How will you guys mic this guitar cab?

[alternative4]

just got a new 4x12 cabinet and did some trackings with different mic placement.
I took the grill cloth off and saw the center of each speakers are blocked by its cab design.
so, is it not able to record it on axis? do you guys have experience with this?

[RiF]

I put the mic at the edge between the cone and the dustcap anyways (angled towards the center or just straight) , so no problem with this cab.

[Pred80r]

But nothing a hole or jig saw couldn't fix...*EG*

Truthfully though angling a mic towards center should be good enough, just be sure not to touch the cabinet with the mic or stand.

[ProfessorNick]

I agree. Aim the mic toward the center. If the guitar sounds good coming out of the cabinet then the design is no problem.

[Doc Mixwell]

Get a pair of cans going out there, and setup the mic preamp to a nominal level, and simply move the microphone around the speaker while you listen on cans [this may require an assistant for either task]. You should find a nice sweet spot for the sound your looking for, or maybe swap other stuff to find the right sound. At least, that's what I do usually.

[Jim Williams]

Them cans would need to be ear bleeding loud for that to work. Best to have an "assistant" move mics while you listen in isolation.

For me, I would have to listen to that cab/speaker combo first. Guitar speakers are all over the map. If it didn't sound great alone, I would be swapping cabs quickly here.

I usually don't close mic speaker cones here. The reasons are obvious, the tone shifts from center to edge on the speaker cone, proximity effect clouds the low mids, the actual sound you hear doesn't come together until about a foot or so back from the speaker. That's where I start with mic placements.

Worked for Hendrix, worked for Stevie Ray, works for me too.

[Doc Mixwell]

Yea....real ear bleeders.....

That is Silliness....

[lpkyer]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I usually don't close mic speaker cones here. The reasons are obvious, the tone shifts from center to edge on the speaker cone, proximity effect clouds the low mids, the actual sound you hear doesn't come together until about a foot or so back from the speaker. That's where I start with mic placements.

Worked for Hendrix, worked for Stevie Ray, works for me too.

The theory is excellent, but I always find I miss low end from proximity effect when miking in such fashion. What mic will you use in that application?

[PaulMac]

Guitar > tube DI > Avid Eleven.
haha.

I think you should get someone to move the mic around for you until it "hits the spot" for you in the control room. On first impressions I'd just try halfway between the edge and centre of one of the cones.

[Ward Pike]

What we are seeing in front of each speaker is known as a "beam blocker".

This was commonly used on UK combo amplifiers and speaker enclosures from the last 1950s until about 1972, in the case of Vox amplifiers and is an essential component to the sound. A "beam blocker" will diffuse the highmid and high end very quickly, evenly and efficiently... yielding a much more pleasant sound.

To mic this. Aim the microphone where the X is. 1' (30 cm) from the speaker, minimum, and about 3" from the left hand edge of the cone.

___
/ \
| X |
\ /
––––

Microphone choice is also very important. Ribbon, like a Royer121 is mild/natural, MD421 for presence and punch, U87 for hyped, SM57 for gunk.

Good luck, please don't destroy the beam blocker. You could also try a Digi 11 like another caller previously mentioned.

[Snap]

but I always find I miss low end from proximity effect when miking in such fashion.

Sure, and that's a good thing. If you want more low end get some more from the amp. It will sound way more natural. And if you still need some more, use a good Eq. Something you can control when boosting better than dealing with an imposed non controllable fixed shelving bump clogging the low mid range.

Mics? Anything good of your choice. I prefer to use flat response mics and getting the actual sound of the amp. If the amp sounds good you cannot go wrong with this approach. If you want to "create" a sound that the amp is not delivering, then it's different matter.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

Yea....real ear bleeders.....

That is Silliness....

Which is it, going out with cans in front of a loud guitar cab attempting to hear the mic's pickup only or going deaf trying to?

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by lpkyer

The theory is excellent, but I always find I miss low end from proximity effect when miking in such fashion. What mic will you use in that application?

I like flat condensers. Flat dynamics like RE-20's are also good. Not a ribbon guy, I don't mic cabs in figure 8, too much rear lobe pickup.

[alternative4]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

What we are seeing in front of each speaker is known as a "beam blocker".

This was commonly used on UK combo amplifiers and speaker enclosures from the last 1950s until about 1972, in the case of Vox amplifiers and is an essential component to the sound. A "beam blocker" will diffuse the highmid and high end very quickly, evenly and efficiently... yielding a much more pleasant sound.

To mic this. Aim the microphone where the X is. 1' (30 cm) from the speaker, minimum, and about 3" from the left hand edge of the cone.

___
/ \
| X |
\ /
––––

Microphone choice is also very important. Ribbon, like a Royer121 is mild/natural, MD421 for presence and punch, U87 for hyped, SM57 for gunk.

