Sonic Farm Creamer vs Neve 1073 vs Avalon 737

[pacific]

I have read the Tape Op magazine review of the Sonic Farm Creamer preamp.
Looks interesting but I need more clues...
As I'm about to invest into my main all-around studio preamp, I wonder if
anyone has
tried it or compared it to known stuff like Neve 1073 or Avalon 737?
I need something that excels as both vocal and instrumental preamp, drums
and acoustic guitars being the most frequent applications. I also do a lot
of direct bass recording. I'm sort of looking for the best possible
Swiss Army knife...

[kbshearer]

Well, I'm just giving you more of the same, since I'm the guy who wrote that review...but I might be able to shed some additional light on that question. While I haven't compared it to the Avalon, I have compared it to the completely modded Chameleon Labs 7602...which is similar to the 1073. The 1073 sounds more focused, but somewhat smaller than the Sonic Farm. While 1073's are fantastic, the Sonic Farm may have more character options. You can use a xformer output, or electronically balanced. You can use the tube in pentode or triode mode. You can change the input impeadance. You can gain of the transformer and/or the tube stage. So...If you specifically need the cool tone of the Neve, then that's what you need....but the Sonic Farm has more available colors.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[RFrommann]

Same situation here: Looking for a preamp for my new (old) UM57 to record Soul/Rock female vocals as well as serving for my stereo pair of KM 140 for acoustic guitar and choir.
Is the creamer a good investment, if you are looking for a preamp with colour?
The reviews sound interesting, but it is still a lot a money for a not so well known brand, especially if you want to sell it later for some reason. I was also thinking about getting a BAE 1073MP or a UA 610 MK II.
Anybody here,who can talk about his experience with the Creamer?
I would have to buy it without the chance of testing it before, because there is no distributor for sonic farm here in germany.


Ronald Frommann
Hamburg, Germany

[pacific]

Thanks a lot!

[Bowener]

A few months back, I purchased the very first Creamer Plus for my studio. I was a little dubious at first, as I too had some trepidation about the lack of "brand name recognition". Fortunately, I live in the same city as the Creamer's designer, and he was kind enough to come to my studio to give me a demo in person. We set up a little preamp "shootout", similar to the video on Sonic Farm's website, and Boris (the designer) nearly had to pry it from my fingers by the time the demo was done! Simply put, this thing is quite unbelievable, and in my humble opinion, an excellent value for the money, as to my ears, it outperforms units at two or three times the price. While the 1073 is undeniably awesome, the Creamer has equally magnificent headroom, fantastic transient response, and superior tonal variability. When my Creamer Plus arrived, I was in the process of mastering a jazz album, and I used the line inputs on the Plus to warm up the tracks. My client was thrilled with the results, to say the least. It's now my "go to" unit for vocals, upright bass, guitars, and pretty much everything. I had a cellist in last month, and after being exposed to the Creamer, he immediately purchased one if that tells you anything.
So yes, I understand that it can a little terrifying to spend a couple of thousand dollars on something that is an unkown quantity. Hopefully my experience will diminish your fears a little bit. I know from talking to Boris that every single engineer he's taken this unit to has been reluctant to return it. He's just returned from a trip to Europe, where the engineers at the venerable Abbey Road gave it a solid thumbs up. I could go on, but I urge you to ignore your brand preconceptions and let your ears be the judge. I strongly believe that once this unit gets reviewed some more, and peer concensus grows, the Creamer will take its place among the pantheon of greats.

[Baz]

I've used one in a pretty extensive shootout against a few different pre's and was intrigued by it. The owner actually has 2 and is quite fond of them. I would have loved to have had a chance to audition it on more sources, as for our test, I only heard it on Flamenco guitar and bass DI.

In the case of this shootout, we had it up with an STT-1 Origin and Forrsell SMP and for my tastes at least and on this particular instrument, the Forrsell was simply the clear "winner". It just handled the transients much faster and seemed to capture more depth and detail. But, as I said, I'd sure like to try it on other instruments, namely e-guitar and vocals.

