RND Master Buss Processor- My little ramble

[TheScientist]

Ok, so my RND MBP turned up a few days ago and I thought I would post a little thread to share my thoughts.

I originally demoed the portico 2 channel, I loved the thing, but as I have an original SSL E channel and an UA 6167 I was struggling to justify the expense on another pre, I tend to rely on itb EQ and a lot of outboard compressors. (165A, 166, 160X, Dynamite, LA4, Sta Level, SSL Buss Comp, SSL E Comp, 1176) that being said I do use the EQ on my E channel a lot. The one thing that stood out on the Portico 2 Channel strip was the compressor. Don't get me wrong the EQ is fantastic, and I will hopefully get a Portico 2 channel next year.
So I did a little research and found that there was a Stereo unit coming out with the RND portico 2 compressor, the MBP.
So far it has not disappointed, I know it is technically a mastering unit, but it kills in the mix. The compressor reminds me of the API 2500 with its versatility, Peak/RMS FF FB and so on.
So this unit for those who dont know. You have two stereo linkable compressors, with feed forward or feed back, rms or peak detection (however the peak is kind of an rms and peak together type detection, supposedly has the best of both worlds), the RND Silk Blue and Silk Red and a one knob limiter with intelligent release.
Also there is the RND Stereo Field Editor, which gives you the option to boost or cut both the mid information and the side information, and EQ can also be applied to both individually to boost or cut low, low mid, high mid or high mid or side information. The stereo field editor can be fed in to the two compressors, so you can compress mid and side information separately.
I have used it across the main mix and it does what you would expect, slow attack and release in RMS and FB with low ratio and you get glue. Not just glue but a great big sound too, I am guessing the Neve transformers are playing a big role in this. The limiter is surprisingly good. Unless you abuse it you don't really hear it, I have only been using it to shave off 6db at the most, and the mix still sounds punchy and there is almost no loss on the low end. It would be nice to have a release control, but the intelligent release seems to know what you want when it comes to using the limiter just as a limiter.
The Stereo field editor in mastering is fun, I can see it being very useful when fixing other peoples mixes, but for my own "mastering" needs I don't think I will reach for it that much. That being said adding a little low end centre and a bit of width on the mids or high mids did work nicely on a mix I did the other day. But it was a tiny amount and I don't think it would have been an issue to not have it.
Right, so this baby in the mix. Love it Love it. I used it on a piano that was playing a very important role in one of my productions. I was able to get it to sit perfectly, I used a mid to fast attack with mid to slow release with RMS and FB. Quite a high ratio but also a high threshold, so using it to tame the louder and not having too much effect on the quieter. I also set the limiter above the threshold to capture any really hard playing (the player is one of the most used and best session players in the UK, and has an amazing feel and a lot of dynamic to his playing). This compressor does not bottle neck, even when the limiter was kicking in the piano felt so natural. I was able to get the piano nicely in front but with enough control to not tread on the vocal (the vocal was running through my Sta level with about 15db gain reduction at max).
In the mix the stereo field editor is great, I added some low mid on the centre and added some width without eq. The piano felt big but not too floaty, it still felt grounded and solid in the mix.
I have also used this across the drum buss, slow attack, fast release, peak and FF. It's great, I kept the limiter out and slammed the compressor.
Really liked what it did, grabs when it should, but lets go fast enough to allow the air.
Silk is good, this unit is super clean, so being able to dial in some dirt is always welcome.
I would post some audio clips, but this project is being kept under wraps. So when I can shout about it I will.
All in all I really like this unit. There are a few draw backs, the make up gain is post comp and pre limit, I would have liked another post limit gain stage to make things smoother in operation although I guess Rupert was trying to keep the signal path as clean as possible. And you can just increase the make up gain and balance the limiter so get the output and amount of limit you want.
It also seems if you power on with the Stereo Link engaged the gain reduction meter for the right channel doesn't power on. I have to play with this a little more to see what is happening.
Also if you are using silk you have to set both channels to match before you engage stereo link. I am assuming that is you then wish to change the silk settings you need to drop it back out of stereo link to do so. Again I need to play with this a little more to get it all figured out.
But these are all very small negatives on a great well built fantastic sounding piece of gear.
There you go, a little ramble on the RND MBP.

