Glyn Johns Mic Set-Up

[RedWallStudio]

I'm recording a really excellent drummer this Saturday and am considering breaking away from my traditional mic set-up (Kick, Sub Kick, Snare, Undersnare, Toms [x3], Stereo OH, Mono Room and going with the Glyn Johns 4 Mic Set up. I'd like to add a room mic and possibly a second kick mic... am I defeating the purpose of the classic Glyn Johns set up, or have any of you found that a few additional mics gives more flexibility. Have you used any spot mics elsewhere on this set-up (toms or hi-hat?). Curious to see if there are any Glyn Johns hybrid set-ups that have worked well.

BTW - The music style for these songs is country-rock ala 70's era Stones.. hence the idea of going with the G.J. set-up. And I'm going direct to Tape.

[7rojo7]

you'll miss the extra whomp on the snare, kik and toms. Which GJ setup? he used many. Country needs a tight kik, while the other will give you a good boom, country needs a hh mic like reggae. GJ works best if everything is panned to mono, I like mono drums but others may not. room mic with a triplet delay is a classic but probably not for country, which needs accuracy and not so much fantasy. if you want mono then an omni over will probably cover the room too. Your normal setup plus a set of room mics (depends on the roomand what effect you want.
If you're going to overdub a lot you're going to need the clarity of more mics, If it's a sparse arrangement then the minimal setup might sound more natural

[zinzin]

i think most people augment the original 2-mic GJ setup with at least 2 more: snare and kick.
this way you are way more flexible in the mix. if the room is ok sounding than of course a room mic would be nice as well.

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

you'll miss the extra whomp on the snare, kik and toms. Which GJ setup? he used many. Country needs a tight kik, while the other will give you a good boom, country needs a hh mic like reggae. GJ works best if everything is panned to mono, I like mono drums but others may not. room mic with a triplet delay is a classic but probably not for country, which needs accuracy and not so much fantasy. if you want mono then an omni over will probably cover the room too. Your normal setup plus a set of room mics (depends on the roomand what effect you want.
If you're going to overdub a lot you're going to need the clarity of more mics, If it's a sparse arrangement then the minimal setup might sound more natural

with respect, I disagree totally with the above poster - go with the GJ method - it will get you there.

I currently use GJ and get great results using:

OH's - SDC (Josephson c42's)
Kik - LDC (Rode NT2-a - in a kik tunnel)
Snare - 57
Stereo Room -SDC (Beezneez Lulu's)

I use this setup in full stereo panning on the OH's & Room, with the close mic on the kik and snare pulling in the center to taste.

I think you should just do the basic GJ setup and fill in whatever you feel you need to have a bit more control over. I often will mic the low tom if it is an integral part of the song and I think that I will be adding in another "click" kik mic in the future - I get a real natural deep sound from the LDC out front, but not as much click as I would like)

Is the drummer sounds good, this will sound great, and will be very appropriate for the 70's/stones sound you are after. Awesome imaging / phase relationships with a "full kit as an instrument" sound.

I can post some clips later when I am in the studio if you like...

[RedWallStudio]

Yeah, if you can post some sound samples that would be cool. Was thinking about adding the extra mics and if I don't need them, I can just wipe them. It's my first time using this set-up, so I just want my safety net.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

. Country needs a tight kik, while the other will give you a good boom, country needs a hh mic like reggae.

While this may sometimes be true in the case of modern nashville country (Pop with boots), I think the OP is looking for something different.

Hardtoe has offered some good advice IMO.

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by RedWallStudio

Yeah, if you can post some sound samples that would be cool. Was thinking about adding the extra mics and if I don't need them, I can just wipe them. It's my first time using this set-up, so I just want my safety net.

Ok will do - I wont be in until this afternoon though, so it will be a bit.

And I think it is not a bad idea to track a few extra mics if it's yer first time...

[Hardtoe]

Ok, here is some drums I tracked last night - this is a little more funk material, but the sound is there.

I am including a drums mix as well as all the sections, mic'ed as outlined below:

OH's - SDC (Josephson c42's) Glyn Johns (or maybe recorderman is closer to what I am actually doing)
Kik - LDC (Rode NT2-a - in a kik tunnel)
Snare - 57
Stereo Room -SDC (Beezneez Lulu's)

These are the raw tracks which I would, and will, dirty up some more to get the final mixed kit sound. This type of tracking works really well for me as it creates a realistic spatial basis for the drums which can be modified as needed.