[Rod Malkin]

For pres, I’ve got a couple of Creamers, LA610, Millenia STT, Avalon 737, Focusrite ISA 110 reissue, Forsell, LaFont … and have done quite a few shootouts with the Creamer with other pres including BAE, Gordon, Pendulum, Fearn, Martech, Neve 1272…. Am planning to test with a 1073 vintage, and 1081 AMS Neve next week

Mikes used included: Neuman: M149, U87, km184, 140 AKG 451, 460, Sanken cu 41, Gefell UM900, DPA 4011, Lawson 47, Sound Delux 251, Dave Thomas Advanced Audio mics(C12,414, 47tube, 47fet)

So far, tests indicate, the Creamer, with its 'sound' and versatility of eq, pentode/triode, three transformer types etc., is:


· “Best” (recognizing all the variables, caveats, extenuating circumstances, etc. that make this very subjective):
§ for very dynamic, transient rich things like percussion, and Flamenco guitar (my instrument),… Nothing else (except Forsell, and Martech in some circumstances) seems to come as close to keeping all the details, and be big, rich, warm musical, e.g. the way e.g. my guitar was meant to sound… using mikes like DPA, Gefell, M149 or whatever … I generally use the Pentode setting
§ For Bass… yikes!!! my Fender ‘P’ bass sounds alive and ‘natural’ … stands out over other pres I own,


· in the upper league:
§ for vocals: I like it with the Pentode setting and ‘iron’ transformer… the Creamer has ‘iron’, ‘nickle/iron” and ‘nickel’ transformers… ranging from very coloured to mild…: The ‘iron’ is amazing for vocals, and puts it right with the Fearn, Martech, Neve 1272, BAE which are the best vocal pres identified so far, to my taste. Each of these 4 pres has its advantages etc. but all, like the Creamer, are big, detailed, full of substance and character …. I would recommend purchasing with the iron tranformers
§ other sources – e.g. tried flute very nice!

Given the tests so far, its likely, my desert island pre would be the Creamer… several preamps in one, as it has so many settings e.g. using it in Triode makes it more ‘natural’ (to my ears) and works for certain mics and sources better. Pentode is perhaps more polished and mojo-ish , and then there are the tranformers and eq settings… The transient detail from the Creamer define its depth and ‘soul’, while keeping big, substantial and smooth… pretty ideal! Ole!!


To the Love that gives us Sonic Beauty!

[RFrommann]

Thanks for all these impressions, that helps a lot. I would love to hear the results of the shootout with the 1073.
Best regards
Ronald Frommann
Hamburg

[dabigfrog]

sonic farm website has been hacked..... can't wait to find more info on the creamer.

[ztjangle]

Hi everybody, this is Zoran from Sonic Farm Audio.

Just an update for all the folks who have been trying to access out website.
It was under a malicious attack yesterday (Oct. 3rd).
Please be patient, we're working to restore everything to its proper working order.

Thanks a lot for your interest in Sonic Farm products.

[ztjangle]

Many sites attacked at our host; we're back in operation but may be switching web-hosting provider.
We apologize for inconvenience.
For any personal messages please use the contact box on our site since my browser eats up all pop-up windows.

--Zoran T/ Sonic Farm Audio

[burke111]

I have used the Creamer extensively for a variety of applications, and I can easily say that it outshines everything.

It is very versatile and competes with the Avalon or 1073 no problem. The Creamers aren't cheap, but you will likely get rid of a bunch of pre amps when you own one of these. Very well made, all quality parts, no cutting corners ANYWHERE. These things are bulletproof.

They are making a Tube Di box that I would also like to get my hands on. Waiting for my wife to release my "allowance".

=)

[McDingus]

Originally Posted by burke111

I have used the Creamer extensively for a variety of applications, and I can easily say that it outshines everything.

Comments like this make my head hurt...

Outshines everything?

Riiiiiiight.

All that Fearn crap, Neve crap, API crap, Hardy crap, GML crap, EAR crap, Forssell crap, Buzz crap, Thermionic crap, etc.