Good luck, please don't destroy the beam blocker. You could also try a Digi 11 like another caller previously mentioned.

thanks for telling me that it's called beam blocker. I could guess it's for blocking some high to high mid, just didn't know it's often used in cabinet and didn't know when I bought the cab..lol

I only tried sm57 last time with few different placement, but it sounds a bit harsh to me in the clean tone. I will be trying more mics I have. ND468, Beta 52, M71S, U87, Josephson C42.
any good suggestions? I think I'm the only guy who feels sm57 is often harsh for tracking guitar cab

[heyman]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Which is it, going out with cans in front of a loud guitar cab attempting to hear the mic's pickup only or going deaf trying to?

Don't know about you guys, but I go right out to the amp with a pair of trusted headphones. I keep the amp level at a low level and move the mic around till I get the sound as close to what I am hearing coming from the amp. Just a process of what listening to the amp, going back to the headphones and repeat..

Once I am there, I will then brink the amp up to coax a little magic out of the speaker and adjust the preamp so it doesnt clip..

Another great way of working like this is if I have to use a second mic, I will flip phase on the second mic and move it around until it cancels out in my headphones.

[Snap]

I like flat condensers. Flat dynamics like RE-20's are also good. Not a ribbon guy, I don't mic cabs in figure 8, too much rear lobe pickup.

+1. Those are the mics I use too.

I think I'm the only guy who feels sm57 is often harsh for tracking guitar cab

+1. We are a small crowd.

[alternative4]

What about sm7b, e906 and i5? Which one gets smoother clean tone?
I listened fat sound's video demo and like it. sm7b was mentioned to be used with a ribbon as room.

[frans]

I don't mic this cab, it's just an image on a screen. I'm not THAT mad.

Apart from that, isolation headphones and you're done fast.
Beam blocker today:
Weber Beam Blocker -- high frequency diffuser

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by heyman

Don't know about you guys, but I go right out to the amp with a pair of trusted headphones. I keep the amp level at a low level and move the mic around till I get the sound as close to what I am hearing coming from the amp. Just a process of what listening to the amp, going back to the headphones and repeat..
Once I am there, I will then brink the amp up to coax a little magic out of the speaker and adjust the preamp so it doesnt clip..

The amps change sound when turned up. That's why I don't do that. I listen in the monitors, not cans with leakage coming through. Set those amps up where you will be recording them and get an assistant to move the mics while you listen. Is that so hard?

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by frans

Apart from that, isolation headphones and you're done fast.

Not so fast, the low end still leaks. Hire a monkey to move the mic.

[taturana]

Originally Posted by alternative4

What about sm7b, e906 and i5? Which one gets smoother clean tone?
I listened fat sound's video demo and like it. sm7b was mentioned to be used with a ribbon as room.

i often use the 906 (along with others) on guitar cabs... and it always seems to work just fine for me...

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by alternative4

thanks for telling me that it's called beam blocker. I could guess it's for blocking some high to high mid, just didn't know it's often used in cabinet and didn't know when I bought the cab..lol

You're very welcome. I'm a guitar and amp guy in a sense, and happy to share.

Originally Posted by alternative4

I only tried sm57 last time with few different placement, but it sounds a bit harsh to me in the clean tone. I will be trying more mics I have. ND468, Beta 52, M71S, U87, Josephson C42.
any good suggestions? I think I'm the only guy who feels sm57 is often harsh for tracking guitar cab

I can't stand SM57s used for anything besides hammering in nails. But it's all a matter of taste I suppose. Out of everything you've got above I think you'll get best results out of the ND468 and the U87. But again, halfway between the dustcap and the cone-edge. And at least 1' back maybe 18" (45cm).

But there are 4 speakers, you say? How do I pick just one?

Tap very lightly with your index finger on all 4 at the spot I mentioned and see which speaker sounds best to you. That will be the weakest one.

Mic a different one.

[heyman]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

The amps change sound when turned up. That's why I don't do that. I listen in the monitors, not cans with leakage coming through. Set those amps up where you will be recording them and get an assistant to move the mics while you listen. Is that so hard?

Jim, I am a one man shop..

[PhilDW]

Originally Posted by heyman

Jim, I am a one man shop..

Got a reamp box? Maybe not quite the same, but at least you can get some idea.

[heyman]

Originally Posted by PhilDW

Got a reamp box? Maybe not quite the same, but at least you can get some idea.

I do have a reamp.. 2- actually. To me it is not the same.. close, but...

[muggler]

I've got a cab like this, and I've found that keeping the mic on axis and perpendicular to the cab, and just moving it far enough left or right to entirely clear the post is the position that sounds the closest to dead-center on-axis mic-ing. Angling the mic in toward the center was not as good.