[Leonardo_007]

Originally Posted by TheScientist

Ok, so my RND MBP turned up a few days ago and I thought I would post a little thread to share my thoughts.

I originally demoed the portico 2 channel, I loved the thing, but as I have an original SSL E channel and an UA 6167 I was struggling to justify the expense on another pre, I tend to rely on itb EQ and a lot of outboard compressors. (165A, 166, 160X, Dynamite, LA4, Sta Level, SSL Buss Comp, SSL E Comp, 1176) that being said I do use the EQ on my E channel a lot. The one thing that stood out on the Portico 2 Channel strip was the compressor. Don't get me wrong the EQ is fantastic, and I will hopefully get a Portico 2 channel next year.
So I did a little research and found that there was a Stereo unit coming out with the RND portico 2 compressor, the MBP.
So far it has not disappointed, I know it is technically a mastering unit, but it kills in the mix. The compressor reminds me of the API 2500 with its versatility, Peak/RMS FF FB and so on.
So this unit for those who dont know. You have two stereo linkable compressors, with feed forward or feed back, rms or peak detection (however the peak is kind of an rms and peak together type detection, supposedly has the best of both worlds), the RND Silk Blue and Silk Red and a one knob limiter with intelligent release.
Also there is the RND Stereo Field Editor, which gives you the option to boost or cut both the mid information and the side information, and EQ can also be applied to both individually to boost or cut low, low mid, high mid or high mid or side information. The stereo field editor can be fed in to the two compressors, so you can compress mid and side information separately.
I have used it across the main mix and it does what you would expect, slow attack and release in RMS and FB with low ratio and you get glue. Not just glue but a great big sound too, I am guessing the Neve transformers are playing a big role in this. The limiter is surprisingly good. Unless you abuse it you don't really hear it, I have only been using it to shave off 6db at the most, and the mix still sounds punchy and there is almost no loss on the low end. It would be nice to have a release control, but the intelligent release seems to know what you want when it comes to using the limiter just as a limiter.
The Stereo field editor in mastering is fun, I can see it being very useful when fixing other peoples mixes, but for my own "mastering" needs I don't think I will reach for it that much. That being said adding a little low end centre and a bit of width on the mids or high mids did work nicely on a mix I did the other day. But it was a tiny amount and I don't think it would have been an issue to not have it.
Right, so this baby in the mix. Love it Love it. I used it on a piano that was playing a very important role in one of my productions. I was able to get it to sit perfectly, I used a mid to fast attack with mid to slow release with RMS and FB. Quite a high ratio but also a high threshold, so using it to tame the louder and not having too much effect on the quieter. I also set the limiter above the threshold to capture any really hard playing (the player is one of the most used and best session players in the UK, and has an amazing feel and a lot of dynamic to his playing). This compressor does not bottle neck, even when the limiter was kicking in the piano felt so natural. I was able to get the piano nicely in front but with enough control to not tread on the vocal (the vocal was running through my Sta level with about 15db gain reduction at max).
In the mix the stereo field editor is great, I added some low mid on the centre and added some width without eq. The piano felt big but not too floaty, it still felt grounded and solid in the mix.
I have also used this across the drum buss, slow attack, fast release, peak and FF. It's great, I kept the limiter out and slammed the compressor.
Really liked what it did, grabs when it should, but lets go fast enough to allow the air.
Silk is good, this unit is super clean, so being able to dial in some dirt is always welcome.
I would post some audio clips, but this project is being kept under wraps. So when I can shout about it I will.
All in all I really like this unit. There are a few draw backs, the make up gain is post comp and pre limit, I would have liked another post limit gain stage to make things smoother in operation although I guess Rupert was trying to keep the signal path as clean as possible. And you can just increase the make up gain and balance the limiter so get the output and amount of limit you want.
It also seems if you power on with the Stereo Link engaged the gain reduction meter for the right channel doesn't power on. I have to play with this a little more to see what is happening.
Also if you are using silk you have to set both channels to match before you engage stereo link. I am assuming that is you then wish to change the silk settings you need to drop it back out of stereo link to do so. Again I need to play with this a little more to get it all figured out.
But these are all very small negatives on a great well built fantastic sounding piece of gear.
There you go, a little ramble on the RND MBP.

thanks for your post.

