IBIS - my first impressions

[ISedlacek]

So I got the Ibis this morning and played with it a bit ...

Well - the first thing: the way of controlling it, is quite horrible for me ! :-)) all those messy tones with some occassional numbers in between ... That´s really a mess ! As some cast-away, I search for at least one frequency which is somewhere there (difficult to find) and just guess what is between it and the next.
This sounds really a bit excentric to me (kind of forced, artificial originality) ... and as probably everybody else I would like to have normal frequencies there, as a standard marking for the last few decades). There is no advantage in this type of labelling, just to add a small suffering to the user I feel ... +1 step button makes it even more confusing ...
Yes, you can say - musical notes, but I do not think of notes in terms of frequency. You can also say - you are then forced to listen rather than to look at the frenquencies - but first, you don t have to look at them even if they are there and second - if this is the intention, then there should be rather no values, just empty buttons - you would really have to listen then ...)

It is the same to me as if instead of dB values in output or input gain someone puts a scale like "spring breeze-small river-wind-motorcycle- storm - turbo jet-space craft ..." it would be also quite original ...

There are few other things which I would not expect from a unit in this (very high) price range:

There is no detended 0 on the gain buttons.
You cannot bypass the bands
There is no output gain, no meters ... (at least clearly showing that the signal is coming through)

All the bands having buttons in the same colour is also a bit confusing (once there is no stereo link - in 99,9% cases I use it as stereo only, so must do a setting twice - for each channel separately ...) - so sometimes I am not sure whether I touched the same band in L and R channel.
(The buttons are greener than I thought ... :-)
On the unit I have I hear a slight physical transformer hum ...

Now to the good side of it - it seems to give a kind of effortless, professional sound stamp to the processed sound. Everything seems to sound "better" and more settled as if. (I must compare it with the same settings on top EQ plugins) ...

It seems to slightly widen the stereo image ?

(to be continued)

[WEAPON_X]

i once worked with it at a remote location, and finally got around the labeling with great results - i asked the band for lead sheets and adjusted the eq accordingly to the musical context eg. bringing out the low e,a ,d and g strings for a heavy rock tune on a bass - and i was pretty stunned with the results. same thing goes for guitars eg . lowering the level of the fifth on a 5-root-third chord and bringing out more of the root. the possibilities seemed endless to me once i got used.
in all i would say that the ibis gives you the chance of "conducting" the sound e.g. more thirds on instruments, in a much more muscial way, than in an technical way like other eqs do.

secondly you can just use a hz to tone reference, in bob katz's bible the is a chart, which is usefull or use cranesong's own:
http://www.cranesong.com/IBIS%20FREQUENCY%20CHART.html

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by WEAPON_X

i once worked with it at a remote location, and finally got around the labeling with great results - i asked the band for lead sheets and adjusted the eq accordingly to the musical context eg. bringing out the low e,a ,d and g strings for a heavy rock tune on a bass - and i was pretty stunned with the results. same thing goes for guitars eg . lowering the level of the fifth on a 5-root-third chord and bringing out more of the root. the possibilities seemed endless to me once i got used.
in all i would say that the ibis gives you the chance of "conducting" the sound e.g. more thirds on instruments, in a much more muscial way, than in an technical way like other eqs do.

secondly you can just use a hz to tone reference, in bob katz's bible the is a chart, which is usefull or use cranesong's own:
http://www.cranesong.com/IBIS%20FREQUENCY%20CHART.html

Yes, but if you play normal music with all the tones present - which one would you emphasise ? But yes, there is a local proverb - "in the end one will get used even to a gallow-tree"

So far it sounds very nice ... must check and compare more ...

[Lynn Fuston]

Maybe you should print out this page and keep it next to your IBIS.

http://www.cranesong.com/IBIS%20FREQUENCY%20CHART.html

[ethan_c]

Umm, hate to state the obvious but didn't you at least look at a picture of the unit before dropping 4k +? I have one and love it but I checked out everything I could about the unit including downloading the pdf manual and reading it several times...

