Yamaha DM 2000 AD+DA performance better on external clock?

[grooveminister]

Hi,

I´m using a Yamaha DM 2000 in combination with 2x RME Hammerfall digi 9652 since 2003.
As i´ve been using the internal converters all the time - and no strong urge to buy better converters emerged - the Yamaha DM 2000 was always clocked on it´s internal WC.

The RME cards got Wordclock via BNC, and the Lexicon 300L and my t.c. stuff got synced via AES as I didn´t use their (older) converters but connected them digitally.
With this setup, I never heard a single click & pop - and as I´ve been using only the internal converters, it´s was simple but sonically efficient.

Now I had to move to a Presonus FireStudio Lightpipe interface - and using the same WC topology - I get one fullchannel click a day.

I talked to the fittest guy at my studiogear-shop and he recommended adding a central wordclock like the mutec MC-3 or the "Big Ben" to the setup.
This would not only remove the clicks:
He said that in his experience, the DM2000 converters would be very good - but the internal WC extremely bad - and that he heard the internal AD/DA converters improved drastically when the DM2000 of a customer was clocked to even a "cheap" MUTEC MC-3.

Now as this stands against everything what I´ve heard and read the last 8 years, I wanted to hear your opinion:

Is it really possible, that in such a basic setup with only the internal converters IN & OUT, that the performance would improve sonically on an external clock?

[nkf]

As much as I respect Mutec products - I even know the developer personally - I think it is a waste of money in your situation. Until today my DM2000 is the WC master and clocks via Lake People word clock distribution amps, MADI and AES/EBU all the other devices including my surround monitoring chain.
I use the DM2000 A/D (with the internal clock of course) only for two synthesizers and a talkback mic and the quality of the A/D was always very good for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use the DM2000 A/D for other tasks too if I had too.
My digital setup is quite complex and extensive and the DM2000 is a good word clock master for it ...
For D/A I use a RME ADI8Qs nowadays, which is much better sounding than the build in D/A. But I receives it's WC from the DM2000 too.

[DannyMac]

I've had my DM2000 since they came out. I tried a couple of clocks years back, but didn't seem to do too much.
A month ago I clocked it from my new AVID HDi/o...... OMG
the difference was night and day - it also revealed how bad the DM clock actually is - I have a VERY good monitoring setup and hearing these differences is easy even for my 70 year old mum who likes to pop by every so often

[grooveminister]

@ nkf: Thank you - I see what you mean!
Do you use external AD´s or are you working with a motherlode of virtual intruments or digitally connected synths & effects?

The RME stuff reclocks everything, so conversion quality doesn´t degrade (noticeable) when clocked externally.

[grooveminister]

@ Danny Mac:
You must be using external converter - AD and/or DA or digital monitors - right?

I´ve talked to Ulrich Schierbecker who prodives modifications for digital yamaha mixers and he said the PLL of the DM 2000 itself would very unlikely clock cleaner to an external clock (even of the most solid quality) than to it´s own quartz.

So your hearing an improvement because your listening to external converters?

[nkf]

Originally Posted by grooveminister

@ nkf: Thank you - I see what you mean!
Do you use external AD´s or are you working with a motherlode of virtual intruments or digitally connected synths & effects?

The RME stuff reclocks everything, so conversion quality doesn´t degrade (noticeable) when clocked externally.

Sorry, I just saw now your reply ... didn't receive a notice ...
I use external ADs like the aforementioned RME ADI-8QS and the AD in my Grace Design m201/AD. I have a lot of digital connected external effects and a bunch of synthesizers with WC input, some modified in the past by Mr. Schierbecker, and all are clocked from the DM2000 via two Lake People WC distribution amps and their AES/EBU inputs. Of course from within Nuendo I use a bunch of VSTis.
The DM2000 AD is just used for a talkback mic, Clavia G2 and Moog Voyager RME. There are a lot of devices involved but to explain all the connections would go to far ... ;-)
I hope the description sheds some light on what you can do with a DM2000 as a clock master ... for me that works just fine and sounds superb.

[nkf]

Originally Posted by grooveminister

I´ve talked to Ulrich Schierbecker who prodives modifications for digital yamaha mixers and he said the PLL of the DM 2000 itself would very unlikely clock cleaner to an external clock (even of the most solid quality) than to it´s own quartz.

This confirms what I was experiencing. Mr. Schierbecker is an authority when it comes to Yamaha technical stuff.

[bluejbill]

Just curious, what modifications does he do?

For my part, I have used internal clocking on the DM2000 from day one. Sounds fine.

I also use the internal AD, though I have been tempted to get a quality stereo unit, at least to try.

Originally Posted by nkf

This confirms what I was experiencing. Mr. Schierbecker is an authority when it comes to Yamaha technical stuff.

[dtf]

I would be surprised if the internal clock of the DM 2000 was bad. I remember from the 02/R that the internal clock was extremely good, however performance of the board degraded significantly when slaving to an external clock.

[DannyMac]

Sorry to clear up.......
The ad side of things is good, many good recordings done on the desk using madi out to nuendo, but the monitor section d/a side of things is poor and makes mixing a hit and miss affair in the low end.
Recent test was using external clocking from avid hd io and built in d/a on the 2000.
Ran much better than clocked internally. Monitors ATC 50asl in very good room

[nkf]

Originally Posted by bluejbill

Just curious, what modifications does he do?

I had him done modifications on five Yamaha synthesizers so that they had AES/EBU outputs and WC input. Some were modifications done once just for me I think (e.g. SY99). There were some technical specialties done for I/O cards and format converters in my DMC1000 and 02R times. I think he is until today the only one offering a MADI card for the DM2000.
He build his own format converters and special hardware as digital solutions in larger setups. Why not having a look what he is offering nowadays on his web site:
******//www.audio-service.com/as/home...n&Query=Lang=E