[frasands]

Hi guys, last year I finished my schooling in music technology and wanted to invest in a good quality pre and had decided to go the ua 6176 channel strip. They used it a lot at the studio I interned at. Then one day I stumbled across the creamer shout out and when I heard it up against the chandler tg2/ ua 610 and sytek mpx4a I was amazed at how it seemed to outshine them. Needless to say I bought a creamer. It is so diverse in the with the triode and pentdoe tube modes. It being a dual channel was another reason I chose it over the channel strip. If you have a chance have a listen. It is a very well built and crafted piece of gear.

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by McDingus

Comments like this make my head hurt...

Outshines everything?

Riiiiiiight.

All that Fearn crap, Neve crap, API crap, Hardy crap, GML crap, EAR crap, Forssell crap, Buzz crap, Thermionic crap, etc.

+100 so true

[Boots]

The Creamer (standard, I have yet to test a 'Plus' model) is my absolute go to for drum overheads. Its made up a high percentage of my overall drum sound, the times I've used it. I've demoed the unit in two different rooms that I work out of, regularly, both times substituting The Creamer for my usual overhead pres. Generally either the Chandler TG2, Vintech 473, or vintage API. I was particularly surprised that I preferred the Creamer to the API stuff as I developed my ears on an old API console and am obsessed with its characteristics.

Anyway, it wasn't a meticulous AB because I was impacted by the difference right away. Being familiar with the rooms, same drummer, similar respective setups for each room, I was seriously and pleasantly surprised the first time I plugged this in. As mentioned previously, you have great colours available when using this unit, and overall, my ears perceive a (very easily achieved), rich and lively sound. Piano, cello and vocals also went through this little guy with minimal processing and I was very satisfied.

The Creamer DI is going to be my next purchase. Of the two bass players I put through it, one thanked me profusely and the other bought it right in the studio.

Those are my $0.02, hope that helps. I won't gush, but I can't say enough good things about this piece. I want one.

[burke111]

Yes. I stand by my comment. I meant what I wrote.

I have been engineering for 25 years and have not heard a better preamp. I have multi-platinum album credits. I don't work for Creamer. The thing is versatile and sounds simply amazing. I normally work on an API console and have tried pretty much all the classic and boutique preamps including building a Seventh Circle with several different preamps. In my opinion the Creamer is the best sounding preamp I have heard. Open her up and you will see all full quality parts and craftsmanship. Too often, accountants compromise the design. I feel that offshore manufacturing has really hurt the audio industry.

Try one for yourself, and share your findings.

[doctorboss]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Had to chime in for the Creamer. In the interest of full disclosure I worked with Boris as he was designing the preamp, he asked my opinion every step of the way: "Which functions do you need in the perfect preamp? What colour scheme do you prefer?..." At the time, although I knew that Boris was an uncompromising audio perfectionist I didn't know the Creamer would turn out as amazing as it is. My studio also recorded a video of the preamp shootout with the Chandler, UA 610 and Sytek. See it and download the audio here.

I truly believe this to be the greatest reasonably priced preamp an engineer could own. The number of tones and colours available through all of the options make it the "swiss army" preamp the OP seeks. I've used it in studios with Harrison, SSL, API and Neve preamps available to me and have still ended up using the Creamer on my most coveted of signals. Drum overheads, grand piano, acoustic guitar, as well as running my mix through the Plus model.

Obviously it sounds like I'm working for the company but the truth is that Boris has challenged me to use it in every situation and offer him my unbiased opinion. I've tried to find faults, or a situation where it doesn't quite measure up because I know that he's the kind of guy who will tweak anything he can to make it better, but I just haven't been able to.

There are a few things in life that I truly love. Things that I think will help fulfill any human's life, that I don't mind gushing over at every opportunity. Included in this list: Quinoa, Islay Scotches, Dark Chocolate, Vegetable Gardening and the Creamer.

[bpalace]

I'm new to this forum but I wanted to also add my two cents worth regarding the Creamer. First off, I always like an opportunity to meet the inventor of a new product and be able to deal directly with them, which I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to do in this case. I have had the pleasure of using one of these units for the past few weeks and I would definitely rate it right up there with any other preamps I have used in the past (api, neve, focusrite, avalon, ua, manley etc...) and in many cases have found it to be more versatile due to the fact that it can run in triode or pentode modes and has gain stages everywhere enabling me to introduce the exact amount of character that I desire for a particular situation while maintaining an overall clarity and presence. The instrument input is simply the best I've ever heard - it made my bass and acoustic d.i. sound amazing. The only problem I have now is how to find a way to not give it back....

