Wat to use for R&B vocal, air vocal effect

Blingx7 · 15th April 2006, 06:24 AM

What do theese professional use to get that effect where it sounds like smooth air in the vocals,like u hear in R&b vocals,wat do they use and wat can i do to get my sesions vocals close to that without spending alot of money ..

i wanna kno every detai too l..lol

Mount Cyanide · 15th April 2006, 06:28 AM

Get a good singer, tell them to sing it airy, then boost 14k or higher.

Blingx7 · 15th April 2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mount Cyanide

Get a good singer, tell them to sing it airy, then boost 14k or higher.

dang ..is that really how they do it ? ..but u do kno wat im talkin bout rite? ..or maybe i need to post a example ?

Thumper · 15th April 2006, 07:59 AM

The Sony 800g microphone has a lot to do with it. Built in 'smiley face' curve. I actually love that mic, but I'm one of the few.

Is it cheap? no...

The Audio Technica 4060 kind of has the same thing going on, but no where near as extreem. Another awesome mic... those can be had for around 1k I think...

Still too expensive? Buy a fan and have it blowing right on the mic during the take. That should add some air to it. HA!!!

But seriously, r&b vox usually are done using the sony mic, and it's nice and scooped sounding, which i THINK is what you're asking for.

Might be a good idea to post a sample, though... or just an artist and song title.

mtstudi@pacbell · 15th April 2006, 07:20 PM

AKG C12 or Sony C800. Possibly Neumann U87 if the others are too much top.

www.bluethumbproductions.com

Bob Olhsson · 15th April 2006, 08:22 PM

Don't use a pop filter!

Brandino221 · 15th April 2006, 09:25 PM

I think a nice outboard EQ with the right mic/micpre will do the trick.
The "sound" comes from EQ for sure. But...has to be the right mic that you are EQing.
I'm not much of a fan of the u87. I'ts a great mic don't get me wrong. However.. it's kinda of harsh and sterile sounding to me. I know I don't care for it on my vocals. But it might work for you.

heathen · 16th April 2006, 03:07 AM

Nice mic ,nice comp set very sparingly and a great eq I like the Avalon 2055 for a nice airy and silky vocal sound.

kingofswing · 16th April 2006, 03:14 AM

The affordable Rode K2 (i know this is a high end section) works well for this. I have used it for some RnB vocal tracks on both males and females, but you need a good vocalist...someone with a breathy voice, and it all helps.

A quality EQ helps too, and adding some top can bring some air out of the vocal. Also a well sustained comp setting helps.

djui5 · 16th April 2006, 03:17 AM

there's an article somewhere with JJP talking about using a joe meek comp for this.....I believe on Maria's vocals too.

Brandino221 · 16th April 2006, 03:48 AM

maybe a Tubetech CL1B for compression (Thrill says they are killer). I never used but I hear the pultecs for eq is the way to go.

Anyone able to shine some light on that idea?

Blingx7 · 16th April 2006, 05:20 AM

ok..this is the only thing i could find for a example ..but its a acapella ..so it should be able to be heard clearly. Its " chris brown excuse me miss acapella"...I know it was done in probally a 4million dolar studio , but yeh.. thats the sound i was going for

Kenny Gioia · 16th April 2006, 07:12 AM

Some singers can just do this effect.

If you really want to accentuate it, try duplicating the track and filtering out everything below 1Khz. Hi Pass filter.

Boost that at around 8 - 10 kHz alot.

Now compress the hell out of that and blend it back with the vocal.

Make sure that you shift the track (or use ADC) to compensate for plugins.

robot gigante · 16th April 2006, 07:24 AM

The Air band on a NTI/Nightpro EQ3 is also incredibly helpful, in conjunction with the already mentioned suggestions.

Blingx7 · 16th April 2006, 09:45 PM

hmmm..so everybody does it diffrently? ..i always thought since this effect is use on every R&b artist theese dayz it was some kind of hardware they had or maybe even plugin

u b k · 20th April 2006, 05:55 AM

some combo of the following:

breathy vocals

airy LDC (251, 800g)

heavy compression

hi pass filter

generous air band boost (lang is king!) + de-esser

if you only have plugs, you can do it, but it won't be silky. ain't nothing like analog.

gregoire
del ubik

murp · 20th April 2006, 06:28 AM

No one has mentioned this yet, but I think that the "air" around the vocal is primarily provided by the mix.

