denny
Thread Starter
#1
27th March 2006
Old 27th March 2006
  #1
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
mics for my drums

I have Yamaha Recording Custom drums with Yamaha Maple custom snare MDS-104, cymbals Paiste, Zildjian.

I have a mic:
Neumann U87, UM57, CMV563-2x, KM86-2x, KM84-2x
AKG C12A-2x, D112, D190, D3500
Sennheiser MD421-3x
Shure SM57

I have 8 channels AD convertor.
I play Rock/Funk

Here is my idea:
1. track - bass drum - AKG D112
2. track - snare - Neumann U87
3. track - overhead L - AKG C12A
4. track - overhead R - AKG C12A
5. track - Tom Hi - Sennheiser MD421
6. track - Tom Lo - Sennheiser MD421
7. track - Floor tom - Sennheiser MD421
8. track - Hi-hat - Neumann KM84

What's the best configuration for my drums?
#2
27th March 2006
Old 27th March 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Rednose's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by denny
I have Yamaha Recording Custom drums with Yamaha Maple custom snare MDS-104, cymbals Paiste, Zildjian.

I have a mic:
Neumann U87, UM57, CMV563-2x, KM86-2x, KM84-2x
AKG C12A-2x, D112, D190, D3500
Sennheiser MD421-3x
Shure SM57

I have 8 channels AD convertor.
I play Rock/Funk

Here is my idea:
1. track - bass drum - AKG D112
2. track - snare - Neumann U87
3. track - overhead L - AKG C12A
4. track - overhead R - AKG C12A
5. track - Tom Hi - Sennheiser MD421
6. track - Tom Lo - Sennheiser MD421
7. track - Floor tom - Sennheiser MD421
8. track - Hi-hat - Neumann KM84

What's the best configuration for my drums?
Belive it or not, I've had some really good results with the Audix stuff.
The D 6 is a really nice kick drum mic.
I have the D112 and its great for hard rock/heavy metal.
The D6 has a rounder tone, less click, great for alot of genres.
The mics you listed are great, so either way.
I would personally save some money for some nice outboard gear like eq, compressors.
Matt
#3
27th March 2006
Old 27th March 2006
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Doublehelix's Avatar
 

If you already own that gear, then I would say that you have covered it pretty well! Looks good.
denny
Thread Starter
#4
27th March 2006
Old 27th March 2006
  #4
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
I have this possibility:
for toms Sennheiser MD421 / Neumann km86

for snare Neumann U87/Shure SM57/ Neumann km86/84...

I hava any time for testing.

I need a certainty
#5
27th March 2006
Old 27th March 2006
  #5
Gear nut
 

I've never been in a position to mic a snare with a U87. I have only ever tracked vocals with one. I'm not sure if there's a suitable polar pattern on the mic for snare apps. I think it's only cardioid, figure 8 and omni. Those will just leave you with alot of bleed to deal with. You might be better off going for a for the SM57. Bland yes, but it works for me. A well tuned drum and a SM57, if you can't make it work, there is bigger problems at hand. Don't know the pattern on KM's, but I think you just need something tight for neat, phase coherent drum tracks

Yeah, the D6 is alot nicer than the D112 for mine. Also a Beyer M88 never let me down. You might even want to try a boundary mic (901?) for kick.

Hope it works for you

C
#6
27th March 2006
Old 27th March 2006
  #6
Gear addict
 

Heres my take on it,

The KM84 (With the PAD) is an amazing snare mic, smokes the 57, so use it)

BD: D112 (give it a couple inches off the head)
Sn:KM84(Give it a couple of inches off the head, pointing across the snare, rather than down into it)
Tom I: KM86 in fig-8 (Pointing across, rather than down into the tom, fig-8 helps isolate from cymbals)
Tom 2:KM86 in fig-8(same as above)
HH:KM84
Front of kit: UM57 (Find the most balanced spot directly infront of the kit, and place it there, tom height)
Ohs:C-12a x2 (I personally prefer the Glyn Johns/recorderman setup for these)
Room:CMV 563 x2 (placed depending on taste)

Thats 9 channels, if you only have 8, skip the HH mic.

Accurate placement, regarding sound, leak and phase is everything.

Balanced cerrectly this setup should be able to give you a killer sound without much processing.
#7
27th March 2006
Old 27th March 2006
  #7
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by denny
I have Yamaha Recording Custom drums with Yamaha Maple custom snare MDS-104, cymbals Paiste, Zildjian.

I have a mic:
Neumann U87, UM57, CMV563-2x, KM86-2x, KM84-2x
AKG C12A-2x, D112, D190, D3500
Sennheiser MD421-3x
Shure SM57

I have 8 channels AD convertor.
I play Rock/Funk

Here is my idea:
1. track - bass drum - AKG D112
2. track - snare - Neumann U87
3. track - overhead L - AKG C12A
4. track - overhead R - AKG C12A
5. track - Tom Hi - Sennheiser MD421
6. track - Tom Lo - Sennheiser MD421
7. track - Floor tom - Sennheiser MD421
8. track - Hi-hat - Neumann KM84

What's the best configuration for my drums?

When I had a U87 [before it got stollen :-( ] I would NEVER let drum sticks that close to it! Do you really want a U87 on the snare?
#8
27th March 2006
Old 27th March 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 
by-tor's Avatar
 

I gotta agree that a U87 on the snare is not a good idea. I don't think it was meant for that kind of spl.
denny
Thread Starter
#9
28th March 2006
Old 28th March 2006
  #9
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
OK
new configuration:

bass drum - d112
snare - km84
tom1 - km86 (fig-8)
tom2- km86 (fig-8)
floor tom - md421
overhead-l - c12a (ab system)
overhead-r - c12a (ab system)
ambient - cmv563


cmv563 with M7 or M9 ?

my mic preamps:
summit audio tpa200 - 2 channels tube pre ( for overheads ?)
amek tac bullet - 12 channels

i haven't a KM84, KM86 but KM74 and KM76 - it's the same, only with t-power
denny
Thread Starter
#10
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #10
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Or this setup?


