Neumann U47 in comparison to the Neumann U67 microphone

[JOHN]

Hello to All

I am thinking of buying a second hand Neumann U47 microphone. I already own a Neumann U67.

I know every U67 and U47 sounds different but there is a sound to these mic,s that continue within the brand of mic say the U67s will sound similar to each other. So before I start the buying process of the U47 any comments would help please.


1. My question is does the U 47 sound fuller and deeper compared to the U67.
2. Does the U 47 sound more transparent compared to the U67.
3. Does the U47 have more top and bottom end compared to the U67.
4. What about the Neumann M149 compared to the Neumann U47.


I would appreciate any other comments you wish to make about the Neumann U47 in comparison to the Neumann U67 microphone.

I have hired a U47 but it was absolutely rubbish it was so battered and badly cared for.


Thank you.

JOHN REMY.

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally posted by JOHN

1. My question is does the U 47 sound fuller and deeper compared to the U67.
2. Does the U 47 sound more transparent compared to the U67.
3. Does the U47 have more top and bottom end compared to the U67.
4. What about the Neumann M149 compared to the Neumann U47.

1,2 and 3 all depend on the U47 that you get your hands on. I have one and have a friend that has 2 of them. they all sound different and nothing like a U67. Neither the 47 or the 67 have what I would call a transparent sound. Transparent to me is true to the source ... transparent means that what you hear acousticcaly with your ears gets reproduced by the speakers. Of course there's more in the signal chain that will effect the sound then just the mic, like the Pre, AD, ... but the mic is the first one in line. The 47 and the 67 are not transparent ... not in my book at least.

149 vs a good U47 .... don't bother comparing. The 149 is a splendid mic, very reliable and rock solid. when you plug it in you know what you'll get. With vintage mics like the 47 you can allways be in for surprises. Sometimes I have the impression that it sounds different on different days. Maybe it's just me ... but when it sounds right .... nothing sounds better.

Oh, very important when you get a 47 is that you have the power supply checked. it is a crucial element of a good sounding 47. Often forgotten I think.

Last thing .... at least the one I have .... I have to remember plugin' it in like an hour before I actually wanna start using it . I've noticed that it needs that time to get 'warm and cozy'

[JOHN]

Hi Chris Lambrechts

Thank you for your reply

You wrote

149 vs a good U47 .... don't bother comparing. The 149 is a splendid mic, very reliable and rock solid. when you plug it in you know what you'll get. With vintage mics like the 47 you can allways be in for surprises. Sometimes I have the impression that it sounds different on different days. Maybe it's just me ... but when it sounds right .... nothing sounds better.


Do you mean the M149 is better than the NEUMANN U47 ? .



Thanks

JOHN REMY

[JOHN]

HI Chris Lambrechts

Can you explain more why the power supply has an affect on the sound of a mic, or why the sound of a mic would change because of an average power supply.



Thanks.

JOHN REMY

[jon]

M149 = crispy high end, less than full mids/low-mids so its relatively thin-sounding, modern mic sound, good sometimes for pop vox, mainly really good as a room mic /amb mic imho.

U47 in good shape = bigger than life vocals, slight fattening/distortion at higher SPL levels, less sizzly than modern mics (a Pultec EQP1A goes well with an U47), big bottom end and wonderful low-mids/mids/upper-mids.

I tend to see the U67 as being more of a mic for tenor/alto ranges, poppier or clearer vox, and a U47 for a bigger sound particularly suited to baritone/tenor ranges, rock vox, and up-close intimate or crooner vox as well.

Of course, every voice is special. One voice will sound great on one mic, terrible on another, and with the next artist it could well be the opposite.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.

[Fletcher]

I'm not Chris... but perhaps I can be of assistance here...

Many U-47 power supplies have electrolytic filter caps that are older than Cuban Missle Crisis... electrolytics have a tendency to dry up over the years and lose their abilities to properly filter the AC voltages to ground causing AC ripple on the power rails to the amplifier and capsule polarization rails... this will cause less than optimal response from your microhone... at best, it adds noise, at worst it'll **** up the amplifier... now it ain't rocket science to change the capacitors... but it might be something worth considering when looking at a mic that's older than you are.