Try this: Mute everything. Now, bring up the vocal. Next, bring up everything else one instrument at a time until the air your are looking for is gone. That last instrument is what is competing for the air space in your mix. Figure out how to remove that part of that instrument from that part of the mix's spectrum. EQ it, pan it, pull the fader down, do whatever it takes to get it out of the way.

I realize it's Mixing 101, but I'm just saying it's not necessarily the gear.

Blingx7 · 21st April 2006, 03:54 AM

i always thought it was in the mixing, it didnt no it was simple eqing , i always thought it was like plugins or proccessors that does it. ..Everybody is saying something diffrent about how to get it, i even once thought it was a good solid stereo compressor proccesor with this preset. QUOTE=murp]No one has mentioned this yet, but I think that the "air" around the vocal is primarily provided by the mix.

Try this: Mute everything. Now, bring up the vocal. Next, bring up everything else one instrument at a time until the air your are looking for is gone. That last instrument is what is competing for the air space in your mix. Figure out how to remove that part of that instrument from that part of the mix's spectrum. EQ it, pan it, pull the fader down, do whatever it takes to get it out of the way.

I realize it's Mixing 101, but I'm just saying it's not necessarily the gear.[/quote]

Blingx7 · 21st April 2006, 03:56 AM

wow i messed dat quote up rite there lol..my bad this is wat i typed

" i always thought it was in the mixing, it didnt no it was simple eqing , i always thought it was like plugins or proccessors that does it. ..Everybody is saying something diffrent about how to get it, i even once thought it was a good solid stereo compressor proccesor with this preset."

PRobb · 21st April 2006, 04:04 AM

Ask the singer to sing for you in control room. If you hear the air, any good mic will capture it. If you don't, no mic will produce it. I had the chance to record Toni Braxton. When she was in the control room learning the song, the air tone was right there. I used a Sony 800 and an LA-3A and that brought it out nicely, but it was there to start with.

Look at it this way. There is no mic in the world that could make me sound like Roy Orbison.

**TonyBelmont** · 21st April 2006, 04:39 AM

You're all wrong...

Some of these are worth trying... But, none is how they get the air in R&B vocals.... I know exactly what you are talking about (the Mariah Carey upper air thing right?)... It's not so much microphone, and it's not EQ.

It IS all layering!!!! And proper layering techniques (which is specific to modern R&B).... Sony C800G makes it easier, but I can get that sound with a lot of mics... The Peluso 22 251 would be good, and it's only a little more than $1000....

Brandino221 · 21st April 2006, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

You're all wrong...

Some of these are worth trying... But, none is how they get the air in R&B vocals.... I know exactly what you are talking about (the Mariah Carey upper air thing right?)... It's not so much microphone, and it's not EQ.

It IS all layering!!!! And proper layering techniques (which is specific to modern R&B).... Sony C800G makes it easier, but I can get that sound with a lot of mics... The Peluso 22 251 would be good, and it's only a little more than $1000....

sure it's all layering. Different distances from the mic as well on each track and them EQ them the right way as well. Am I wrong? Would you mind sharing on how you do it? And what other mics would you say can do this?

Shan · 21st April 2006, 04:55 AM

Some tips here that should help.

Shane

Blingx7 · 21st April 2006, 04:57 AM

so to clear this up..its not the eqing, and theres not no proccesor or pluggin you can buy to get this effect ...its all in the mic and layering it ?????????????

Sqye · 21st April 2006, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Produceher

Make sure that you shift the track (or use ADC) to compensate for plugins.

that's automatic diatribe complacement, right?

Sqye · 21st April 2006, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRobb

Look at it this way. There is no mic in the world that could make me sound like Roy Orbison.

yes there is - it's called the orbidelux eroy 251

robot gigante · 21st April 2006, 05:14 AM

Quote:

so to clear this up..its not the eqing

It can be.

Quote:

and theres not no proccesor or pluggin you can buy to get this effect.

Not one that you can slap on a vocal track and instantly get the sound in your mix, no. But some processing will help bring it out.

Quote:

its all in the mic and layering it

In addition to everything else, yes that too.

I agree, a lot of it comes from the vocalist.

PRobb · 21st April 2006, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqye

yes there is - it's called the orbidelux eroy 251

DANG! Gotta get me one of them.

heathen · 21st April 2006, 05:25 AM

Probb and tony are both right, but a top eq and comp will glue the layers together,nicely. You cant capture what is'nt there. Sometimes layering is difficult if the singer is not that good either if they are not spot on every new layer will be another layer of mess. Combine these tequniques with a great vocalist and your laughing.

