as soon as i can, i'll compare the 16X clocked to Isochrone and to their own clock (same as BB) - will also clock my Digi 192s to Isochrone and 16X and report results.

I read a thread on the DUC some months ago (maybe 1 year) where there was pasted an article from a Digi guy who says that the 192 interfaces, when clocked by an external source, do a thing like "reclocking" and an external clock works for the 192 only for the sync of the digital word but it will always the 192's PLL that drives the converters, therefore the quality of an external clock doesn't affect the sound of the 192 interface.
This was what I remember, but if you want to be sure what this article exactly said, do a search on the DUC.
#47
25th April 2006
Old 25th April 2006
  #47
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: EARS/Chicago
Posts: 5,557

Plush is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Peck
A few details and tidbits about this rig - The converters shown here were used for the duration of the scoring sessions for the film, which took a few weeks and were done at both Sony Scoring in Culver City using a highly customized Neve 88R, and also at UCLA's Royce Hall with Yo Yo Mah and Itzhak Pearlman. The banks of converters were used for both A/D into the DAWs and D/A monitoring at Sony, and for A/D at Royce Hall (monitoring there was done via a Yamaha DM2000).

DP

Looks like total overkill to me. In fact I think it's vulgar.
Seriously, I'm not impressed.

I would have mixed the whole thing through the Neve to 2 track and generated a surround mix at the same time to analog multi-track.

Then they could overlay the synth onto that. . .
#48
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #48
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: mexico
Posts: 5,068

raal is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by innesireinar
I read a thread on the DUC some months ago (maybe 1 year) where there was pasted an article from a Digi guy who says that the 192 interfaces, when clocked by an external source, do a thing like "reclocking" and an external clock works for the 192 only for the sync of the digital word but it will always the 192's PLL that drives the converters, therefore the quality of an external clock doesn't affect the sound of the 192 interface.
This was what I remember, but if you want to be sure what this article exactly said, do a search on the DUC.
yes, the head of sales for digi latin america is a friend of mine -- he said the same thing, so i told him told come over to the house and listen for himself...

still scratching my head after hearing Lynn Fuston's ADCD on NS10s in the living room, Sony 7506 headphones, and S3As + BM15s w/sub in the studio...

but as for Isochrone on Digi 192s compared to its internal clock -- another slut and myself, blind, both picked the Isochrone at least 2 yards away from the sweet spot so as not to see what the other guy was selecting. we picked it out immediately, no need for a second round. i posted this on another thread.

if anyone's in mexico city they're welcome to come over and check it out themselves.
#49
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #49
Gear maniac
 
Kalite Marka's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 217

Kalite Marka is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
...Last time I remembered, this is America, where I can do stuff you don't approve of so you can do stuff I don't approve of. It's called freedom, get used to it.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Speaking of Freedom, would like to exercise my freedom of right to respond.

You stupid piece of crap minded Azzhole…
How easily you’re justifying a machine that basically symbolizes war and power.
War in order to have Power by sacrificing poor American/foreign kids.
Fuuck your stupid ignorant justification
Fuuck Audioupgrades crap business that you do
...and finally Fuuck you.
Now go show your ugly-pile-of-metal up your arss to feel how it glides before making ignorant comments about freedom!
#50
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #50
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,075

Kiwiburger is offline
Aahh - smell the freedom!
#51
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Dave Peck's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: S.F bay area
Posts: 2,374

Dave Peck is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush
Looks like total overkill to me. In fact I think it's vulgar.
What you're seeing is an example of some of the changes in film sound in recent years. With films being mixed on huge digital consoles with extensive automation and often with extensive DAW control, there is more of a tendency to keep all tracks separate until the final fix sessions since there is no real reason to 'commit' and reduce music tracks to a stereo mix or a few stems prior to final mix. It takes more converters up front, and it takes up a lot more room in th DAWs, but you get a lot more flexibility during the final assembly. For example, if the orchestral percussion instruments are clashing with the sound effects, you don't have to turn down the entire orchestra, you can change the orchestral mix a bit until it fits. Or you can decide to use the same musical passage in two scenes, but with more strings in one scene and more woodwinds in the other. etc.

It's the same recording process and the same number of channels, they just don't get mixed until the end.

DP
#52
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #52
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,252
My Recordings/Credits

Jim Williams is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalite Marka
Speaking of Freedom, would like to exercise my freedom of right to respond.

