Coles 4038 FOK?

[Aaron Miller]

I love the R-121 in front of the kit 4-5 feet out about waist high. Do you think the 4038 offers any sonic advantages? How's it compare in this application?

[turk sanchez]

They are both awesome. I guess it depends on what your going for. I think the Royer is better when you get in closer cause it can take more abuse and seems to have a little more bottom to me. The tone of the 4038 for a "general" kit mic (old school overheads or rooms) is one of my favorites though. I can't say why. I just like the tone and sound. Same thing on guitar amps. Coles sound killer through an api by but the Royer can need another mic or to be pulled back a lot farther to get the tone right. If your going for KICK in your fok then Royer all the way though. My 2 cents.

[ChuckG]

In my opinion, sonically the two are decently similar. I personally like the Coles more for this application. Thought I am a fan of 4038 on everything and anything


I would say it also depends on the room size etc because the Coles seems to like being in bigger rooms much of the time.

Can you do a shootout? That way you know for your exact needs.

[Sofa King]

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

I love the R-121 in front of the kit 4-5 feet out about waist high. Do you think the 4038 offers any sonic advantages? How's it compare in this application?

Yes.
Personally I love the 4038 over the 121 in just about every application.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

I love the R-121 in front of the kit 4-5 feet out about waist high. Do you think the 4038 offers any sonic advantages? How's it compare in this application?

The Coles is fatter sounding to me, [huge. proximity effect] sweeter in the bottom, mids, and WAYYYYY more velvety at the top than the Royer.

One of the best things I have ever heard was a 4038 FOK and two 4040's [or a Coles 4050 Detached] as flanks to the left and right.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

I love the R-121 in front of the kit 4-5 feet out about waist high. Do you think the 4038 offers any sonic advantages? How's it compare in this application?

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

The Coles is fatter sounding to me, [huge. proximity effect] sweeter in the bottom, mids, and WAYYYYY more velvety at the top than the Royer.

Really?

Proximity effect at "4-5 feet"?

You sure about that?

At the end of the day people are going to use the tools they feel enhances their productions... they may know why [which isn't a bad thing], they may not know why [which while not necessarily bad... really isn't good... knowledge is power and all that]...

At the end of the day nobody knows if a 4038 is going to work better for the OP's sense of aesthetic than the R-121... which means it would be in their best interest to give it a shot. Personally I would tend to migrate to any of a bunch of other microphones for that application [not really wild about either the 4038 or 121 for FOK... but that too is my own personal decision that has zero relevance to any other world but my own].

Peace

[Marcocet]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

At the end of the day nobody knows if a 4038 is going to work better for the OP's sense of aesthetic than the R-121... which means it would be in their best interest to give it a shot. Personally I would tend to migrate to any of a bunch of other microphones for that application [not really wild about either the 4038 or 121 for FOK... but that too is my own personal decision that has zero relevance to any other world but my own].

Peace

True, but then why talk about anything on this board? We can only give recommendations based on our own experiences. I know, a lot of people here do it without any real experience or state things so strongly that they're obviously untrue, but this doesn't necessarily seem to be one of those cases.

It also seems that Adam was probably talking about the proximity effect of the microphone in general, not about its specific use four feet away from a kick drum. I know you love to rag Fletcher, but sometimes it seems about as helpful as the people who jabber without knowing a damn thing.

I'm not a fan on ribbons on FOK either, and I've certainly tried both those mics in that position before. Yes, it is absolutely 100% always situation dependent. And no, I don't think it's so ridiculous that it doesn't deserve some discussion.

[Aaron Miller]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

The Coles is fatter sounding to me, [huge. proximity effect] sweeter in the bottom, mids, and WAYYYYY more velvety at the top than the Royer.

One of the best things I have ever heard was a 4038 FOK and two 4040's [or a Coles 4050 Detached] as flanks to the left and right.

Well this sounds promising. I'll have to find a way to try the two side by side one of these days and hear for myself. One of the things I love about the Royer is the mid range punch but in this application I'm usually aiming for huge kick sounds with softer upper mids and highs.

The other great advantage of another mic for FOK would be that I could keep the 121 on my guitar cabs which is where I have it most of the time.

[PaulOcchialini]

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

I love the R-121 in front of the kit 4-5 feet out about waist high. Do you think the 4038 offers any sonic advantages? How's it compare in this application?

Apples and oranges

[beats workin']

Wait a minute!
Not a fan of ribbons on front of kit?
Man, do I love a 44 in front with a pair of 67s as overs. Add a D12 on kick and I'm done.
44 takes a squishing from a TG1 with such pleasure. Whoa!

(my .02 on the 121/4038 question?. I've had both for a long time and I'm not sure if there's anything I'd choose the 121 over the coles for)
there. I said it.

david

[Marcocet]

Originally Posted by beats workin'

Wait a minute!
Not a fan of ribbons on front of kit?

Front of kick, not kit. Close-micing the bass drum.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Marcocet

It also seems that Adam was probably talking about the proximity effect of the microphone in general, not about its specific use four feet away from a kick drum. I know you love to rag Fletcher, but sometimes it seems about as helpful as the people who jabber without knowing a damn thing.

I suppose yours could be one interpretation of the statement... however irrelevant that statement is to the conversation at hand. I interpreted Adam's words at their face value... Adam was my assistant for a few years and I kinda know what he learned for real, and what he kinda knows on a buzzword level -- hence my reticence to interpret his statement in the same manner you interpreted his statement.

I don't "love to rag"... but I really don't suffer bullshit and the spreading of non-factual myth stuff as well as others who frequent this board... character flaw I suppose... but hey, if you wanna roll with the 4038 is "fatter" sounding [proximity effect] please don't let me stand in your way... but please realize that at a distance of 4-5 ft. "proximity effect" is in play at about the same level as the "infield fly rule"... but this is Gearslutz [insert Dave Hecht quote here] which is fine by many [just not so much by moi].

Peace

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

I suppose yours could be one interpretation of the statement... however irrelevant that statement is to the conversation at hand. I interpreted Adam's words at their face value... Adam was my assistant for a few years and I kinda know what he learned for real, and what he kinda knows on a buzzword level -- hence my reticence to interpret his statement in the same manner you interpreted his statement.

I don't "love to rag"... but I really don't suffer bullshit and the spreading of non-factual myth stuff as well as others who frequent this board... character flaw I suppose... but hey, if you wanna roll with the 4038 is "fatter" sounding [proximity effect] please don't let me stand in your way... but please realize that at a distance of 4-5 ft. "proximity effect" is in play at about the same level as the "infield fly rule"... but this is Gearslutz [insert Dave Hecht quote here] which is fine by many [just not so much by moi].

Peace

All posts should be taken at face value, and if you don't approve you should leave it where you found it, because I will not stand for your childish pecking against my character, or whatever you think you know about me. I move my mic's around the source...and my statement was in regard to the microphone itself, not used at 4-5 feet in some unknown location on some unknown drum kit.

And, if your going to bring up what you think "you learned me", CNF <=hype>, while I was assisting you, and helping you as much as my good conscious would ever allow, I should say I've seen YOU blow the ribbon on plenty of 4038's with audio carelessness and plenty of other things I would never do. So thanks for showing me WHAT NOT TO DO. Give yourself a round of applause....