**TonyBelmont** · 21st April 2006, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandino221

sure it's all layering. Different distances from the mic as well on each track and them EQ them the right way as well. Am I wrong? Would you mind sharing on how you do it? And what other mics would you say can do this?

Shan's post has a good run down of similar techniques to what I use.... The trick is getting the whisper tracks right which can be difficult, yet essential to get that air.

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15th April 2006, 06:24 AM	#1
Blingx7 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Va Posts: 25	Wat to use for R&B vocal, air vocal effect What do theese professional use to get that effect where it sounds like smooth air in the vocals,like u hear in R&b vocals,wat do they use and wat can i do to get my sesions vocals close to that without spending alot of money .. i wanna kno every detai too l..lol

15th April 2006, 06:28 AM	#2
Mount Cyanide Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: La Villa de Atwater de Los Angeles, CA Posts: 328	Get a good singer, tell them to sing it airy, then boost 14k or higher. __________________ myspace.com/cyrusmelchor

15th April 2006, 08:22 PM	#6
Bob Olhsson Motown legend Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Songwriter Gulch, Nashville TN Posts: 5,248	Don't use a pop filter! __________________ Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233 Bob's room 615 385-8051 Music Industry 2.0

15th April 2006, 09:25 PM	#7
Brandino221 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Central FL. Londrina, Curitiba, PR, Brasil. Posts: 436	I think a nice outboard EQ with the right mic/micpre will do the trick. The "sound" comes from EQ for sure. But...has to be the right mic that you are EQing. I'm not much of a fan of the u87. I'ts a great mic don't get me wrong. However.. it's kinda of harsh and sterile sounding to me. I know I don't care for it on my vocals. But it might work for you. __________________ Antonio

15th April 2006, 07:59 AM	#4
Thumper Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 408	The Sony 800g microphone has a lot to do with it. Built in 'smiley face' curve. I actually love that mic, but I'm one of the few. Is it cheap? no... The Audio Technica 4060 kind of has the same thing going on, but no where near as extreem. Another awesome mic... those can be had for around 1k I think... Still too expensive? Buy a fan and have it blowing right on the mic during the take. That should add some air to it. HA!!! But seriously, r&b vox usually are done using the sony mic, and it's nice and scooped sounding, which i THINK is what you're asking for. Might be a good idea to post a sample, though... or just an artist and song title.

15th April 2006, 07:20 PM	#5
mtstudi@pacbell Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 887	AKG C12 or Sony C800. Possibly Neumann U87 if the others are too much top. www.bluethumbproductions.com

16th April 2006, 03:07 AM	#8
heathen Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,425	Nice mic ,nice comp set very sparingly and a great eq I like the Avalon 2055 for a nice airy and silky vocal sound.

16th April 2006, 03:14 AM	#9
kingofswing Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 924	The affordable Rode K2 (i know this is a high end section) works well for this. I have used it for some RnB vocal tracks on both males and females, but you need a good vocalist...someone with a breathy voice, and it all helps. A quality EQ helps too, and adding some top can bring some air out of the vocal. Also a well sustained comp setting helps.

16th April 2006, 03:17 AM	#10
djui5 Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix Posts: 6,680	there's an article somewhere with JJP talking about using a joe meek comp for this.....I believe on Maria's vocals too. __________________ _________________ "What is a crossfire hurricane & why wasn't I born in one?" Randy Wright http://www.myspace.com/djui5

16th April 2006, 03:48 AM	#11
Brandino221 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Central FL. Londrina, Curitiba, PR, Brasil. Posts: 436	maybe a Tubetech CL1B for compression (Thrill says they are killer). I never used but I hear the pultecs for eq is the way to go. Anyone able to shine some light on that idea? __________________ Antonio

16th April 2006, 07:12 AM	#13
Kenny Gioia Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 2,550	Some singers can just do this effect. If you really want to accentuate it, try duplicating the track and filtering out everything below 1Khz. Hi Pass filter. Boost that at around 8 - 10 kHz alot. Now compress the hell out of that and blend it back with the vocal. Make sure that you shift the track (or use ADC) to compensate for plugins. __________________

16th April 2006, 07:24 AM	#14
robot gigante Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: out west Posts: 2,974	The Air band on a NTI/Nightpro EQ3 is also incredibly helpful, in conjunction with the already mentioned suggestions. __________________ "Action and contemplation- never one without the other" - Gaston Rebuffat "Ambition feeds on itself; it can never be satisfied; you can only let go of it." - Doug Scott "Fresh air is best" -Chongo