Greg Wells already did a review on the RND 5043 so it has sufficiently been covered

[TheScientist]

The portico 2 MBP is kinda different from the 5042.

[Leonardo_007]

Originally Posted by TheScientist

The portico 2 MBP is kinda different from the 5042.

i guess you meant the 5043 as the 5042 is the tape emulator.

in which way is it different?

[TheScientist]

Yer sorry typo.

Totally different.

The MBP is a mastering compressor. It has Peak and RMS, a higher voltage on the rails, a seperate limiter circuit, plus it has a stereo field editor in the same unit. I am not 100% on the total difference, but the RND is twice the price and twice the size. I don't think it was intended to replace the 5043. They are two different machines.

[TheScientist]

Rupert Neve Designs – Portico II – Master Buss Processor

[Leonardo_007]

oh yeah, sorry for that...

my mistake.

[TheScientist]

It's all good.

[jimmyboy7]

This thread may also be ofinterest

******//www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...ml#post7222574

[TheScientist]

Jimmy,

Have you noticed powering on in stereo link mode is a bit odd. Mine seems to only meter on channel one GR when I do this, but if I drop it out of stereo link and back in it functions as it should.
All in all I am loving this. Been strapping it across everything!

[Plush]

Thank you Scientist for this great introduction to the box. You have helped me here for sure.

This week the new Neve box serial #8 came in to our room. I am using it to finish out a record here. I am experimenting and learning its capabilities as you are.

A fantastic unit, basically inaudible when adjusted properly, and adding a MAJOR glue / smoothing / finishing effect here.

More experimenting and learning will continue for a while before pressing it in to service on a final mix.

I will check your "stereo link" issue and report back.

with appreciation for your good post,

Pllushhhhh-Phonic.

[jimmyboy7]

Originally Posted by TheScientist

Jimmy,

Have you noticed powering on in stereo link mode is a bit odd. Mine seems to only meter on channel one GR when I do this, but if I drop it out of stereo link and back in it functions as it should.
All in all I am loving this. Been strapping it across everything!

Let me check and get back to you

[YOHAMI]

Can anyone say this thing stinks?

My wallet is hating you all.

[jimmyboy7]

Originally Posted by TheScientist

Jimmy,

Have you noticed powering on in stereo link mode is a bit odd. Mine seems to only meter on channel one GR when I do this, but if I drop it out of stereo link and back in it functions as it should.
All in all I am loving this. Been strapping it across everything!

I didn't notice this happenning, howeverm there may be other factors like the SFE to comp seeting. Maybe it would help if you can list the exact settings on everything. I will duplicate and confirm. So far though, I have not had the same issues.

[jimmyboy7]

Originally Posted by YOHAMI

Can anyone say this thing stinks?

My wallet is hating you all.

First question... NO, unless they are deaf or ignorant. If you meet someone who says this unit stinks...slap them for me


Sorry about the wallet, I would put it on the must have list for sure though

[Greg B]

I've been going through different mastering compressors (STC-8, Manley Vari-Mu, etc.) for the last 8 years looking for "the one". For what I've heard so far from the Portico II Master Buss, it's been years since I was this excited about a piece of gear. Added that and some BURL AD and DA this year, and my mastering chain finally seems complete....for now...

[jimmyboy7]

Originally Posted by Greg B

I've been going through different mastering compressors (STC-8, Manley Vari-Mu, etc.) for the last 8 years looking for "the one". For what I've heard so far from the Portico II Master Buss, it's been years since I was this excited about a piece of gear. Added that and some BURL AD and DA this year, and my mastering chain finally seems complete....for now...

Classic!!!

[erikdrink]

Nice post!

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by jimmyboy7

Classic!!!