You stupid piece of crap minded Azzhole…
How easily you’re justifying a machine that basically symbolizes war and power.
War in order to have Power by sacrificing poor American/foreign kids.
Fuuck your stupid ignorant justification
Fuuck Audioupgrades crap business that you do
...and finally Fuuck you.
Now go show your ugly-pile-of-metal up your arss to feel how it glides before making ignorant comments about freedom!
Sounds like someone has a "Hummer=military=Iraq=globalist power problem?

Was it something I said? I do ride my bike a lot, does that help?

Somehow I don't think we would be having this conversation in China.

Now, back to converters....

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
#53
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #53
Gear addict
 
mhartman's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 391

mhartman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
I do ride my bike a lot, does that help?
If your H3 is associated with War and Power, I'm sure that your bike will be associated with Communist China. One way, you're a power monger, the other you're a communist. Just can't win these days. I'm sure walking is offensive to someone.
#54
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,776

Ashermusic is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
Assumptions are, well, for....

I get 20 MPH in mine. (H3 model).

I'm the one waiting to let you in (don't get thrown for that, drivers are very kind here in North San Diego County).

I'm the one doing 65 when you are passing me at 75.

I'm the one who forgave having kids so I can waste as much resources as my phantom family would use.

I use it for what it was designed for, heavy off road use in challenging locations.
Not so I can get down to Starbucks for a cafe latte after an earthquake.

Last time I remembered, this is America, where I can do stuff you don't approve of so you can do stuff I don't approve of. It's called freedom, get used to it.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Indeed. And because it is America and you have chosen to brag about it in a public forum they also have the right to tell you they don't approve of your choice.

You can't have it both ways, Jim.

BTW, do you have a mod for the A/D on my Echo Layla 3G?
#55
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #55
Lives for gear
 
Knastratt's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Karlstad, Sweden
Posts: 787

Knastratt is offline
Don't mean to bring this OT - but the transfer from M-Audio to Lucid rocked my world. Perhaps the next step will rock it even further!

/Spring is in the air! Here.
__________________
Pär Hällquist
mixerized.com studio
__________________

Firmly stuck between Fletcher-Munson and Dunning-Kruger
#56
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #56
Lives for gear
 
just.sounds's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Weesp NL
Posts: 518

just.sounds is offline
AD converter

Maybe not so widespread.

But for A/D conversion (currently only DSD) Give the Grimmaudio AD1 a listen
They are working on the DD1 (digital format converter)
The performance of the AD1 is very impressive.
And it is build without converter chips (discrete)

http://www.audio.com

+ you get a cool smiley when you type the link
__________________
"Music" Just a combination of sounds.
http://www.just-sounds.nl
#57
26th April 2006
Old 26th April 2006
  #57
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 228

Send a message via AIM to Sam Lord
Sam Lord is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by just.sounds
...Give the Grimmaudio AD1 a listen
They are working on the DD1 (digital format converter)
The performance of the AD1 is very impressive.
And it is build without converter chips (discrete)...
Looks extremely cool--and expensive. Any prices? Thanks.
#58
27th April 2006
Old 27th April 2006
  #58
Lives for gear
 
just.sounds's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Weesp NL
Posts: 518

just.sounds is offline
grimmaudio AD1

Well it is €12000 for a 8 channnel unit but they have anything from 2 to 8 channels so I think they range from €5000,- to €12000,- yup high end prices!
I cannot afford that kind of money but Eelco Grimm is a teacher at my school, so my attention was caught when I heard some recordings from the unit.
I don't like to advertise but I was stunned.
I did not have the chance to do a side by side comparison with other units.
But I can at least tell that this company put a lot of efford in this product.
And the recordings I heard are beautiful.
#59
27th April 2006
Old 27th April 2006
  #59
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 228

Send a message via AIM to Sam Lord
Sam Lord is offline
Thank you just.sounds for the information and your impressions! thumbsup Regards, Sam
#60
27th April 2006
Old 27th April 2006
  #60
Lives for gear
 
catfish11's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: maui, hi. USA
Posts: 668

catfish11 is offline
this is a really weird thread
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Snatchman / So much gear, so little time!
1
tree montgomery / Low End Theory
14
RPiper / So much gear, so little time!
13
woods / High end
0

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.