16th April 2006, 09:45 PM	#15
Blingx7 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Va Posts: 25	hmmm..so everybody does it diffrently? ..i always thought since this effect is use on every R&b artist theese dayz it was some kind of hardware they had or maybe even plugin

20th April 2006, 05:55 AM	#16
u b k Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: m a n h a t t a n Posts: 5,545	some combo of the following: breathy vocals airy LDC (251, 800g) heavy compression hi pass filter generous air band boost (lang is king!) + de-esser if you only have plugs, you can do it, but it won't be silky. ain't nothing like analog. gregoire del ubik

20th April 2006, 06:28 AM	#17
murp Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 277	No one has mentioned this yet, but I think that the "air" around the vocal is primarily provided by the mix. Try this: Mute everything. Now, bring up the vocal. Next, bring up everything else one instrument at a time until the air your are looking for is gone. That last instrument is what is competing for the air space in your mix. Figure out how to remove that part of that instrument from that part of the mix's spectrum. EQ it, pan it, pull the fader down, do whatever it takes to get it out of the way. I realize it's Mixing 101, but I'm just saying it's not necessarily the gear. __________________ Matt Parlane GraceNote Recording Studio http://www.gracenote.co.nz matt@gracenote.co.nz

21st April 2006, 03:54 AM	#18
Blingx7 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Va Posts: 25	i always thought it was in the mixing, it didnt no it was simple eqing , i always thought it was like plugins or proccessors that does it. ..Everybody is saying something diffrent about how to get it, i even once thought it was a good solid stereo compressor proccesor with this preset. QUOTE=murp]No one has mentioned this yet, but I think that the "air" around the vocal is primarily provided by the mix. Try this: Mute everything. Now, bring up the vocal. Next, bring up everything else one instrument at a time until the air your are looking for is gone. That last instrument is what is competing for the air space in your mix. Figure out how to remove that part of that instrument from that part of the mix's spectrum. EQ it, pan it, pull the fader down, do whatever it takes to get it out of the way. I realize it's Mixing 101, but I'm just saying it's not necessarily the gear.[/quote]

21st April 2006, 03:56 AM	#19
Blingx7 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Va Posts: 25	wow i messed dat quote up rite there lol..my bad this is wat i typed " i always thought it was in the mixing, it didnt no it was simple eqing , i always thought it was like plugins or proccessors that does it. ..Everybody is saying something diffrent about how to get it, i even once thought it was a good solid stereo compressor proccesor with this preset."

21st April 2006, 04:04 AM	#20
PRobb Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 7,868	Ask the singer to sing for you in control room. If you hear the air, any good mic will capture it. If you don't, no mic will produce it. I had the chance to record Toni Braxton. When she was in the control room learning the song, the air tone was right there. I used a Sony 800 and an LA-3A and that brought it out nicely, but it was there to start with. Look at it this way. There is no mic in the world that could make me sound like Roy Orbison. __________________ We are the people we've been waiting for -Barak Obama The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke

21st April 2006, 04:39 AM	#21
TonyBelmont Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boston,MA Providence,RI Posts: 10,070	You're all wrong... Some of these are worth trying... But, none is how they get the air in R&B vocals.... I know exactly what you are talking about (the Mariah Carey upper air thing right?)... It's not so much microphone, and it's not EQ. It IS all layering!!!! And proper layering techniques (which is specific to modern R&B).... Sony C800G makes it easier, but I can get that sound with a lot of mics... The Peluso 22 251 would be good, and it's only a little more than $1000.... __________________ Tony Belmont We Sell Gear! Need plugins? Check out PluginDiscounts.com

21st April 2006, 04:55 AM	#23
Shan Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 633	Some tips here that should help. Shane __________________ "Music should be performed by the musician not by the engineer." Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM _____________________________________________

21st April 2006, 04:57 AM	#24
Blingx7 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Va Posts: 25	SO TO CLEAR THIS UP.. so to clear this up..its not the eqing, and theres not no proccesor or pluggin you can buy to get this effect ...its all in the mic and layering it ?????????????

21st April 2006, 05:25 AM	#29
heathen Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,425	Probb and tony are both right, but a top eq and comp will glue the layers together,nicely. You cant capture what is'nt there. Sometimes layering is difficult if the singer is not that good either if they are not spot on every new layer will be another layer of mess. Combine these tequniques with a great vocalist and your laughing.