[McDingus]

Originally Posted by burke111

Yes. I stand by my comment. I meant what I wrote.

I have been engineering for 25 years and have not heard a better preamp. I have multi-platinum album credits.

Then you should know better than to claim ONE thing is best for everything. Its just not true. But Im not here to troll the preamp- Im sure it sounds great. This thread has just gotten hard to stomach.

Its the blanket statements and multiple ONE post posters claiming this changed their life that makes this thread read like an infomercial.

To discount every other preamp made is literally ridiculous. And to debate otherwise is just as ridiculous.

Your post (and many others) reads like a commercial. And apparently you made platinum records without it...

[joninc]

i just had the creamer and the DI for a week to demo in my studio and was very impressed. it holds it's own very well against a bunch of other nice pres (great river, tg2, germanium, 610 etc). i wish i had more time to try it on some other sources but it sounded great paired with condenser on acoustic guitar.

as mentioned, this thing has tons of tone options. if i were starting from scratch i would seriously consider starting with this as it covers so many basses and offers a lot of different sounds.

possibly the best of all though is their DI - an amazing bass di. literally humongous round bassiness. a great bass player i know in town just sold his Reddi to get one after trying it out. it's a really really great di.

[kbshearer]

Originally Posted by McDingus

Then you should know better than to claim ONE thing is best for everything. Its just not true. But Im not here to troll the preamp- Im sure it sounds great. This thread has just gotten hard to stomach.

Its the blanket statements and multiple ONE post posters claiming this changed their life that makes this thread read like an infomercial.

To discount every other preamp made is literally ridiculous. And to debate otherwise is just as ridiculous.

Your post (and many others) reads like a commercial. And apparently you made platinum records without it...

Not sure why this bothers you so much. I don't see anyone discounting the other preamps. I do see some people sharing an opinion that they prefer the Sonic Farm. This does not take away from anything else. I don't see anyone getting in a flap from saying that they prefer to track most things through a V76 or a 1073. Well, here's a new preamp (so it can't be good) that truly does have more tonal options than many of the mentioned brands. On top of that, it sounds really good. For some, that may make it their preferred choice. You might actually listen to this thing before calling people's take on it ridiculous.

Sorry if it sounds like an commercial. It's a product that is worth getting excited about. It just doesn't say Neve, API, or Telefunken. I also compared this pre to many other well known brands. It scored very well.

The cheap shot about making Platinum records doesn't help much either. I also made platinum records without it. They would have been slightly better if I had HAD this option for a preamp, however.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[crewstudios]

The point of the thread is to pass our opinions on to the OP.

I was given the opportunity to test a Creamer and a creamer Plus during the final stages of development. The amount of R&D that went into this product is astounding. Boris is very careful to get as many opinions from as many people as possible to make sure that he is making a product that is both versatile and of high quality.

I tried it out on a variety of different instruments and put it up against a number of other "known" preamps.

In some applications it out-did the known pres, and in others it didn't. It's all a matter of opinion, and what you're looking for.

Personally, I loved the versatility. Having the option of transformer vs. SS, 3 different options of transformers, selectable input impedance, triode vs. pentode, transformer gain step ups, and eq options make it extremely flexible. And the headroom...wow.

The OP asked our opinion on a "main all-around studio preamp" for vocals, acoustic guitar and drums. I have made it work beautifully on all of these applications.

While I haven't put it up against a 1073 or a 737 specifically, I'd highly recommend this as an all around pre. I will say though that it's much more coloured than a 737. If that's what you want you might look elsewhere. But I like character in my tones.

IMO...best option for the money if you're looking for a workhorse. We bought one before Boris and Zoran came out with the Creamer Plus. Wish I had that option then, because I'd take the Creamer Plus over the Creamer any day. Use it to warm up anything. Even tried it across the output of an ITB mix and was pleased.