Glyn Johns drum mic setup: one of the truely great engineers, Glyn Johns' credits include the kinks ,the stones,the who and the beatles, amoung many others. His technique of drum micing is fast and sounds great. You can use 20 mics and take 3 days to set them up, and if you're lucky, it might sound as good as this technique, which takes about 20 minutes. Hint: it only works well if you have a good drummer and a good sounding room to record in...



1) Over (cardiod:panned Left) about 4"-6" above Floor Tom facing Hi-Hat across Snare.
2) Over (cardiod:Panned Right) about 2'-3' above the kit facing between the toms and snare.
3) Snare
4) Kick

5)room mics, bottom snare mic,2nd kick mic are all optional...the overheads work best if they are large diaphragm condensers....


denny
Thread Starter
#11
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #11
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
BD - D112
snare - km74
overhead l - c12a
overhead r - c12a
snare bottom - km74
2nd BD - u87

room MS = neumann cmv563 with m7
neumann um57 - figure 8


OK?
#12
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #12
Gear addict
 
phelbin's Avatar
 

Yeah, the U87 is probably not best for the snare. You almost can't go wrong with a 57 on the snare. But even if you go with a different mic, think about putting the 57 on the bottom of the snare.

Toms and 421's were made for each other.

I use my KM84's as drum overheads and I love how they sound.

I noticed you don't have any room mics listed. Is your room even big enough for that? The U87 and the KM86's would give a nice big room sound if placed strategically around the room.

Good luck!
denny
Thread Starter
#13
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #13
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Room is 380m2.
I have a room mics - Neuman um57 and cmv563 with m7
#14
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #14
Gear nut
 
AmbientSound's Avatar
 

I would never trust any drummer near a U87 with a drum stick

If the drummer is a loud player, even with the pad in it probably won't handle the spl. I agree with using it for a room mic. 421's and toms do go together and I agree with the 'if you can't get a good snare sound with a 57 then something else is wrong' comment.

Well everyone else has pretty much said it all. I don't know why I am posting. Just bored I guess.
#15
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #15
Gear addict
 

How does the D6 compare to a Beta 52?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous C

Yeah, the D6 is alot nicer than the D112 for mine.

Hope it works for you

C
#16
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #16
Lives for gear
Think twice about putting your KM86's on the Toms. You can get toms sounding good with much lessor mics. The 86's are very nice mics. Why have someone mistakenly hit it with a stick.



Quote:
Originally Posted by denny
OK
new configuration:

bass drum - d112
snare - km84
tom1 - km86 (fig-8)
tom2- km86 (fig-8)
floor tom - md421
overhead-l - c12a (ab system)
overhead-r - c12a (ab system)
ambient - cmv563


cmv563 with M7 or M9 ?

my mic preamps:
summit audio tpa200 - 2 channels tube pre ( for overheads ?)
amek tac bullet - 12 channels

i haven't a KM84, KM86 but KM74 and KM76 - it's the same, only with t-power
#17
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #17
Gear maniac
 
ethan_c's Avatar
 

This is what I do:

ifet7 and/or D112 on kick
ifet7 for snare/hi-hat
SF-12 for 'closer' overheads
U195 for ride and toms
DPA 4006's for ambient room mics
#18
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #18
Lives for gear
 
mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

I would not stick my U87 in the path of a drum stick. Use the SM 57.

The only thing I would add is a Bottom Snare (Sennheiser MD 441) and a Outside Kik (Neumann U47fet or Yamaha Sub Speaker). Maybe a room mic would be nice, you could darken up and compress the U87 and place it close the floor depending on your room. Or possibly the cmv563.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
#19
30th March 2006
Old 30th March 2006
  #19
Lives for gear
 
insomnio's Avatar
 

Very nice mic collection.
Overheads-KM84
Snare-57 (...Yes, I know)
Toms-421
Kik-D112

I tend to like dynamics on drums.


_________________
Insomnio
#20
2nd April 2006
Old 2nd April 2006
  #20
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujo
How does the D6 compare to a Beta 52?
Their both pretty good. Most Rock/Indie engineers who play our venue like the Beta 52. Most Metal/Harcore engineers seem to opt for the M88/D6. I don't think that tells you anything in reality. The D6 is maybe has a bit more high end gain for mine, But I'm quite happy with either when I rock up to a place...
#21
2nd April 2006
Old 2nd April 2006
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Bishbashbosh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous C
Their both pretty good. Most Rock/Indie engineers who play our venue like the Beta 52. Most Metal/Harcore engineers seem to opt for the M88/D6. I don't think that tells you anything in reality. The D6 is maybe has a bit more high end gain for mine, But I'm quite happy with either when I rock up to a place...
My own personal preferencem is the 52 over the Audix. I find the Audix a little too clicky for my taste (but that's exactly what makes it great for metal!), whereas the 52 is a great allrounder for more varied kick sounds, including in front of an unported front head.
It also sounds fab for miking bass cabs.

To the original poster, you have a GREAT selection of mics.
The only way i can think that list would be improved would be to add a FET47 or equivalent for outside the kick, and maybe a pair of Coles to complement the C12's for room/ overheads, but as it stands you alteady have 'industry standard' mics.

Next on the list: The Room, The Pre's, the Converters......
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