Keep in mind I'm not saying the Master Buss Compressor is "the one" because no piece of gear is "the best" and I didn't say or imply that, but I owned the STC-8 for 4 years, the Vari-Mu for one year, the ELi Fatso Jr. for 8 years (all of them wonderful and useful) for Buss compression, and I'm saying I just added the Master Buss a couple weeks ago and I'm impressed with how much it can do well. Particularly the onboard spacial editing in addition to the compressing/limiting, which is something I've been wanting to use more in the analog domain when mastering rather than digitally in Sequoia.

[Musiclab]

I know Scott Hull and Randy Merrill at Masterdisk both got them and like them.

[jimmyboy7]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Keep in mind I'm not saying the Master Buss Compressor is "the one" because no piece of gear is "the best" and I didn't say or imply that, but I owned the STC-8 for 4 years, the Vari-Mu for one year, the ELi Fatso Jr. for 8 years (all of them wonderful and useful) for Buss compression, and I'm saying I just added the Master Buss a couple weeks ago and I'm impressed with how much it can do well. Particularly the onboard spacial editing in addition to the compressing/limiting, which is something I've been wanting to use more in the analog domain when mastering rather than digitally in Sequoia.

I am in the same camp, I think that by adding a Bax EQ I will be able to
finish things up nicely

But I still may want an API 2500 for the drum buss

[klaukholm]

Plush, how do you like the unit now?
Did you end up buying it?

we have a demo coming in two weeks and I am curious if you have any further thoughts on the unit that you would care to share with us

[Sounderground]

I’ve been using the mbp for a month now. Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to go for extreme settings and/or really dig into the colours of this unit. I have clients waiting for mixes so I have been forced to go safe. But, this thing is doing wonders even at modest settings. The compression is just a small part of the picture, which I am just about to explore, but there is also the limiter, texture, and stereo field editing that gives me a VERY effective tool to tune in the mixes. So far so good, a lot better and faster than any in-the-box-solution I’ve been using, and I’m looking forward to get to know this unit better.

[Tube World]

In having the Portico 5012 pre and 5043 comp, I wondered if I ran my 2 bus through the pre, hit the silk button and then went into the comp if it would get me a little closer to the Master Buss Prcoessor with silk button?

I have not needed Stereo Field work as much on my own mixes either, but I agree it would be helpful to use on other mixes done by others.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Plush, how do you like the unit now?
Did you end up buying it?

we have a demo coming in two weeks and I am curious if you have any further thoughts on the unit that you would care to share with us

Box is very useful and quite incredible. Yes we did buy it.
Totally different from any other equipment I have heard, this buss compressor runs at 70 volts power rail. It is so euphonic, so smooth and with limitless headroom.

The compression it offers is now essential. Not only for program material destined for radio broadcast but for dynamic range control in cd releases.
The ability to raise the level overall or to choose to use the unit differently--- using it to bring up low level detail is quite amazing.

I have other boxes that do this digitally, but RND do it with a super refined and elegant sounding analog design. This analog design is superior to all else I have heard.

So experiment away and don't miss the wonderful width action available as icing on the cake.

[RKrizman]

Hudson, I'm sort of hating the fact that you love this thing.

Don't tell my wife.

-R

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Plush

A fantastic unit, basically inaudible when adjusted properly, and adding a MAJOR glue / smoothing / finishing effect here.

Can you clarify what that means? I'm trying to wrap my brain around the idea of something being inaudible but having a MAJOR smoothing/gluing effect, but I'm not getting it.

I'm not doubting the veracity of your words, I'm just trying to understand them.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[Plush]

Hello UBK,

What I meant to say was that the main function of the box, buss compression, is inaudible. It doesn't give it self away with pumping, ducking sounds and you can't hear it "working."

Then in a more global sense, I come back and say that it has a smoothing and gluing effect.

I should have separated these in to separate sentences. One is a specific comment and the other a general comment.

I am an endorser of RND equipment.

[u b k]

Understood, got it. Reminds me of the way I hear (or, rather, don't hear) the Atomic Squeezebox. Subtle tonal shift, no compression artifacts, serious gain reduction.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[jayfield]

Placed my order today--there a little backlogged---will send impressions when in my studio. whoo-hoo!