Sonic Farm Creamer vs Neve 1073 vs Avalon 737

[Jschwake]

Originally Posted by Baz

No it's not just you. As a local guy who personally knows a chap who apparently is committing to 6 more ch's of this product and good for him but I wouldn't feel comfortable at all in ordering from them based on the dead website (life blood of business these days) it feels like an OSA site or something.

Maybe its cool,dunno, as I only had limited experience with their gear but for all the peeps that said it's "cheap" well, $2600+ for 2chs is stupid expensive in my books and unless you're Dave Hill, who I know is always around to call direct, I'm not comfortable with dropping this kinda cash on the product unless I know they're well established and gonna be around for awhile.

And while I'm sure these people coming out of the woodwork supporting The Creamer are in fact legit, the simple fact of the internet and message boards is that regardless, it's looks like BS. Sorry. TONS of gush going on about 1000's of other products here by ppl with 1000 + posts and all these 1-2 post posters on this.. It's simply a fact that can't be denied. Again, not saying it isn't legit but it sure looks poor for someone promoting a new product.

my 2db

Hey,

Sonic Farm. My advice would be to have an outlet for sales... your website is obviously not up and running. I have no idea (as do others) how to buy this pre-amp. My thoughts are to throw them up on ebay or Amazon in the mean time. The product is obviously great... we just need it available.

[kbshearer]

Originally Posted by Baz

And while I'm sure these people coming out of the woodwork supporting The Creamer are in fact legit, the simple fact of the internet and message boards is that regardless, it's looks like BS. Sorry. TONS of gush going on about 1000's of other products here by ppl with 1000 + posts and all these 1-2 post posters on this.. It's simply a fact that can't be denied. Again, not saying it isn't legit but it sure looks poor for someone promoting a new product.

my 2db

Good lord...I've hands my hands on the effin preamp. I can send you pitcures of me using it in my studio. I found it to be THAT GOOD. I have no damned affiliation or relationship with Sonic Farm. The comments of others on this thread are consistent with my experience. Yes, they should have a better support and sales network, and their website should work. I can't speak to that. But their preamp is wonderful. Try not to let it bother you.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[Baz]

Originally Posted by kbshearer

Good lord...I've hands my hands on the effin preamp. I can send you pitcures of me using it in my studio. I found it to be THAT GOOD. I have no damned affiliation or relationship with Sonic Farm. The comments of others on this thread are consistent with my experience. Yes, they should have a better support and sales network, and their website should work. I can't speak to that. But their preamp is wonderful. Try not to let it bother you.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

No need to bring the Lord into it

I've actually had my f'n hands on the preamp also as I've stated in any post I've made in respect to it. I've also stated that I'm a little indifferent to it as I simply haven't tried it on enough sources to form an honest, meaningful opinion. On what I did hear on, I found it to be OK.

My last response that you quoted was mostly based on the fact that for this kind of money I want to know I'm dealing with someone who's going to be around for awhile.That's all and seeing I was responding to another guys post more or less commenting on the same thing... Once again, I'm happy everyone that's uses it loves it and as a form of support for this small 2 man operation, maybe more of you could spread the word and help the guys out

[kbshearer]

Originally Posted by Baz

No need to bring the Lord into it

I've actually had my f'n hands on the preamp also as I've stated in any post I've made in respect to it. I've also stated that I'm a little indifferent to it as I simply haven't tried it on enough sources to form an honest, meaningful opinion. On what I did hear on, I found it to be OK.

My last response that you quoted was mostly based on the fact that for this kind of money I want to know I'm dealing with someone who's going to be around for awhile.That's all and seeing I was responding to another guys post more or less ommenting on the same thing... Once again, I'm happy everyone that's uses it loves it and as a form of support for this small 2 man operation, maybe more of you could spread the word and help the guys out

Baz,

Yeah...I know....My apologies for the intensity of that....have you ever reacted to something and then later tried to figure out why? It must have been something I ate....

I agree. It's not comforting that they are totally unreachable right now. Actually, I don't know if they are, I haven't tried calling. Not that I have a number for them. Maybe I could check the website...oh wait....no I can't.