[Mind-Over-Midi]

Originally Posted by ethan_c

Umm, hate to state the obvious but didn't you at least look at a picture of the unit before dropping 4k +? I have one and love it but I checked out everything I could about the unit including downloading the pdf manual and reading it several times...

I was thinking the same thing while I was reading this. How could you possibly be surprised by all of this? Didn't you do any research at all on the unit? I could see if you ran into this unit at someone's studio and tried it out, but for a unit that you purchased, I'd have thought you would have found all of this out before you ordered it.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by ethan_c

Umm, hate to state the obvious but didn't you at least look at a picture of the unit before dropping 4k +? I have one and love it but I checked out everything I could about the unit including downloading the pdf manual and reading it several times...

Maybe you should like to know that I am just demoing it Who told you I have purchased it ?
Just sharing first spontaneous impressions ...

But anyway - after playing with it today and trying to process various types of music, instruments etc., I must say - all the oddities forgiven !
It sounds really GREAT ! Exactly as I was dreaming about - with just small settings it makes everything sounding a league better, removing the thin digital brush and entering the nice smooth euphonic, top professional sound dimension.
I tried the same settings with all possible plugins - NO WAY ...

Hopefully it is possible to get used to the controls one day ...

[blaugruen7]

just a spontanous idea.
isnt it possible to get the regular info on the knobs on this unit?
maybe as an option?

[Brad Blackwood]

Nope. I practically begged Dave to use normal numbers on the mastering version (it's a different face, +/-6dB boost/cut) but he wouldn't budge.

Things is, after a few weeks, you don't even think about it. You know the general area you;re looking for, specific numbers don't really matter. I just dial it in...

[Lynn Fuston]

You need numbers?

Break out the DYMO labeler and stick some on there.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

I have a sticker on the front of my Cranesong HEDD. The BYPASS switch is labeled IN/OUT. But when the BYPASS switch is IN, then the unit is processing. When the BYPASS function is OUT, then the unit is actually bypassed. See, it's a PROCESS switch. When you want the HEDD processing in, you put the switch to the IN position. So I covered up the BYPASS lettering with a label that says PROCESS. I just got tired of having to think about it every time I flipped the switch.

But God bless Dave Hill. He can call those switches whatever he wants as long as he keeps making them sound so good.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

Nope. I practically begged Dave to use normal numbers on the mastering version (it's a different face, +/-6dB boost/cut) but he wouldn't budge.

Can you say "aftermarket add-ons?" Somehow I don't think the market is huge.

[jayfrigo]

Ergonomically it's a strange bird. Sonically it wasn't bad, but not my cup of tea.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

Ergonomically it's a strange bird. Sonically it wasn't bad, but not my cup of tea.

I only listened to it at trade shows, but I could tell the COLOR knob was the thing that set it apart. I haven't heard anything like that in any other equalizer.

Sort of like the PENTODE and TAPE controls on the HEDD. Take those off the HEDD and it's just another great sounding ADC. But with them on there, there's nothing else that does what it does.

[doogie]

[QUOTE=ISedlacek]So I got the Ibis this morning and played with it a bit ...

Well - the first thing: the way of controlling it, is quite horrible for me ! :-)) all those messy tones with some occassional numbers in between ... That´s really a mess ! As some cast-away, I search for at least one frequency which is somewhere there (difficult to find) and just guess what is between it and the next.
This sounds really a bit excentric to me (kind of forced, artificial originality) ... and as probably everybody else I would like to have normal frequencies there, as a standard marking for the last few decades). There is no advantage in this type of labelling, just to add a small suffering to the user I feel ... +1 step button makes it even more confusing ...
Yes, you can say - musical notes, but I do not think of notes in terms of frequency. You can also say - you are then forced to listen rather than to look at the frenquencies - but first, you don t have to look at them even if they are there and second - if this is the intention, then there should be rather no values, just empty buttons - you would really have to listen then ...)




look I hope this doesn't sound flippant or disrespectful but this is an awesome sounding eq and THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT issue ...... engineers who have the means and the ambition to buy an Ibis should have a little knowledge of music ... scales and fundementals, 1st 3rds and 5ths and so on of the music they are working on for *****! sake .....DON'T GET ME STARTED .... THANKS DAVE FOR THIS WONDERFUL EQ IT HAS CHANGED THE SOUND OF THE MUSIC I AM WORKING ON IN A WONDERFUL WAY !!


l

[doogie]

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

You need numbers?

