Neumann TLM 49 vs. SE 2200a (test)

[just_manu]

Hi !

I've recorded my self singing on a Neumann TLM 49 and on a SE 2200a. It's been recorded through my Steinberg MR816 mic preamp.

In both takes, I've been singing at the same distance from the mic.

Here you've got the sound clips. I'd like to know what people think about each other and guess wich one is the Neumann and wich one is the SE.

P.D. Sorry for my bad english, but I'm not native.

[mista min]

Mic 2 is the TLM-49

Mic 1 is the SE 2200a

Mic 1 sounds thinner than mic 2.

[ARIEL]

Hmmm well I have not used either one Mic 1 sounds good as a solo . It is a bit hyped sounding in the low and Hi end . which may not work as well in a full mix . You want something a little more flat . Mic 2 is flatter sounding , Not as exciting but would work well in a full mix . Sorry I dont know what is what . Mic 1 In solo acoustic stuff , mic 2 in full band stuff

[karumba]

thanks for sharing.
i think mic1 sounds better on your voice.

[gouge]

i haven't heard either before but my guess is mic 2 is the neumann.

mic 1 has siblance issues

i'm not sure whether you are standing really close to the mic or if your preamps ordinary but both mics sound very small to me.

[andrea19837]

Neumann mic 2.

Change preamp for better results.( 1k$/CH)

Add compressor for even better (1176, la2a, 176)

[didier.brest]

I prefer mic1.

[just_manu]

As I see there's no much movement.... I will say that first mic is SE 2200a.

When i bought the Neumann, I couldn't believe that I still liked the SE much more !

I thought that 1150€ would make me feel a great difference, but I ended loving much more the sound of SE.

[karumba]

as proven again here: the best mic is not the most expensive one, but the one that suits the voice & song best.

[just_manu]

Originally Posted by karumba

as proven again here: the best mic is not the most expensive one, but the one that suits the voice & song best.

[gouge]

i dunno,

i think what this shootout shows more than anything is if you spend 1150 euros on a mic and plug it into a hopeless mic pre you're not getting value for money.

i would suspect if you had a decent preamp the neumann would sound a whole lot more open and richer.

[just_manu]

Originally Posted by gouge

i dunno,

i think what this shootout shows more than anything is if you spend 1150 euros on a mic and plug it into a hopeless mic pre you're not getting value for money.

i would suspect if you had a decent preamp the neumann would sound a whole lot more open and richer.

My opinion is that a mic of 1400€, should sound great through any preamp. Note: the preamps of the steinberg mr are ashtonishing clear.

[Jose]

Originally Posted by just_manu

My opinion is that a mic of 1400€, should sound great through any preamp. Note: the preamps of the steinberg mr are ashtonishing clear.

Hi Manu,

you are right, I think it is a matter of expectations, you expect so much more from a 1.150€ mike than a 200€ one.

In any case I think it deppens on the application and the chain I guess.And probably the brand name...



Hola Manu,

tienes razón, creo que es cuestión de expectativas, esperas mucho más de un micro que vale 1.150€ que de uno de 200€.

En cualquier caso depende mucho de la aplicación y la cadena, supongo.Y probablemente la marca...

[gouge]

that's just not the case, you plug a great mic into a poor signal path and you will hear a poor signal path.

[Jose]

Originally Posted by gouge

that's just not the case, you plug a great mic into a poor signal path and you will hear a poor signal path.

I heard a TLM49-Millenia-Lynx Aurora and wasn't impressed, I'd guess in some cases the source is all that matters, and your taste at the end is who takes the decision.If it sounds good it is good.

[just_manu]

Originally Posted by Jose

Hi Manu,

you are right, I think it is a matter of expectations, you expect so much more from a 1.150€ mike than a 200€ one.

In any case I think it deppens on the application and the chain I guess.And probably the brand name...



Hola Manu,

tienes razón, creo que es cuestión de expectativas, esperas mucho más de un micro que vale 1.150€ que de uno de 200€.

En cualquier caso depende mucho de la aplicación y la cadena, supongo.Y probablemente la marca...

Hi Jose !

It's great to have comments from one from the same country !

Summarizing, I think that marketing plays a really important role in gear. I've ended selling the Newmann and buying the SE again.

[Jose]

Originally Posted by just_manu

Hi Jose !

It's great to have comments from one from the same country !

Summarizing, I think that marketing plays a really important role in gear. I've ended selling the Newmann and buying the SE again.

