Smashing Pumpkins Drum Sound

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by GusWash

a couple other things...

Smart had just installed a Harrison console when we did GISH, but most of the drums were recorded through API preamps.

No samples on the drums for GISH. Alan Moulder added some triggers to the snare on Siamese Dream, but it was a 70% acoustic 30% sample blend. Most of the samples had a sort of "gunshot ring" to them...they were custom samples by Alan or myself.
BV

THANKS !!!!!!


Siamese Dream drums also on APIs ???

Were samples used on NEVERMIND ???????

Thanks again ,

[Sharkus]

Luna was my wife and I's first dance song at our wedding.
The guitar riff on I am one was played so loud so many times. . . Great memories. GearSluts never fails to amaze me.
Great work Butch.

[fooman]

Originally Posted by Sharkus

Luna was my wife and I's first dance song at our wedding.

That's pretty great! I love that song.

[HeavyG]

I agree with all of the love for Butch and Jimmy C...


They created some hall of fame drum performances. I think we all know that the chain starts with a world class player like Mr. C....but Butch and the others involved found a way to capture a sonic tapestry of rock drumming that will stand the test of time.

Tip of the cap to Butch and Jimmy...I went to school on your stuff.

Cheers...

[knowndebaser]

i found this article that might be of use to some of you guys, and help answer some of your questions.
Smashing Pumpkins Recording Sessions
the smashing pumpkins recording sessions

[rockrev]

Again, SD was tracked on a Neve console (per Jeff Tomei). I believe Gish was done on an API. If I'm wrong, let me know.

dj

Follow the gear trail (Neve console from Triclops reference) . . .

Daniel Lanois

[Louderock]

There was definitely a Neve at Triclops. It was an 8068 or 8078. Not sure which. Jeff Tomei is on Myspace.

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by rockrev

Again, SD was tracked on a Neve console (per Jeff Tomei). I believe Gish was done on an API. If I'm wrong, let me know.

dj

Follow the gear trail (Neve console from Triclops reference) . . .

Daniel Lanois

Wow , Neve really is the shiznit !

Every album that blows me away , I wonder , what console they use ? Neve...............I should just stop asking ,

[aidyhall]

I had the great pleasure of assisting Alan Moulder on some mix sessions a few years ago, and I've gotta say, wow, he really is great ...

It was all rock-band type mixes, the most notable of which was probably the single mix for A Perfect Circle's second single (I think ... might be wrong, it was awhile ago ...)

Samples were definitely used, but in a really organic way ... Kick would trigger 3 different samples from a Forat F16, coming up 3 extra channels on the desk, with their own compression and EQ ... blend to taste ... and maybe he rode different kicks up and down in different sections of the song (certainly the facility was there to do that). Same story with the snare, but always blended with the original. Some parallel compression going on, but with a separate drum blend derived from the small faders ...

I was a reasonably experienced assistant by then, and what was really mind-blowing was if you looked at the desk, the EQ and comp was no different to what I was doing in my projects ... there was no 'secret trick'. But the combination of all the subtleties, the right EQ, compression and balance, made the sound just absolutely superb ...

A few years later, I mixed half an album by a band called ELVISS, and Alan Moulder had mixed the other half, and it was then that I realised maybe I could do this job (!) ...

[bcgood]

I just wanted to add that even though this whole album is awesome one song and one section of that song really stand out to me. One of my favorite songs, Hummer, (Track 4) is pure bliss from around 4 minutes 30 seconds till the end; it gets soooo dreamy. One of my favorite moments in that record maybe one of my favorite musical moments period. His guitar work in this section is awesome, not to mention the drums, production, really everything is bliss...

Do you feel, love is real?

[mixman499]

Originally Posted by GusWash

a couple other things...

Smart had just installed a Harrison console when we did GISH, but most of the drums were recorded through API preamps.

No samples on the drums for GISH. Alan Moulder added some triggers to the snare on Siamese Dream, but it was a 70% acoustic 30% sample blend. Most of the samples had a sort of "gunshot ring" to them...they were custom samples by Alan or myself.
BV

butch,

good to see you on here. thanks for all the great records you have made over the years.

and, thanks for building such a cool studio (smart) i just moved to milwaukee, and hope to be making it one of my new homes. did a mix there for a week a few weeks back...and LOVED the room, the a-range, and all the peeps. madison is fun too !!

all the best,

jchristopherhughes

[infopimpster]

Epic thread!

This album is one of those "time warp" albums for me... the type of album that is timeless but that was listened to almost non-stop for a year... I put it on and I am transported!

Those interested in Jimmy's drumming should check out his Signature Drums sample DVD which includes a video of him showing his setup and playing...