Again, sorry.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[Baz]

Actually, their site is back up, so hopefully all of this is now moot

[Baz]

Had a chance to hear a little more stuff from the Creamer in direct comparison to some other extremely highend mic amps and I'm starting to warm up to them a little more. In one of the examples I did get to hear a decent bass track done via the DI and it sounded wonderful.

They sure are built nice too

I think in the new year I'm going to try and arrange borrowing one for a couple of days and do some 'real world' testing at my place. As many know, clips are fine and well but you can never truly form a good solid opinion of something until you have it inserted into your own workflow, so to be fair to this product, I should have personally run it through more paces as opposed to forming an opinion based on a rather limited recording session.

[ztjangle]

Hi fellow gearslutz, this is Zoran from Sonic Farm.

Yes, the website was down for about half a day. Sorry about that. We migrated it to a better hosting company and added more protection to it.
Hopefully it won't go down again.
Into the New Year with positive resolutions! For you guys who are local, we invite you to test drive our product in your own studio environment.
Please call us, our contact info is on the site.
Others have a no-question-asked return option on any product they buy.
All 3 products are on the store page now.
Sorry I cannot comment on posts that claim Creamer is overpriced. Please compare its performance to other high end preamps and then decide.
I'm hoping that the Pro Audio Review test, due this Spring, will shed more light on this product.
We wish all of you the happiest and most prosperous 2012!

[How Weird]

Hello!

I just wanted to share my experience with the Sonic Farm Creamer since I've gotten to know it pretty intimately lately.

I've had the privilege of using the Creamer in three very different situations - bed tracks (you Americans call them "basics"), Lead vocals, and inserted on the final mix.

I tracked with it at the Warehouse in Vancouver - up against the Air Neve that they have. (This desk is one of two that Rupert built for George Martin. The mic pre's actually live out in the live room and the gain knobs on the desk are simply a "remote" control of the gain for an amp that's a heck of a lot closer to the mic... but I digress. You can google all this nerdy stuff on your own and you probably already know about it!)

The point is that there is plenty of good gear at the studio and it seemed weird to have the designer there showing me his pre-amp's amongst all that I would ever need.

I used the Creamer on drum overheads, stereo acoustic guitar, and piano while at Warehouse and never once chose the Neve on an A/B. It was so open sounding, but still had a bit of mojo... that little bit of something. I didn't use the transformer output option, though I tried it on everything... but that's because the Neve already had that in spades and I was looking for more clarity, which the Creamer gave in a big way. clear and smooth but with enough harmonic artifacts that it was not ever boring. The pentode or Triode option is super cool, that coupled with the solid state output option or transformer output option gives you 4 distinct sounds in one pre-amp! I love it. I have already got mine on order and it's going to become my "desert island" pre amp.

I also used it at my own studio for the vocal overdubs and tracked vocals directly to my Lavry converters without a stitch of any outboard. (it helps to have a beautiful U-67 on the front end...) Then we used it in line for the mix and on an A/B comparison the creamer definitely added some space and depth to the mix. I farted around with the options on the box and can't remember which one I settled for, but that's a moot point because you'd choose different every time! They all sound good, it's just whatever suits the song. That's the Creamer's strength - it's high fidelity audio with options and a bit (or a lot depending on tube an output mode) of mojo. Choose your own adventure.

This could be a jazz pre amp or a metal pre amp, and anything inbetween. I think the designers did a fantastic job with this. Everyone should buy this. I've used just about all the pre's out there and I was dubious about it being a "tube" pre amp... but I'm sold.

[McDingus]

Originally Posted by kbshearer

Not sure why this bothers you so much. I don't see anyone discounting the other preamps. I do see some people sharing an opinion that they prefer the Sonic Farm. This does not take away from anything else. I don't see anyone getting in a flap from saying that they prefer to track most things through a V76 or a 1073. Well, here's a new preamp (so it can't be good) that truly does have more tonal options than many of the mentioned brands. On top of that, it sounds really good. For some, that may make it their preferred choice. You might actually listen to this thing before calling people's take on it ridiculous.

Sorry if it sounds like an commercial. It's a product that is worth getting excited about. It just doesn't say Neve, API, or Telefunken. I also compared this pre to many other well known brands. It scored very well.

