Ns10's or not

[DR Music]

Originally Posted by jcc449

That's not what i am saying.
I state that every speaker has a "favor" range for power. (120 Watts max, 120X2= 240 Watts sum of both channel, means you will be fine from P2500-P3500)
Of course you don't want to go for "mini-power", but if you power way more above speaker's max, you are gonna blow the speakers as well.

And do you know why?
It all has to do with the Coils in the speakers.
The Coils of a specific speaker needs a specific amount of current/voltage combination to work properly. It's a simple math and nothing magical.
Some believe by "Overdrive" a coil can get that 100% bandwidth out of that speaker. I think that only somehow "makeup" a bit. But if you overdo it, then better be ready to buy a new tweeters+woofers.

(p.s. i am 100% sure a 1000 Watts Amp will destroy an NS10M 10 out of 10. No matter how good that amp is. What's totally wrong here? I have using NS10M for 4,5 years and never blow them once. But i know a lot of guys keep blaming NS10 for blowing just because they have no idea why they shouldn't power NS10M with some crazy 800+ Watts Amp. Once again, many of them never read the manual before usage.)

I think most NS10 users understand the concept and are aware of the power ratings.
But if anyone did not, there it is!

[lulumusique]

It all has to do with the Coils in the speakers.
The Coils of a specific speaker needs a specific amount of current/voltage combination to work properly. It's a simple math and nothing magical.
Some believe by "Overdrive" a coil can get that 100% bandwidth out of that speaker. I think that only somehow "makeup" a bit. But if you overdo it, then better be ready to buy a new tweeters+woofers.

I totaly agree with that, but I never said that you should send more that what the maximum power rating says. A 120W amp can deliver up to 120W on its output (under certain cironstances), that's all it means... it doesn't mean you can't ask it to deliver less power. Of course if you try to send 1000W to the ns10 they will blow up.

[jcc449]

By all I mean I didn't come out 1000 watts from no where.
There was a studio who try to power ns10M with 1000 watts amp and they report they heard some "sub" bass from ns10m. And I heard that only last for 30 seconds and the speakers were gone. But that's not my experience. My experience (with a 5.1 JBL) was that speakers will be very muted volume while dying out.

[Studio507]

If you try to send the full volume output from a 1000w amp into a pair of NS10s and they don't die, you will, from blood loss from the ears. Some NS10s are rated at 50w peak btw, before they upgraded the tweeters.

Overpowering is still the way to go though, but yea, you don't have to get too crazy with it.

[jcc449]

Originally Posted by Studio507

If you try to send the full volume output from a 1000w amp into a pair of NS10s and they don't die, you will, from blood loss from the ears. Some NS10s are rated at 50w peak btw, before they upgraded the tweeters.

Overpowering is still the way to go though, but yea, you don't have to get too crazy with it.

You go do it with your ns10M and remember to video cam the progress and post it on the YouTube. Just by turn on the amp the sudden surge should be enough to kill it.

[TRJanuary]

Originally Posted by jcc449

(p.s. i am 100% sure a 1000 Watts Amp will destroy an NS10M 10 out of 10. No matter how good that amp is. What's totally wrong here? I have using NS10M for 4,5 years and never blow them once. But i know a lot of guys keep blaming NS10 for blowing just because they have no idea why they shouldn't power NS10M with some crazy 800+ Watts Amp. Once again, many of them never read the manual before usage.)

True story:
For years, we ran our NS-10's with a Yamaha PC5002M. 500W per channel. (1000 W total of course.) Sounded excellent. No damage. Hit records made with this setup. (a #2 and #5 on billboard chart). Many engineers commented that it was the best they ever heard NS-10s sound. NS-10s LOVE to be "overpowered".

So there it is.

[jcc449]

Originally Posted by TRJanuary

True story:
#2 and #5 on billboard chart). Many engineers commented that it was the best they ever heard NS-10s sound. NS-10s LOVE to be "overpowered".
So there it is.

Sure, guess you might know Ns10m more than Nakamura. you could rewrite the manual for Yamaha and also email a copy for Nakamura and teach them this

[DAH]

Originally Posted by jcc449

Sure, guess you might know Ns10m more than Nakamura. you could rewrite the manual for Yamaha and also email a copy for Nakamura and teach them this

Are you not space2012?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by DAH

Are you not space2012?

lol....class. I don't think he is though.......