Have Fun.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

room mic with a triplet delay is a classic

Tell me more

[RedWallStudio]

Thanks!! That is definitely the vibe I'm looking for with this session. It sounds like you have a good sounding room... I honestly don't know how my room is going to sound as this is the first time recording in my new home studio. Fingers crossed... I'll post some sound samples once I'm able to bounce them down.

[Hardtoe]

Cool - looking forward to hearing how things go for you.....

[samvrai]

Could someone tell me - how to pan mics in Glynn Johns?
Hard left & hard right?
Thanks!

[Hardtoe]

You can hear the hard LR panning in my OH's example.

For this set-up it works cause the close & room mics help pull things into the middle.

Sometimes I lessen the panning to about 60% or so if it feels too wide for the song.

[RedWallStudio]

The primer that I found on line says 3:00 and 9:00... which I suppose can be slightly misleading considering some desks (like mine) have a pan pot that doesn't rotate 360°. I'm taking it as about 75% of hard left and hard right.

[samvrai]

Thanks!
Hardtoe, i asked because i can't listen to it right now, thanks!

[Rocksoff]

How do you like the SDCs as GJ OHs as opposed to LDCs?

[Hardtoe]

Here are some drums recorded GJ/recorderman style in my studio using a Rode NT2-A LDC overtop with a Rode NT3 MDC on the side.

My room was also much less treated at this point and I was using different convertors, pres, etc., not to mention a different drummer & kit.

I think they can both sound good - in this example it's not even a remotely matched pair (aside from both being Rode, which is a certain sound).

I just happen to like C42's SDC better these days...

[evangelista]

I generally do a "GJ influenced" set-up:

- 3 LDCs (OH GJ style, Front of Kit) equidistant from snare. The Front of Kit mic winds up about a foot to 18" in front of the kick, about 8 inches from the ground.

- Close kick (RE20) and snare (whatever's lying around, 57, re11, at2035, m179, etc.)

- one or two room mics, usually ribbons. Often in blumlein when stereo.

Often, the three LDCs are the only thing in the mix. The close kick and snare are sometimes useful for definition, and the room mics are nice to have for a "size option".

This setup covers a lot of ground for me, and I definitely took my initial inspiration from Mr. Johns.

[Hardtoe]

That sounds like a great technique.

Do you anything you can post so we can check it out?

[RedWallStudio]

I'm thinking about trying the 3 LDC G.J. set-up, but I don't have 3 identical LDCs. I've got 2 AT4050's and a U-87. I'm thinking about putting the 87 out front with the 4050's as the overheads. Anyone see any issue with that?

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by Hardtoe

Ok, here is some drums I tracked last night -

I hear phase issues.

[evangelista]

Originally Posted by Hardtoe

That sounds like a great technique.

Do you anything you can post so we can check it out?

I don't have anything handy, but if you look for

Agathe -La Fleur De L'Aube

or

Ken Silverman Septet - From Emptiness

all the full kit stuff was recorded using the aforementioned technique.

Ivan

[evangelista]

Originally Posted by RedWallStudio

I'm thinking about trying the 3 LDC G.J. set-up, but I don't have 3 identical LDCs. I've got 2 AT4050's and a U-87. I'm thinking about putting the 87 out front with the 4050's as the overheads. Anyone see any issue with that?

That's a great starting point. There's no law that states you have to use matched mics. But, like you, I'd start with using the matched pair for OH and the 87 out front.

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

I hear phase issues.

Anything recorded with more than one mic has what one might consider "phase issues".

I got the drums to sound like I wanted, using the phase relationships.

Care to elaborate?

[Fat Pastor]

Originally Posted by RedWallStudio

I'm thinking about trying the 3 LDC G.J. set-up, but I don't have 3 identical LDCs. I've got 2 AT4050's and a U-87. I'm thinking about putting the 87 out front with the 4050's as the overheads. Anyone see any issue with that?

You should be happy with that. I recently did a session with a similar set up to what you're asking about. 414 over snare, U 195 to the side in a Glyn Johns set up. Beta 52 on the kik beater head, SM7 on the resonant head. 57 on the snare and a U 47 as a room mic slammed thru an 1176. Very tasty sounds, indeed!

[midnightsun]

Three Neuman 149 mics-- Overhead/top, overhead/side, and kic does the trick for me. This requires a well tuned kit and good drummer. Sometimes I will add other mics but this setup gets me 98% of the way there.