The cheap shot about making Platinum records doesn't help much either. I also made platinum records without it. They would have been slightly better if I had HAD this option for a preamp, however.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

Your posts do not read like anything but a commercial. This thread is being fed by people with single digit posts.... Someone is asking for these guys to come and do that- though Im not saying its you.

Your over the top initial response is ridiculous. Thats the truth. And these posters don't help the sales pitch mentality.

Its a preamp. The marginal difference you claim would make the records noticeably- NOTICEABLY- better reads like malarky to me. I don't need to hear it to know the basis of your comments is unfounded- ANY preamp cannot meet the criteria you've stated. Its not freakin highlander...

Enjoy your tools, but a super bitchen colored hammer won't build a better house.

Im sure its a great preamp, but a holy grail that snubs all others making all previous engineering attemps obsolete? Not even close.

And if you think Im over stating it, then my point is made.

[kbshearer]

Let it go and move on.

[McDingus]

Originally Posted by kbshearer

Let it go and move on.

And you should do the same...

[crippledsound]

I purchased a Creamer Plus with the iron transformer option after hearing my friend's Creamer. I have to say that I do agree with the comments in this thread regarding how great this pre is and how it stacks up to and often blows away the other well known high end pres.

In addition to the Creamer, I own API pres, Ward Beck Pres, and while I plan to hold on to the APIs and possibly the Ward Becks (mostly because of their affordability), I recently sold my BAE 1073MP and my Pendulum Audio MDP-1a because I don't really feel I have a need for them given that I now own the Creamer. While I love both the BAE and the Pendulum, I can get the same type sounds out of my Creamer, and, in many cases I can add elements that I was missing in each of those pres. The Creamer is a seriously amazing pre, and given all of the options available, I feel like owning a Creamer unit is like owning at least four pairs of press rather than just one pair. The differences in tone that I can get when switching between Pentode and Triode mode as well as switching the transformer in and out and playing with all of the EQ options are anything but subtle.

Anyways, just thought I'd chime in after having some hands-on experience with the Creamer. I too am often sceptical about claims stating that "x" piece of gear blows other "y" piece of gear out of the water; but, the Creamer is the first pre I've owned that would tempt me to make such claims.

[Bowener]

I don't want to sound like a commercial, but I won the very first production model of the Creamer Plus (with line inputs), And I was blown away by this thing the very first time I heard it in my little studio. I have a very nice Drawmer 1960 and some decent Focusrite pres, and in a "shoot out" situation, the Creamer just stomped on everything else in my humble collection. Considering it comes in about about half the price of the Drawmer (last time I checked), it's a spectacular bargain. I might appear to be a tad evangelical about htis unit, but after getting to know the designer a bit, I realized that his combination of sincerity, passion, and technical expertise are qualities rarely found in this business. I want to root for the little guy. Boris and company are not a huge concern, and they are not going to get rich off this thing, even though I hope that they do. It's just a really darned good unit at a really respectable price. As I said, after getting to know Boris, I can't help but take the negative comments personally! But enough of my yakkin... Get your hands on one and try it out yourself. Maybe it's not for everyone, but it sure works for me!

[Hamburg58]

Originally Posted by frasands

Hi guys, last year I finished my schooling in music technology and wanted to invest in a good quality pre and had decided to go the ua 6176 channel strip. They used it a lot at the studio I interned at. Then one day I stumbled across the creamer shout out and when I heard it up against the chandler tg2/ ua 610 and sytek mpx4a I was amazed at how it seemed to outshine them. Needless to say I bought a creamer. It is so diverse in the with the triode and pentdoe tube modes. It being a dual channel was another reason I chose it over the channel strip. If you have a chance have a listen. It is a very well built and crafted piece of gear.

Well the 610 is not very impressive to me. It fails in comparison to the older ones. I had a pair of old ones the new ones aren't even worth a shoot out. Love the Chandler stuff though. I'll have to check this pre out!

[Bowener]

"I don't want to sound like a commercial, but I won the very first production model of the Creamer Plus "

I meant to say " I own", not "I won".....