M-AUDIO - Jimmy Chamberlin Signature Drums Vol. 1 - 24-bit Drum Loops

...plus, you can break some of his signature riffs (I am One) down track by track. :)

[Machina]

So good to see all the Smashing Pumpkins fans chime in!
Sorry for interrupting and getting a little technical again, but I'd love to hear some more about the recording/mixing process. What kind of EQs or Comps were used? How much while tracking? Did the sounds change drastically while mixing or was it more about FX and getting balances? Would be great to get to know something about the whole procedure!

Thanks Butch (!) and thanks all you guys for sharing your knowledge (and passion)!

Again: this is awesome!

Take care,

Chris

[audiovisceral]

Originally Posted by Machina

So good to see all the Smashing Pumpkins fans chime in!

Would be great to get to know something about the whole procedure!

Thanks Butch (!)

i think we scared him off ...

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by bcgood

I just wanted to add that even though this whole album is awesome one song and one section of that song really stand out to me. One of my favorite songs, Hummer, (Track 4) is pure bliss from around 4 minutes 30 seconds till the end; it gets soooo dreamy. One of my favorite moments in that record maybe one of my favorite musical moments period. His guitar work in this section is awesome, not to mention the drums, production, really everything is bliss...

Do you feel, love is real?

The bass tone is just perfect , mixed loud , gives them such a phat warm sound , can't get any better .

Listening to this album again makes me realize just how crappy all the rock bands are today . a real joke !

[j-madd]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

Listening to this album again makes me realize just how crappy all the rock bands are today . a real joke !

Unfortunately, I have to agree for the most part. Rock needs a shot in the arm, like when grunge broke or woodstock. Copies of Copies gets old.

Justin

[ToddF]

I see I missed a thread on one of my favorite bands.
One thing I like about SD and MCIS are that they don't sound sonically like any other bands. If you play those records then most any other rock band it sounds very different.
Of course the songs are great also. Gish is a litte thinner sounding overall but still nice.
The later albums started not sounding as good in my opinion. The last album especially.

Great band that had some great songs. Thanks for working so hard on those abums BV. Many many people were effected by those records and still are.

Pecae, Todd

[theGeek]

I was just having a discussion with my studio engineer about the same thing. He said he was going to research it because that was the sound we were looking for with our next project.

If/when we're able to find out I'll let you know.

[Tibbon]

BV- Thanks for popping in. A few month ago Chris Fogel chimed in on something, and now you. Very nice.

bcgood- Thanks for reposting the wikipedia entry, but keep in mind that the wiki can be prone to errors and shouldn't be regarded as fact by any means. It's not an excessively well cited entry imho and points to a lot of kinda fluffy backup if you ask me.

I've seen SP play twice and got to meet Billy/James/Jimmy/Melissa on the 2002 (think it was then) tour and talk for a bit. I'd say it's definitely mainly Jimmy's playing, great use of mic technique and positioning, using the 'room' properly and working with it instead of fighting it, tasty use of samples, selective editing when needed and of course last (and likely least in many ways) great gear. You have to work with the drummer, the parts and the song... not against them. Applying a specific formula to any drummer just won't work to produce such results.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

bcgood- Thanks for reposting the wikipedia entry, but keep in mind that the wiki can be prone to errors and shouldn't be regarded as fact by any means. It's not an excessively well cited entry imho and points to a lot of kinda fluffy backup if you ask me.

Which part of the entry do you dispute?

[ddageek]

Hey butch its good to hear from, its been awhile and thanks for clearing things up but, one thing I have always hated from these threads is once all the wannabees find out what was used they think that all they have to do is buy the gear and Bamm they have that sound! Now I know you and I have had this same discussion years ago, but for me (and yeah it always seams strange coming from even a reformed gear pimp) but I always find this dangerous that so many people don't realize that most of that sound is the performer the gear is just a part of what was used to capture it and its not going to change the Drummer you think sounds like Jimmie into a Jimmie clone! Then again the fun for me has always been to find my own sound!
anyway Say Hi to Lonya, Mike and Pauly for me!

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by ddageek

Hey butch its good to hear from, its been awhile and thanks for clearing things up but, one thing I have always hated from these threads is once all the wannabees find out what was used they think that all they have to do is buy the gear and Bamm they have that sound! Now I know you and I have had this same discussion years ago, but for me (and yeah it always seams strange coming from even a reformed gear pimp) but I always find this dangerous that so many people don't realize that most of that sound is the performer the gear is just a part of what was used to capture it and its not going to change the Drummer you think sounds like Jimmie into a Jimmie clone! Then again the fun for me has always been to find my own sound!
anyway Say Hi to Lonya, Mike and Pauly for me!

Yes , once Butch gives me the secret formula I can then transform myself into Jimmys clone and start a new band , Smashing Potatoes and take over the rock world !! Brilliant plan I know !!! WA HA HA !!

[soupking]

So if it's true what was posted by bcgood (wherever it was sourced from)
that they used like 40 layered guitar tracks, I'm assuming they had to sync tape machines together inorder to properly track and mix everything.

