Guitar Amp Direct Out into PT HD or Mic'd Cab?

[TheMissileSilo]

I'm sure this has been asked/debated before but I didn't find anything in search results. So here are the details. My guitarist/co-producer and I are having a BIG battle over our guitar sound. We have almost an entire album tracked and today out of no where he just flipped and decided that he thinks all of our guitars should be tracked via mic'd cab not direct out of the hlaf-stack preamp into PT (he thinks they sound too synthesized and lack presence and body). The my opinion and the feedback I've received from other professionals is that the guitars sound great as tracked (Guitar Preamp into PT).

We want some facts from pro engineers about which way they like to go with rock/metal guitars.

Any opinions, thoughts, options, techniques are greatly appreciated! Many thanks in advance.

Here's the set up:

Guitar Rig:
Marshall Mode 4 Half-Stack (4 speaker matached Slant Cab) > Direct out of the Mode Pre into PT HD interface (then additional post plug-in processing).

Mic's on hand:
SM-57
Audio Technica 4060 Tube
Royer R-122
Neumann U-87

Out Board Dynamics Processing
UA 2-610
UA 2 1176
Re-Amp v2

The Room:
20'-x15' w/27' Vaulted celinings and all hardwood floors.

Best,

ron [k]

[RedWallStudio]

I would never record a guitar direct.. mostly because I am a guitar player and thats sacrilegious (might also be why your guitar player/co-producer is questioning it as well). Also it limits my options in recording.. I like experimenting with different mics, mic placement, different cabinets etc... but that's just me and that's what suits my style.

But all that said, if it sounds good now, why f#ck with it? There are almost no rules and all the rules that are in place can be broken without regret.

[Soundgeeza]

Totally agree with what RedWallStudio said.

It has to be said that if you've got those mics etc, then just to plug a lead from the back of your pre-amp to your interface is a teensy bit lazy and to do it properly (even using a re-amping technique) will DEFINITELY sound superior.

Get that Royer on the job! ... you'll love it!

[gabetx26]

I personally prefer to mic my guitars and you seem to have all the gear to get a great sound. I would use the sm57 and royer both pointed to the edge of the dust cap on separate speakers about as close as you can get them to the grill keeping them in phase with each other and run that thru your UA 2-610. I usually don't use compression going into PT on my guitar tracks since I can do that ITB during mixdown but it doesn't hurt to experiment especially with a UA 2 1176. If that cab has V-30's in it I don't think you'll find it hard to get a good sound blending the sm57 and royer tracks to taste. In the future you can avoid the pain of having to retrack for tone by recording an additional clean track direct from your guitar and that way later you have the option of re-amping it by running the clean signal back out of PT via a re-amping box (radial makes a good one) and back thru any guitar amp or outboard gear you please. Hope this helps, and good luck.

[AllBread]

Don't be a wus, mic that cab up! You can always grab the line out of the amp too ig you want.

[Jim Williams]

In Ye Olde Days we would have to make a decision or link up another 24 track machine = PITA.

Now days, tracks are cheaper than time. Mic up everything, also do the DI thingy too. Send about 4~6 tracks and decide which to use mix time. CYA.

That way, everyone involved gets their way, until mix time. That's where consensus usually happens anyway.

[rumbletone]

Mic the cab!! The Royer should sound great on it (assuming you like the sound of the amp - I'm not a fan of those particular Marshalls but presumably it gets 'the sound' that your band is looking for). The UA wouldn't normally be my first choice for guitar, but maybe don't crank the gain on it too high so it is sitting more in the 'less-colored' end of its sonic spectrum.

That said, unless you're really stretched for time/tracks, do an AB test. I would expect running it direct would give you a relatively tinny/aggressive/harsh but 'small' tone, but you may prefer it . . .

[YOHAMI]

Mic the cab! royer + 57

[TheMissileSilo]

Thanks everyone for your input!

The reason I have been tracking direct out from the Guitar amp is in fact because I liked the sound. I have experimented with using the mics (that's why I have them - to use when desired) but the way we've been going about it thus far works for us (well at least me now).

We have a few more tracks of new material to put guitar down on and I am going to try some of the above mentioned options of tracking the cab mic'd & grabbing the direct out at the same time as a safety.

Thanks again!

[jitterybit]

go out of PT into the guitar amp insert. Adjust gain as needed in PT. Re-track the already done guitars through the power amp and cab only. Will save you a ton of time. You can prob blend the direct and mic tracks as well. Just get them aligned. You can also eq in PT to cleanup low end rumble, gate, etc before retracking.

[jitterybit]

turn the amps preamp(s) all the way down if you do this to avoid extra noise

[bicasaur]

I'm thinking you are not going to get the "ultimate" guitar sound out of a Mode Four amp in the first place, so if you've got useable tracks from the direct out, I say go with them.

However, I agree that in general you can't beat a real cab miked up. If you've got the gear for a reamp setup, I recommend always tracking a line from the guitar while you record the amp sound; Then you can just play his old tracks back through the amp and whala! Also cool if you decide to mix the amps DI and cab sounds after the fact.

[Mesa dude]

I will Usually double mic with 57s the best
Sounding speaker, try them all one at a time
Through headphones. One 57 in the center almost touching grill. use a flashlight to locate that will get you power and some oomph. The second
Mic will be placed between the first one and the outer edge to add color and tone just like a drum. A nice tube mic Pre like the ua610 adds extra harmonic content and the ability to dial in some extra grit so you can turn the gain down on your amp for some clarity. I rented one for curiosity and now like my recorded and sound out of my pa better than out of the cabinet.

[Aaron Miller]

Guitar Rig:
Marshall Mode 4 Half-Stack (4 speaker matached Slant Cab) > Direct out of the Mode Pre into PT HD interface (then additional post plug-in processing).

Mic's on hand:
SM-57
Audio Technica 4060 Tube
Royer R-122
Neumann U-87

Out Board Dynamics Processing
UA 2-610
UA 2 1176
Re-Amp v2

The Room:
20'-x15' w/27' Vaulted celinings and all hardwood floors.

Pleeaaase don't tell us you had all of the gear listed when you tracked the guitar!

Originally Posted by jitterybit

go out of PT into the guitar amp insert. Adjust gain as needed in PT. Re-track the already done guitars through the power amp and cab only. Will save you a ton of time. You can prob blend the direct and mic tracks as well. Just get them aligned. You can also eq in PT to cleanup low end rumble, gate, etc before retracking.

I like this approach!

[jitterybit]

Thanks Aaron. I like to reamp myself. Use a amp sim for monitoring. I'll EQ out to the amp. I can then "search and destroy" pick noise before extra harmonics are added to it, rid low end rumble, quick edits/fades as needed. Sometimes a touch of parallel compression and additional harmonics can help to(PSP vintage warmer+).
Please note, I am talking about high gain fast tempo stuff. Medium gain rock, I'm more likely to track it and forget.