[Rod Malkin]

Now that the dust has settled, after a spate of preamp, microphone, compressor etc. shootouts, lots of equipment rotation purchases/selling over the last few years, I feel a bit clearer on where the Creamer stands in the spectrum - of course IMO as always, as of this date. + sorry for repetition from previous post

My music is flamenco traditional and jazz including vocals, guitar… very natural and percussive, bass fender, and various percussion -- Flamenco footwork, clapping, castanets, etc. Sparse mixes where the quality of each element is important… I am a guitarist, so have my most critical listening for this, with a good monitoring environment including Apogee Symphony I/O converters, dangerous mixer, and Genelec 1032’s.

For studio condenser mics have gravitated to owning
• Large diaphragm - Telefunken 251e (reissue – astonishing all round vocal/instrument mic!), U87ai, M149, CM12, CM414 (x6), CM47tube, CM47 fet, Kel Sparrow,
• Small diaphragm - gefell m300 (x2), dpa 4006/4011/4015,

Other studio condensers mics tried with the creamer and other pres include: km84/140/184, AKG 451/460/C12vr/414, Gefell UM900/UM 930, Sanken cu 41, Lawson tube L-47, Soundelux Elux251, Telefunken U47(reissue),

For pres, have auditioned lots, and of course most are very good, and ‘best’ for certain situations. I currently own Creamers (x 4 -- i.e. 8 channels), Vintage Neve 1064 (same pre as 1073, but slightly different eq), Martech (x2), Gordon (x2), Millenia STT, Lafont (foley) … have a Focusrite ISA 110 reissue, and Forsell smp 500 for sale…. have owned/auditioned LA610, Avalon 737, Portico, Aphex 1100, BAE 1073, Pendulum, Fearn (on my wish list), AMS Neve 1081/dpa , and the following ‘lunchbox’ editions: AMS Neve 1073, API, La Chappelle,

After all this, my thinking on the Creamer, as per previous GS notes, remains… its arguably the moderately priced “desert Island” pre (at $1000 per channel including DI)
… Reasons:
• Vocals – Very good! … ‘better’ than most , and close to Vintage Neve (when in the triode/iron transformer mode , perhaps with a 10% addition of #1 Air if have a Creamer Plus). My desert Island Pre for Vocals only would be Vintage Neve for Neuman mics e.g. U87ai, M149, U47 and the Martech for Telefunken 251e, CM12, 414 etc. These pres are 2-6 times the cost per channel compared to the Creamer.
• Flamenco/Classical Guitar - In the top three, and can be ‘best’ depending on circumstances microphones etc. , with the other two being: Martech (with certain mics) and Gordon (astonishing clarity, reality and detail… but you need to have a very good room circumstance and mic to bring it to perfection, otherwise harsh)
• DI - ‘Best’ for bass guitar… Other DI’s can be good if a more electronic sound is wanted… but for a natural ‘bass’ sound the Creamer is astonishing… esp. with a P-bass… and again, can adjust the tube/tranformers to suit the aesthetic required. Have not tried with electric guitar but have heard good things. Also, am planning to bypass the pots on my P-Bass to go direct from the pickups to the jack, and then the Creamer. Yikes!!! Have not tried the Martech DI. I imagine it would be pretty good as well, but at $700 ish just for the DI attachment , would bring the price per channel to near $3000 with tax… and again would be just one DI sound vs, the several the Creamer provides
• Percussion: Again would put in with the top three… with the other two being: Martech (standard good transients etc.) and Gordon (For any thing metalic, e.g. cymbols, rim shots, this pre is in another league… It was so good for this, at first when I heard the playback I thought someone had switched mics, or changed mic positions etc. as did not even sound like the same recording, compared to the other pres)
• General use, ridiculously flexible with two tube settings, and transformer in/out… is like getting several pres/DI’s in one… I have a portable recording studio (Everything, mics, pres, compressors, eq’s, converters, headphone mixers etc. is in Pelican/Gator cases) , and can record up to 12 high end signals… Having the 8 channels of Creamer, with extra high headroom , quality flexibility of use etc. is very exciting,

Other thoughts:

Recommend people try out the Creamer. Amazing economical high quality audiophile sound, in a flexible format -- change tubes, transformers for Microphones or DI, with the flick of a switch! I like to read personal opinions in GS to get a feel for the types of things I should be listening to, thinking about, raising questions, suggesting opportunities,--- but I shop with my ears. Before I got the Creamers, did extensive listening . Same with the Gordons, …. Interestingly, when Grant sent me the Gordon the first time, I was disappointed and returned it. I was using a lesser mic at the time, and the gyprock room was bad… The Gordon registered this big time…. A year later, better mic/room, …. I’m now a Gordon owner… Anyway, again its certainly worthwhile to check out the Creamer, … and if does not work for your situation, Boris/Zoran will return $$$ no questions asked!