Yes, I don't understand why some old designs fully I+D amortized still costing so much money, probably because they invest in marketing like crazy, good for you, you can invest that money somewhere else, anyway I have to say that good pres, converters etc, are very important, you must find the ones you like and fit your needs.

[karumba]

just due to interest, i matched the frequency response of the neumann to the SE by EQ (2 simple peak filter):

mic 1:
******//dl.dropbox.com/u/2216927/misc...2200a_mic1.mp3

mic 2:
******//dl.dropbox.com/u/2216927/misc...2200a_mic2.mp3

[miscend]

Originally Posted by gouge

that's just not the case, you plug a great mic into a poor signal path and you will hear a poor signal path.

Since when did a clean mic Pre become a poor signal path?

[gouge]

Originally Posted by miscend

Since when did a clean mic Pre become a poor signal path?

i didn't say a clean mic pre was a poor signal path, i said "this" clean mic pre sounded liked a poor signal path.

[just_manu]

Originally Posted by karumba

just due to interest, i matched the frequency response of the neumann to the SE by EQ (2 simple peak filter):

mic 1:
******//dl.dropbox.com/u/2216927/misc...2200a_mic1.mp3

mic 2:
******//dl.dropbox.com/u/2216927/misc...2200a_mic2.mp3

[James_SE]

Hi all...

try putting up the 2200a against the TLM103... :-) I agree that the mic pre should be 'matched' to the mic... if you have a good mic and a 'poor' pre (I'm not saying yours is btw.. I haven't used it) then you won't hear all the capability of the mic of course and it will mask some of the differences. But, you'd be surprised if you do the same thing again with another pre I don't think you'll get very different results. We've done a bunch of AB stuff, blind tests in big studios, and had similar feedback to this. As well as 2200a against TLM103, try X1 against NT1a, NT2a and TLM103... I'f love to hear feedback on this. We're in the process of commissioning independent double blind tests at a major London studio with press as observers... should be on the sE site by mid Dec.. good or bad!

Cheers

James sE

[warhead]

We have both the sE 2200A and the Neumann TLM 49 in our Clipalator. After listening to your clips and ours, they follow the same differences to my ears as well.

I also agree with James @ sE here, the X1 is another to listen to on a budget.

I am still a fan of the TLM 49, mainly on acoustic instruments. In fact, it's one of the nicest deliveries of acoustic guitar in the entire Clipalator...almost sounds like a 12 string compared to the other mics, seemingly filling things in nicely with harmonic overtones.

War

[Jean30]

Many thanks for this test, I wanted to buy this type of microphone and SE 2200A seems a good choice (I had a look also on the Oktava MK101 and Sennheiser MK4).

Neumann large membrane seems to have some attenuation in the high frequencies compared to others. So they have no problem for sibilance, but it's a little expensive compared to a small equalisation, the good idea is to find a rather neutral microphone with the less problem in response curve not specially a straight line, but a smooth line.

[Oldone]

It always kills me when an inexperienced engineer plugs a tranformerless mic into a transformerless preamp into an inexpensive converter and expects it to sound good.

[mista min]

Originally Posted by just_manu

As I see there's no much movement.... I will say that first mic is SE 2200a.

When i bought the Neumann, I couldn't believe that I still liked the SE much more !

I thought that 1150€ would make me feel a great difference, but I ended loving much more the sound of SE.

Sorry for my late reply... I thought the SE 2200a sounded not so good. Used it before and in this sample, it felt thinner and not as full.

I personally felt the TLM was better in tone and could use a little bit of air, not much, just a hair that a good eq can give. The SE was harsh and thinner sounding.

Peace,
Min

[Vintageidiot]

To each his own, I preferred mic 2.....

[jaffa]

Mic two is so obviously the Neumann! More rounded sound, better bass end - and the biggest giveaway (for someone who owns a TLM 49) it pops more....

A few misconceptions on here about the MR816 (which I also have, amongst other converters and pres) It's clean, I used it the other day alongside a Daking pre, which was going through the MR816 converters too. the Daking had a much fuller, richer sound but the MR816 was so quiet and clean...certainly a very useful pre. The converters on the MR816 are exceptional. I have Lavry blacks and Lynx here and believe me if you can tell which is which you've got better ears than me!

Steve

[miscend]

Originally Posted by Oldone

It always kills me when an inexperienced engineer plugs a tranformerless mic into a transformerless preamp into an inexpensive converter and expects it to sound good.

Not everyone wants to record distortion.

[Chucho]

Originally Posted by Vintageidiot

To each his own, I preferred mic 2.....

Yes I did too.
No idea which one is which.