[max sound]

I have used the Creamer Plus and found it to provide a unique musical sound. It added a nice sheen to the instruments that were recorded on the last album I engineered Walking Man by Greg Drummond.(Greg Drummond Music) Check out the song 'Stand'. Every track was recorded with the Creamer Plus. Highly recommended.

[burke111]

Originally Posted by McDingus

Then you should know better than to claim ONE thing is best for everything. Its just not true. But Im not here to troll the preamp- Im sure it sounds great. This thread has just gotten hard to stomach.

Its the blanket statements and multiple ONE post posters claiming this changed their life that makes this thread read like an infomercial.

To discount every other preamp made is literally ridiculous. And to debate otherwise is just as ridiculous.

Your post (and many others) reads like a commercial. And apparently you made platinum records without it...

I understand your point of view. I don't expect anyone other than people who have used the Creamer to believe me. The thing is VERSATILE and likely the best all around preamp out there. This is not an infomercial, it is my opinion. Try one for yourself and then post here.

I won't use most Neves, they are super inconsistant between each other sound wise and require so much maintenance. The Avalon...it is not my preference.

As for platinum records, this is anyone's guess. I have worked on records with 6 figure budgets that did nothing and records done for less than $20k that were big hits. The engineers don't mattter here, it is about who represents you. Very few "regular" people can tell the difference anyway.

I should do a Youtube video with the Creamer on a scope, and compare it to other preamps. Where most preamps start to die is high gain situations, this thing has serious head room. Personally we were shocked.

But again, I don't expect anyone to believe me, try it for yourself.

[pacific]

Thanks people, thank you all! I think I'll take that risk; I'm buyin' a
Creamer+!
P.S. Gentlemen, let's not forget music is our passion...so no ill energy
needed.
Ciao tutti!

[LiveGuy]

We are a live music venue with a DM2000 console supplemented with 24 channels of OctoPre A/D, and a nice Meyer speaker system - very clean and crisp overall. Boris asked me to try the Liner version of the Creamer -this is an ultra-simple tube line driver, and I inserted it between console and all the speaker processing. Instant gratification! No big changes, just enough warm-up to make all the program material that much nicer.

Then I used the Creamer+ with matched 414's in a direct to stereo recording of a 60 musician concert band - lots of dynamic range - tried all the variations of triode/pentode and output configurations - everything worked as described - quickly found a "favorite" combo - the result was as expected - in triode mode with transformer output, the digital master sounded like I had done it on tape and pressed it on vinyl. As I am an old guy with old ears, this was good.

To sum up - Boris' gear appears to do exactly what he says it will - if that's what you need, you'll get it.

Cheers, all.

[Brett 123]

So many people with with less than 10 posts all loving one pre amp when the thread is about comparing three makes me suspicious . Kind of like an advert ?

[PoeticIntensity]

Is it just me, or has sonicfarm.com been down with a database connection error for the past two weeks or so? Anyone know what's going on with their website?

[Baz]

Originally Posted by PoeticIntensity

Is it just me, or has sonicfarm.com been down with a database connection error for the past two weeks or so? Anyone know what's going on with their website?

No it's not just you. As a local guy who personally knows a chap who apparently is committing to 6 more ch's of this product and good for him but I wouldn't feel comfortable at all in ordering from them based on the dead website (life blood of business these days) it feels like an OSA site or something.

Maybe its cool,dunno, as I only had limited experience with their gear but for all the peeps that said it's "cheap" well, $2600+ for 2chs is stupid expensive in my books and unless you're Dave Hill, who I know is always around to call direct, I'm not comfortable with dropping this kinda cash on the product unless I know they're well established and gonna be around for awhile.

And while I'm sure these people coming out of the woodwork supporting The Creamer are in fact legit, the simple fact of the internet and message boards is that regardless, it's looks like BS. Sorry. TONS of gush going on about 1000's of other products here by ppl with 1000 + posts and all these 1-2 post posters on this.. It's simply a fact that can't be denied. Again, not saying it isn't legit but it sure looks poor for someone promoting a new product.

my 2db