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by jcc449

Sure, guess you might know Ns10m more than Nakamura. you could rewrite the manual for Yamaha and also email a copy for Nakamura and teach them this

No need for anyone to rewrite any manuals for Nakamura or anyone else.

Speaker system specs give maximum power ratings for a couple of reasons - 1) to provide parameters within which the warranty will operate and 2) as an indicator of the practical SPL range you can reasonably expect from the speaker. They do NOT attempt to dictate duty cycle ratings or operational limits for other components of the system.

The NS10 specs tell you (given the power and efficiency ratings) that you can expect up to around 110dB SPL before distortion, FR or heat levels will move beyond acceptable (and/or rated) levels. Anyone seriously contemplating monitoring their mixes on NS10s at levels well above 100dB has other problems to worry about than blown drivers!

Meanwhile, FYI, it's customary in Pro Audio to couple speakers - including NS10s - with overspec'd amplifiers so as to ensure the amp will be operating well below its rated power at all times while producing appropriate monitoring levels. Doing this reduces the stress on both the amp and the speaker drivers, while improving the accuracy and performance of both. This practice is so common (and so grounded in basic common sense) that I wonder what rock you could possibly have been hiding under that you haven't encountered it, and are getting all in a lather here about the need to rewrite manuals etc!

[DR Music]

Dark Sky is 100% on the money!!!!

[gideon352]

Originally Posted by DarkSky Media

No need for anyone to rewrite any manuals for Nakamura or anyone else.

Speaker system specs give maximum power ratings for a couple of reasons - 1) to provide parameters within which the warranty will operate and 2) as an indicator of the practical SPL range you can reasonably expect from the speaker. They do NOT attempt to dictate duty cycle ratings or operational limits for other components of the system.

The NS10 specs tell you (given the power and efficiency ratings) that you can expect up to around 110dB SPL before distortion, FR or heat levels will move beyond acceptable (and/or rated) levels. Anyone seriously contemplating monitoring their mixes on NS10s at levels well above 100dB has other problems to worry about than blown drivers!

Meanwhile, FYI, it's customary in Pro Audio to couple speakers - including NS10s - with overspec'd amplifiers so as to ensure the amp will be operating well below its rated power at all times while producing appropriate monitoring levels. Doing this reduces the stress on both the amp and the speaker drivers, while improving the accuracy and performance of both. This practice is so common (and so grounded in basic common sense) that I wonder what rock you could possibly have been hiding under that you haven't encountered it, and are getting all in a lather here about the need to rewrite manuals etc!

Yes.

You just have to know how to drive the speakers.
I have heard them being driven to the point of audibly distorting.
I does not sound good to me....

[Studio507]

Originally Posted by DR Music

Dark Sky is 100% on the money!!!!

Yup. It's pretty common practice, even in consumer systems to overpower your speakers.

[jcc449]

Yamaha NS10 was designed to work with Yamaha P2201/2200 back in 1980s. And tons of classic mixing engineers had mix world's top 1 selling record with P2201 + NS10M. I can name you one very famous still running P2201 with NS10- Bob Katz. How much power does P2201 deliver ? The answer is 200 watts @ 8 ohms each channel.

[DR Music]

Originally Posted by jcc449

Yamaha NS10 was designed to work with Yamaha P2201/2200 back in 1980s. And tons of classic mixing engineers had mix world's top 1 selling record with P2201 + NS10M. I can name you one very famous still running P2201 with NS10- Bob Katz. How much power does P2201 deliver ? The answer is 200 watts @ 8 ohms each channel.

Yes! Sir!
Exactly why I chose the ART SLA2 200W @ 8ohms...
Most highly recommended Amps are 150-225W @ 8ohms in including the P2201.

[gideon352]

Yeah, I believe Bob Clearmountain uses the Yamaha P-2700 and the Yamaha P-3200.

[DR Music]

I've been using the NS-10's for about 3 months. Love what they do for me. It took a little while to get used to but well worth it! I use a ART SLA2 Power Amp GREAT COMBO!!
THANKs slutz!!

[K. Osborne]

Ive been using this huge ugly Crown DC300 amp with my NS10s. Seems to work great - only tried a few other amps though. Never saw the point in getting a Bryston or something - at least for my taste (and wallet). I've made plenty of mixes just fine on this setup. My 2 cents!

[Pepesonica]

I have Genelec 8050 at my studio along with a paiir of NS10's. There are 2 other engineers working with me. They both hate the NS10's but I will not let go a mix until check it on the Yamahas.