I should clarify Boris and Zoran are now my friends. We are up in Vancouver, Canada, where Boris and Zoran came as refugees from the Bosnian war, to restart their lives and careers … But, I think anyone who is into sonic beauty would be friends with these guys as they are so passionate, natural, friendly and open… and to my mind sonic geniuses!

Sorry to sound like an infomercial. I could edit the above to change the tone a bit but don’t have time … Also, sorry some (all?) of the above could sound kind of over the top supercilious/obnoxious;… again should edit, but hope will be forgiven for shooting from the hip, opinions, with details ….

I kind of like to hear fresh unedited stuff from other GS people… If we stop and edit too much, tying to be safe, can wind up saying almost nothing e.g. we become like those who Gratiano speaks of in the Merchant of Venice :

“I do know of these
that therefore only are reputed wise
for saying nothing; when, I am very sure,
if they should speak, would almost damn those ears,
Which, hearing them, would call their brothers fools. “

Best as sonic friends for us to just say what is on our minds, and for those of us who are inexperienced, be confirmed as fools!!! … Good honest GS fools! …

Other gratuitous (Gratiano-like) comments, re shootouts:

Biggest Negative Surprize - low quality of AMS Neve Lunchbox series, compared to their other products… AMS Neve stuff is really good !!!!, and just a small step down from the priceless vintage stuff; however, their Lunchbox 1073 for example is a full step down… and the DI is especially not in the same league as the others … Not sure if I got a bad one? Actually, in general have not been too happy with some of the the Lunchbox stuff, again just based on limited testing, but have heard as well hardware in the full rack format tends to be better? The Forsell and Api stuff seemed Ok in this format.

Big positive surprise - I have a friend who hates it when I say this,,, But the
Creamer out API’s the API … ( Sorry!) the Creamer in one of its settings sounds so very close, and yet with more transients and detail, life etc. And this is not putting down the API sound which is great, and is obviously, a good Lunchbox purchase (as is the great API eq!!!).

What the Creamer cannot do! … not much, but it does not travel to the starkly transparent edge of the spectrum where the Gordon rules, nor to the very tubey end of the spectrum where Fearn rules.

‘Tried and true’ does not necessarily mean better… new guys like Boris and Zoran have an advantage in having something to shoot for, to try and improve on. My favorite is the regular Creamer, $1000 per channel. I also have a Creamer Plus, with the line driver and extra EQ, but find I don’t need the line driver …. might be useful for people recording with lesser gear, or without a lot of analogue hardware, who want to ‘warm things up’ a bit…?

Anyway, to God’s Love that gives us Boris, Zoran, and their
Artful Sonic Swiss Knife!

[AB3]

If I am recording a Steinway Grand - I want a clean pre and clean mics.
The forssell is fantastic for that. So would be a GML, Buzz Audio and Benchmark (I mentioned Benchmark because I am shamelessly selling one in the classifieds
But seriously, I do not know why someone would want a "color" pre on a rich grand piano with complex harmonics.

[AB3]

You are absolutely correct Dave - it is personal preference. I should have been clear (no pun intended) that my post is my own personal preference. I like an awesome grand piano to be recorded with the cleanest of mics and pres. Whereas I like a lot of color in vocals, and certain instruments. It is just my thing.

And it depends on the mix. In the case of my grand piano, it is so rich, that if I use a rich mic and rich pre - I cannot get it to cut through a dense mix very well.

But it is all about personal preference and the sound one wants (and even the sounds to be mixed with it.)

I would love to hear the creamer, BTW.

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

I like the sound of the colored Fearn. i like the Forssell/clean too. I'm trying different stuff out. In the end it's personal preference.