Break out the DYMO labeler and stick some on there.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

I have a sticker on the front of my Cranesong HEDD. The BYPASS switch is labeled IN/OUT. But when the BYPASS switch is IN, then the unit is processing. When the BYPASS function is OUT, then the unit is actually bypassed. See, it's a PROCESS switch. When you want the HEDD processing in, you put the switch to the IN position. So I covered up the BYPASS lettering with a label that says PROCESS. I just got tired of having to think about it every time I flipped the switch.

But God bless Dave Hill. He can call those switches whatever he wants as long as he keeps making them sound so good.

well said Lynn

[StuartMac]

Ivo, try this on the Ibis - it makes good use of the note names; establish the key of the track you're mixing and then try tweaking the eq a fifth (or a third may work too) above it on a couple of bands. In conjunction with the colour control this can work really well - especially on acoustic based stuff.

Yes, you COULD work that out with just the frequencies labelled on any other EQ, but the Ibis makes it very easy.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

So I got the Ibis this morning and played with it a bit ...

Well - the first thing: the way of controlling it, is quite horrible for me ! :-)) all those messy tones with some occassional numbers in between ... That´s really a mess ! As some cast-away, I search for at least one frequency which is somewhere there (difficult to find) and just guess what is between it and the next.
This sounds really a bit excentric to me (kind of forced, artificial originality) ... and as probably everybody else I would like to have normal frequencies there, as a standard marking for the last few decades). There is no advantage in this type of labelling, just to add a small suffering to the user I feel ... +1 step button makes it even more confusing ...
?

Actually you'll get used pretty soon.
I never look exactly on frequencies, so it doesn't matter what is written around knobs (it could be dogs, birds, cats, mices), but on first sight it is strange, I agree.
I think it's part of Dave Hill's design philosophy, as good things are never just common in all senses.
If you need EQ with perfect order of buttons, all detented knobs, hard bypass on each band etc. you can have SPL's Qure for half or less.
But you'll not get IBIS sound and that's only what counts here (well Qure has other merits).
More than for sure you'll be very satisfied with this EQ (from all excellent Crane Song's gears this one is my favorite)

[doogie]

Originally Posted by GYang

Actually you'll get used pretty soon.
I never look exactly on frequencies, so it doesn't matter what is written around knobs (it could be dogs, birds, cats, mices), but on first sight it is strange, I agree.
I think it's part of Dave Hill's design philosophy, as good things are never just common in all senses.
If you need EQ with perfect order of buttons, all detented knobs, hard bypass on each band etc. you can have SPL's Qure for half or less.
But you'll not get IBIS sound and that's only what counts here (well Qure has other merits).
More than for sure you'll be very satisfied with this EQ (from all excellent Crane Song's gears this one is my favorite)

All there stuff rocks IMHO

[ISedlacek]

I have to say it again (after spending more time with it) - it sounds absolutely fantastic ! Makes everything sounding better and more musical ... I will not give it back ...

The colour button when used in moderate quantity is stunning too ...

I think in 2-3 days I will (gladly) get used to that special control management :-))

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Yes, but if you play normal music with all the tones present - which one would you emphasise ? But yes, there is a local proverb - "in the end one will get used even to a gallow-tree"

I like the gallows tree line...

as to which you emphasize... think of it in terms of layers.... you could have one layer of GTRs emphasizing the root, another (different sound) emphasizing the 5th, another... etc etc... its an interesting interface for EQ that I'm sure takes getting used to... is it better? maybe in a few years we'll know.

my take on the IBIS is that it seems to be more of a mix EQ than a mastering EQ.. at least the way the controls are setup...