With that said... I have found the Soundelux E-47 to be as good as some of the best 47's/48's I've used... and far superior to about 80-85% of the "vintage" 47's and 48's I've encountered in the last few years... obviously they don't have the "vintage" cache... but if you're talking about audio vs. "selling time"... IMNTLBFHO, they're an excellent tool for purposes where a "vintage tube U-47" could come in handy.

As always... YMMV

[bloodstone]

Greetings. I was curious, do the "Pre-Sennheiser" 149 Neumann's sound better than the post? Is this even a factor/possibility?

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally posted by JOHN

Do you mean the M149 is better than the NEUMANN U47 ? .

definately not. The 149 is an excellent mic imho. But I prefer a good 47.

Jon mentioned something very important. a mic that's perfect for one singer or on one instrument might completely suck on another. And it has little or nothing to do with what the mic costs. I've had excellent results recording a voice with a sm57. That same song and voice completely sucked with a 47 for example.

[faeflora]

Ah I understand now about the power supplies. Electrolytic Missile Crisis's lose ripple polarization noise on the rocket capacitors IMNTLBFGTGIFWWFASCAPBMIO! QED!

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally posted by JOHN
HI Chris Lambrechts

Can you explain more why the power supply has an affect on the sound of a mic, or why the sound of a mic would change because of an average power supply.



Thanks.

JOHN REMY

what Fletcher said. Not so long ago we bought a 47 (sold it in the meantime). the powersupply was in realy bad shape. on first sight it worked .... powered the mic etc etc ... but the sound wasn't there. enough to hook it up to our own power supply to find out where the problem was. Had the one that came with the mic fixed up and worked excellent after that.

[atticus]

Originally posted by bloodstone
Greetings. I was curious, do the "Pre-Sennheiser" 149 Neumann's sound better than the post? Is this even a factor/possibility?

I was under the impression that all of the 149's were made during the Sennheiser era. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Fletcher]

You're not wrong... the M-149 was a Sennheiser invention...

[Bob Olhsson]

A STOCK U-67 combined with a Pultec to tweak the top and bottom exactly where you want it is really hard to beat. (I also really like API 550s for this.) It works on almost anybody and there are almost no sibilance problems. They also are really hard to pop. One thing to watch is that the pad is needed a lot more often than most people expect.

Modded U-67s are all over the map so I personally don't consider them to be real 67s!

[Shawn1272]

I have found the Soundelux E-47 to be as good as some of the best 47's/48's I've used.

Fletcher- I've been thinking about getting a large diaphragm tube mic like the E-47 or a Lawson. Is the E-47 worth the money? Any opinions of the Lawson mics? Any other mics worth looking at?

Sorry to get off topic here.

Shawn

[Fletcher]

As Gene distributes the Lawson mics directly... it's not really worth his time nor effort to send me one with which to play... so I can't really offer a fair assessment of the product.

I can say that I have been damn impressed with the E-47... enough so I sold all of my original 47's [well, there were only two in my personal collection... but they were replaced with E-47's... don't miss the originals a bit].

I dunno if that will or does relate to your reality... but it's working for mine.

[e-cue]

I was in a situation where the OG U47 wasn't available but the Soundelux was. It worked seemlessly on vocals. If I was in the market for a 47, I would no doubt pick up the Soundelux version.

[electronboy]

Originally posted by bloodstone
Greetings. I was curious, do the "Pre-Sennheiser" 149 Neumann's sound better than the post? Is this even a factor/possibility?

There is no pre Sennheiser M149, but three different versions of M149, all suck big time, Neumann or better Sennheiser forgets to tell people that the tube inside the mic is just for marketing. First they started with an EC1000, a electrometer triode made for O-scopes, didn't work out because to noisy, than they tried the EF732, to microphonic, and last but not least the 6111 dual triode that was original made for the Minute Man rocket program, a simple switch on off triode. No microphonics, no noise but also no sound. None of these tubes actually works well in their mics, also only the front side of the capsule sees the tube signal path, the back just goes via the op amp no tube. Aside the underheating of the tube with 5V, the mic can not handle high signal levels without craping out, the random noise that starts about 6 month after first use, is quite anoying.....

Compared to a good working U47 the M149 sucks big time. I tried a E47, aside the noisy power sup (50Hz buss) it is quite capable to stand up next to a U47.