[DR Music]

Originally Posted by Pepesonica

I have Genelec 8050 at my studio along with a paiir of NS10's. There are 2 other engineers working with me. They both hate the NS10's but I will not let go a mix until check it on the Yamahas.

Same here!!!
I mix on them 50% of the time..

[Capstan Cappy]

there was a good article on why the NS10"s were so loved and what made them tick, has to do with the waterfallplot, it has certain properties that good sounding cabinets of large systems have , a total accident, put them against a wall and suddenly they sound pretty good, its a balance checker not an accurate , ..aaaah thats what my guitar sounds like for real monitor......i havet hem but i dont use them, get a pair of monitors wich you can work well with and get to know them, pair of normal hifi peakers to check your mixes and be done with it
anbtw the yamaha P2200 is rated 250wats 8 ohm, best design beats the bryston 4bst wich is based on the yamaha anyway, recap it and you"ll have the best amp in the 200 watt range ever build usable for monitoring purposes..

[DR Music]

Originally Posted by Capstan Cappy

there was a good article on why the NS10"s were so loved and what made them tick, has to do with the waterfallplot, it has certain properties that good sounding cabinets of large systems have , a total accident, put them against a wall and suddenly they sound pretty good, its a balance checker not an accurate , ..aaaah thats what my guitar sounds like for real monitor......i havet hem but i dont use them, get a pair of monitors wich you can work well with and get to know them, pair of normal hifi peakers to check your mixes and be done with it
anbtw the yamaha P2200 is rated 250wats 8 ohm, best design beats the bryston 4bst wich is based on the yamaha anyway, recap it and you"ll have the best amp in the 200 watt range ever build usable for monitoring purposes..

Understandable but a sealed design is what "I" prefer...
Maybe I'll get some Avatones soon. See which ones I prefer.
I've read a few books on mixing and sealed is recommended, crazy, hardly anyone makes sealed monitors. There is a few but they are Thousands!!!

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by DR Music

Understandable but a sealed design is what "I" prefer...
Maybe I'll get some Avatones soon. See which ones I prefer.
I've read a few books on mixing and sealed is recommended, crazy, hardly anyone makes sealed monitors. There is a few but they are Thousands!!!

Rather liking a pair of NHT SuperOne's just now.....sealed, dirt cheap, and pretty damned sweet with a good amp. About to put a Hypex up 'em when my faulty UcD module comes back...looking forward to that.....

[Tom Hakala]

I just bought a pair of NS 044 from ebay. Are those close to NS10 except for the tweeters? Does anyone here even know NS044?

[DR Music]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Rather liking a pair of NHT SuperOne's just now.....sealed, dirt cheap, and pretty damned sweet with a good amp. About to put a Hypex up 'em when my faulty UcD module comes back...looking forward to that.....

Very interesting...

[Barrios]

They are crap! but if you can make your mix sound god on them them, your mix will probably sound god in other systems! I dont think many engeneers use them to do the hole mix on, but use them as a referens in the end!
thats the hole thing about them!

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Barrios

They are crap! but if you can make your mix sound god on them them, your mix will probably sound god in other systems! I dont think many engeneers use them to do the hole mix on, but use them as a referens in the end!
thats the hole thing about them!

You think wrong my friend. I think you'll find that IF someone uses them at all, the much greater likelyhood is they do 90% of everything on them and THEN check the shape of overall things quickly (now and again) on something more full range, not the other way round. Also, just to make things 'sound good' on them is not going to be of use, as in order to make it transferable and sound good elsewhere you need to make it sound quite spiky and harsh on them, in a particular shape that you have to learn. If you just try to make it sound like you would on a full range monitor (try being the operative word as you'll struggle...) it will sound dull and awkward elsewhere......you have to learn these speakers.

[DR Music]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

You think wrong my friend. I think you'll find that IF someone uses them at all, the much greater likelyhood is they do 90% of everything on them and THEN check the shape of overall things quickly (now and again) on something more full range, not the other way round. Also, just to make things 'sound good' on them is not going to be of use, as in order to make it transferable and sound good elsewhere you need to make it sound quite spiky and harsh on them, in a particular shape that you have to learn. If you just try to make it sound like you would on a full range monitor (try being the operative word as you'll struggle...) it will sound dull and awkward elsewhere......you have to learn these speakers.

+10
It's 89% of the time or me...
That how I find myself mixing on them.
I usually use a reference from another mix and see how the reference song sounds on them.