[rwhitney]

I know this is obvious, but one could do the same on other eqs by remembering, or making a chart of, frequency/pitch correlations. I think it's a cool approach sometimes. I haven't used the Ibis, but I do have a frequency/pitch chart on the wall to consult. I use it all the time for one purpose or another.

BTW, it's the chart that comes with Bob Katz' Mastering Audio, "Musical Pitch Relation Chart". Thanks, Bob, for being clever and thorough!

[murp]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but why even look at the unit while you're tweaking?

Personally, I only ever adjust knobs with my eyes closed, or looking somewhere else, then when I've got it sounding how I want it to sound, I will look at where the knobs are - and if I've added 12db @ 60hz, so be it.

[Remoteness]

I'm with you Matt...

I twist the knobs until it's right and only look at the frequency when someone asks me what frequency we pulled or added.

[ISedlacek]

Well, after today s real mastering session, I have to say the popular sentence:

someone would have to pry the Ibis from my dead cold hands

It sounds truly amazing - even with zero settings it already makes the things sounding better. And with a little EQ and tiny bit colour - wow !

We tried to do the same settings on the best available plugins - it was really like night and day ... A real beatiful natural sound vs. thin, hardworking processed plugin sound ...

A real blessing for my music ...
Thank you, Mr.Hill ...

[Rep]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Well, after today s real mastering session, I have to say the popular sentence:

someone would have to pry the Ibis from my dead cold hands

It sounds truly amazing - even with zero settings it already makes the things sounding better. And with a little EQ and tiny bit colour - wow !

We tried to do the same settings on the best available plugins - it was really like night and day ... A real beatiful natural sound vs. thin, hardworking processed plugin sound ...

A real blessing for my music ...
Thank you, Mr.Hill ...

Man..... Why o why. do I even look at these high end units...
LOOK ... I just got a crap load of Germs,
Would you stop it with this already ,
your are Making me want to do really BAD things to My Money Account

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Rep

Man..... Why o why. do I even look at these high end units...
LOOK ... I just got a crap load of Germs,
Would you stop it with this already ,
your are Making me want to do really BAD things to My Money Account

That's sickness.
But each time when I hear amazing sounds from my instruments and gears I don't regret for a second all that money spent.
From the other hand, sometimes I try to make project with really minimalistic setup and despite more-less good results, turning on full-fledged setup MAKES MY SMILE BIG
I love digital editing and partially processing, but what differs my work from any other boy's work in town with 3 k PC and bunch of cracked software is analogue processing and smell of analogue gears in control room.
And whoever talk about distortion, artefacts and subtle differences that analogue do to producing music didn't have real chance to try it and work some time.
IBIS is one perfect example of that philosophy.

[garbarek]

This is a terrific thread, folks..

[CrazyBeast]

I've had the same experience with this box (and somewhere I posted a thread and samples quite a while back) - initially some qualms with the lack of linking, no detent, notes.... but, after using it for a little while that all goes out the window!

Turn the knobs and it sounds great. It blows peoples minds to hear a mix going through it and how you can completely re-sculpt it.

Also, it's worth noting that there is a small dead zone to each side of 0 on the gain knob - so even though it's not detented, as long as you're within .25 db or so on either side - it's actually at 0!

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by CrazyBeast

I've had the same experience with this box (and somewhere I posted a thread and samples quite a while back) - initially some qualms with the lack of linking, no detent, notes.... but, after using it for a little while that all goes out the window!

Well ... yes ... exactly

Do you also feel it slightly widens the depth and stereo image ?

Anyone can share some experience and tips for using the "colour" function ? Where do you feel it works the best ? If put on maximum, some audible distortion comes. Around 2-3 steps, it sounds very nice ... So far tried only full mode ... Using it just on a selected band is an interesting option, but have not tried so far ...

[MASSIVE Master]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

someone would have to pry the Ibis from my dead cold hands

That's about what I thought too. The 8200 went on the block a few months later (nothing particular against it, but it was just collecting dust there).

And the color control... I don't use it an awful lot, but it's pretty cool when you need something unique.

Pissed me off once when I didn't zero it out once though...