[dbock]

It would be unfair to compare the U47 with the M149, the only common thread is the badge and the KK47 capsule but the electonics are SO different it's not a fair comparison. The M149 will NEVER behave like a U47, there are at least 8 critical points of construction and topology that differ in the 149 from the 47. But this really isn't news, they never said it was a U47!
Happy Hunting,
David Bock

[dave-G]

Originally posted by e-cue
OG U47

[dave-G]

David,

Just out of academic curiosity, is the Soundelux E47's capsule based on a M7 - equipped U47 or a K/KK-47-equipped U47... Or rather, is its "U47-ness" acheived by attention to other components?

-dave

[dbock]

It's a complicated answer. It uses a kk47 style capsule that's been tweeked to fall within the frequency response range of my favorite M7, that is, a very slightly reduced presence peak @5kHz. No, it doesn't have the identical air (10kHz) of an M7 but, probably 1dB more than most kk47's.
Remember, it's not just "the capsule', or "the VF14 tube" that make a U47 tick, but a combination of at least 15 identifiable components and topologies that ADD UP to a U47. What this means is that you can put an M7 OR a KK47 in a U47 and it will still be a U47, and if both capsules are good, iether version of the mic is good. At that point it is a real matter of subtlety that will make you prefer one over the other, and it is a well documented fact that as many M7's (from U47's) have died out, they have very successfuly been replaced with KK47's without looosing the mic's "U47ness".
As to why we use the KK47 instead of the M7, the KK47 is easier to manufacture.
Hope this helps.
Regards
DB

[Mur]

U67-(Ronstadt, Dylan, McGuinn), U47-(Sinatra, Beatles, CSN&Y), M149-(room-mic? ..we need that for a room mic?).

[electronboy]

You can here the great sound of the M149 on recordings of the great german band

http://www.thomas-anders.com/
http://www.moderntalking.de/

than on the other hand David Hasselhof is also a hitmaking recording super star in germany.....

[groundcontrol]

David, in any case the mic is a great pleasure to use and much less frightning to put in front of a blazing amp or bass drum than a rented $$$ vintage 47. Not to mention that in most instances it also sounds better...

[Mur]

Mic lacks character ..(someone build a mod for it, please!)

[Mur]

Actually, there *is* a mod for M149 .. Pultec! .. (great combination) ..1073 works too. Anyone try it through a Fearn?

[Magic Genie]

I'm looking to smooth out the high end compared to my L-47 which can be a bit grainy up there...

Fletcher says the E-47 is great...

I'm also confused by the M-149 pricing- seems like the old ones are really cheap ($2k?) but the new ones are list $5500. Are the old ones worse? I know they have a different power supply.

ALso, I hardly ever see the E-47's used. I like to buy stuff used so I can try it out casually in my home over several months then sell it without taking a big loss.

[doug_hti]

IMO, buying a new 149 isn't a great value or value at all. Buying a used one can be a great value. I wouldn't spend more then 2500 or 2400 for a used one in great condition.

[faeflora]

The Telefunken 47 I tried out at AES sounded fantabular! The cardiod pattern seemed exceptionally tight and directional though. The sound was amazing though. Note though that they had the test setup with GRADO headphones, which audiophiles and engineers acknowledge as being some of the very best headphones. You may wanna check it out. The booth people were real arrogant cocksuckers so I personally wouldn't buy from them (I'd rather give my money to gene lawson or david bock who both seemed friendly) but hey mebbe you like shlong or only give a f' about how it sounds.

[Magic Genie]

Originally posted by faeflora
The Telefunken 47 I tried out at AES sounded fantabular! The cardiod pattern seemed exceptionally tight and directional though. The sound was amazing though. Note though that they had the test setup with GRADO headphones, which audiophiles and engineers acknowledge as being some of the very best headphones. You may wanna check it out. The booth people were real arrogant cocksuckers so I personally wouldn't buy from them (I'd rather give my money to gene lawson or david bock who both seemed friendly) but hey mebbe you like shlong or only give a f' about how it sounds.

Who is the manufacturer of this Telefunken 47? And what does it cost?

Is it better than Gene Lawson's 251?

What does David Bock make?