Then used still also need that today to play it back.

[mixman499]

Originally Posted by ddageek

Hey butch its good to hear from, its been awhile and thanks for clearing things up but, one thing I have always hated from these threads is once all the wannabees find out what was used they think that all they have to do is buy the gear and Bamm they have that sound! Now I know you and I have had this same discussion years ago, but for me (and yeah it always seams strange coming from even a reformed gear pimp) but I always find this dangerous that so many people don't realize that most of that sound is the performer the gear is just a part of what was used to capture it and its not going to change the Drummer you think sounds like Jimmie into a Jimmie clone! Then again the fun for me has always been to find my own sound!
anyway Say Hi to Lonya, Mike and Pauly for me!

yup.

you either GET that...or ya do NOT.

i just speant 2 hours convincing a drummer that HE does not sound like what he WANTS to sound like.

none of my daking, api, neve, or trident preamps or 12 channels of compression, or coles ribbon mics, or ANYTHING will change THAT !!

they just ADD to the sound that is already there with the musician....once you figure that out....its all pretty easy. just work with GREAT musicians !!!

best,

jchristopherhughes

[john_h88]

Originally Posted by bcgood

I just wanted to add that even though this whole album is awesome one song and one section of that song really stand out to me. One of my favorite songs, Hummer, (Track 4) is pure bliss from around 4 minutes 30 seconds till the end; it gets soooo dreamy. One of my favorite moments in that record maybe one of my favorite musical moments period. His guitar work in this section is awesome, not to mention the drums, production, really everything is bliss...

Do you feel, love is real?

Great post.....that stands out for me too, and in particular the guitar/drum interplay from 5:58 on is absolute perfection. I love how that track leaves you all relaxed and euphoric, only to be grabbed by the balls and levitated when Rocket explodes to start the next track. The whole SD album is just so exciting, might be my first pick as the "you can only take 1 album to a desert island."

BTW the extras to the SP Vieuphoria DVD has a great little making of SD vignette. I have not seen it in a while but remember there being an interview with BV and some tracking footage. I remember an SM7 being used for vocals in the tracking sequence but not sure about the drums other than you hear JC playing live with just a room mic and its a treat. I think I remember also seeing an API console behind BV during the interview.

[jammybastard]

Originally Posted by john_h88

BTW the extras to the SP Vieuphoria DVD has a great little making of SD vignette. .

Yeah, that's the one that has Butch telling the viewer that the secret to the Pumpkins's sound is running everything through a Mutron Bi-Phase.

BTW - I live in Madison and I've mixed at Smart. There's an Eventide in the A room that 's dialed up to a preset called "Pumpkinizer".
I tried to get Mike Zirkel to mix it in on something last time I was there w/o any luck. He said it sounds "too dated".


Big love to ya Butch, hope you and the family are well.

[Machina]

Originally Posted by ddageek

Hey butch its good to hear from, its been awhile and thanks for clearing things up but, one thing I have always hated from these threads is once all the wannabees find out what was used they think that all they have to do is buy the gear and Bamm they have that sound! Now I know you and I have had this same discussion years ago, but for me (and yeah it always seams strange coming from even a reformed gear pimp) but I always find this dangerous that so many people don't realize that most of that sound is the performer the gear is just a part of what was used to capture it and its not going to change the Drummer you think sounds like Jimmie into a Jimmie clone! Then again the fun for me has always been to find my own sound!
anyway Say Hi to Lonya, Mike and Pauly for me!

I really know where you're coming from, but I think I have to make clear that I indeed DO realize that knowing the instruments, mics and signal chains someone uses won't make the records I'm recording/mixing/whatever sound like Butch Vig and The Smashing Pumpkins or someone else I really appreciate for their work (and apart from this I don't think it's beneficial for your own "career" to copy someone else).
OF COURSE the artists and the people involved such as the producer or engineer make most of it happen and gear is just the icing on the cake. I myself have noticed in the last years (although I'm not into this for more than maybe 6-7) that getting a great sound is just so much easier with great musicians, great songs and beautiful sounding instruments and furthermore nearly impossible with bad ones. No Pre, EQ, Comp, FX, Beat Detective or Drumagog can change that (although maybe makes this sh*t at least somehow listenable to the world out there )

BUT: You can't make a low-end desk sound like an API, Neve or SSL and I feel I have come to a point where I have to take a look around and see what gear other people use and how other people work. And threads like this are just a great way of having the chance to ask the guys who have worked on records you love. And it's not about kissing someone's a** thinking "Wow, I'll buy all this guy's stuff and I'll be the man!". Really not. Besides the fact that I don't have the money right now - studio rent has to be paid, too It's just a way of getting input from people who REALLY know what they're doing and have proven this over a long period of time.

Hope you know what I mean!

All the best,

Chris