Questions for Mwagener re: Skid Row

[ultra motion]

Hi Michael!

Seeing as how you were the man behind producing/engineering/mixing one of the best 80's rock/metal bands, I'd like to ask you something that has been on my mind recently.

1. When you were working on '40 Seasons: The Best Of Skid Row' compilation, how did you guys manage to uncover and properly remix two unreleased songs 'Fire In A Hole' and 'Forever'? I always wondered why they weren't included on the albums originally. I think it'd be cool to see a WHOLE compilation of earlier unreleased Skid Row material including those two unreleased songs. Why didn't their label think of that???
I know there are a bunch of unreleased demo songs from 1988 that are floating on the net and titled 'Skid Row 1988 and 1989 Demos'. Plus, there is also an unreleased track from 'Slave To The Grind' session called 'Burn'.

2. The overt 80's production/recording technique has been a favorite of mine in the whole 80's rock/metal field and still is, considering today's standards and not to mention the 80's production on first two Skid Row albums. So, I'm just curious how did you achieve the OVERT 80's production on their first two albums during the whole engineering/placement of the mics/mixing process? Is it more easier to achieve that with today's digital technology?

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by ultra motion

Hi Michael!

Seeing as how you were the man behind producing/engineering/mixing one of the best 80's rock/metal bands, I'd like to ask you something that has been on my mind recently.

1. When you were working on '40 Seasons: The Best Of Skid Row' compilation, how did you guys manage to uncover and properly remix two unreleased songs 'Fire In A Hole' and 'Forever'? I always wondered why they weren't included on the albums originally. I think it'd be cool to see a WHOLE compilation of earlier unreleased Skid Row material including those two unreleased songs. Why didn't their label think of that???
I know there are a bunch of unreleased demo songs from 1988 that are floating on the net and titled 'Skid Row 1988 and 1989 Demos'. Plus, there is also an unreleased track from 'Slave To The Grind' session called 'Burn'.

'Fire In The Hole' and 'Forever' where songs we recorded and mixed originally in 1988. They were extras for the first album but since we were supposed to put only 11 songs on the album, those got booted by unanimous decission. I personally love "Forever", but we already had two ballads on the album so I agreed with the band not to put it on.

Now, when we put together "40 Seasons" the original idea was to remix ALL songs for that release, BUT the original recordings were half digital and half analog, meaning the drums and bass were on analog tape (15 min at 30ips) and the rest was on Mitsubishi digital 32 track (30 min runtime per roll). That meant in order to have the mukltitracks for a complete set, you had to have one digital reel and two matching analog reels. Believe it or not, we weren't able to find all the reels in the Atlantic vault and we couldn't even get one complete song together for the remix. So we used the original masters and just re-mastered to make them fit with the remixes. Fire and Forever were already mixed back then and I had copies of the masters on a cassette tape which we re-mastered. So the only songs that got remixed were songs from "Subhuman Race" which Bob Rock had produced and the band still had all the tapes.

I still have quite a few unreleased or demo recordings in my basement that would make every bootlegger's heart jump right out of his chest

Originally Posted by ultra motion

2. The overt 80's production/recording technique has been a favorite of mine in the whole 80's rock/metal field and still is, considering today's standards and not to mention the 80's production on first two Skid Row albums. So, I'm just curious how did you achieve the OVERT 80's production on their first two albums during the whole engineering/placement of the mics/mixing process? Is it more easier to achieve that with today's digital technology?

I would say there is not really any difference in technique to achive that sound. If anything I would think it's easier now than it was then, thinking about autotune, editing etc. All those drums were recorded in one complete take, no editing. I used to comp the vocals and if there was a word with a great attitude but bad pitch, I had to comp that via an Eventide Harmonizer and kinda guess the pitch.

We recorded on digital tape (partly) and the rest is just (over-) use of the then brand new digital reverbs On the first album a major part of the big drum sound is the "Listen Compressor" in the SSL. We had a SM57 over the drummer's shoulder, originally thought of as a talkback mic (the drums were in a monster big convention center outside of the studio complex) but when I heard the sound from that mic I decided to record it as well, came in handy during the mix.

The part that might be different today is the attention to detail. We had a lot of time to try different things, in a great studio, with an amazing mic collection and great sounding rooms. We had done a month of pre-production to get the arrangements right and at the end of pre-pro we did a quick demo in a small studio in NJ, just to see how it could sound with overdubs etc. So, by the time we got to Royal Recorders all we had to do is get a great sound and get the right attitude on "tape". I remember it took me 3 full days to get the guitar sound right for the first song.

It was all about finding the right environment and then start recording. I have the feeling nowadays sometime it's the other way around: start recording, then put a plug-in on to fix it. For "Slave..." we checked out 6 different studios, actually going there, hear the rooms, check out the vibe in and around the studio. The whole project was planned from start to end, even the album cover.

We are starting a new SkidRow album next month and we are going to do it the same old way, just with different equipment. You think it's a good enough band for Adam's first project?

[picksail]

Originally Posted by mwagener

We are starting a new SkidRow album next month and we are going to do it the same old way, just with different equipment. You think it's a good enough band for Adam's first project?

That's quite a nice indoctrination for him. Will Sebastian be participating in the production of this album?

[pixelhead]

Originally Posted by mwagener

We had a SM57 over the drummer's shoulder, originally thought of as a talkback mic (the drums were in a monster big convention center outside of the studio complex) but when I heard the sound from that mic I decided to record it as well, came in handy during the mix.

I dont have my CD around to look. Did you do that record at Royal Recorders?

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by picksail

That's quite a nice indoctrination for him. Will Sebastian be participating in the production of this album?

No, I don't think that will EVER happen again, but then again, stranger things have happened

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by pixelhead

I dont have my CD around to look. Did you do that record at Royal Recorders?

Yep, Royal Recorders in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. Unfortunately it's no more...

[KingUgly]

Personally, I would never buy a Van Halen album without David Lee Roth, just as I would never buy any Skid Row album without Sebastian Bach.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by KingUgly

Personally, I would never buy a Van Halen album without David Lee Roth, just as I would never buy any Skid Row album without Sebastian Bach.

Is it possible to acquiesce in print?

Nonetheless, I would give ANY music a fair chance.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by picksail

Nonetheless, I would give ANY music a fair chance.

You asked for it, dude - let us know what you think :

http://www.wingmusic.co.nz/listen.html

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by Sqye

You asked for it, dude - let us know what you think :

http://www.wingmusic.co.nz/listen.html

Brilliant

[picksail]

Originally Posted by Sqye

You asked for it, dude - let us know what you think :

http://www.wingmusic.co.nz/listen.html

Hahahaha!!!!

I remember this one.

I guess you got me there.

Albeit, I do have to give her credit for having the audacity to see this music to fruition, create a web-site, put the music up for sale and use her own likeness as the 'covergirl'.

She has much bigger balls than myself.

[RPiper]

Hi Michael

Thanks for the great insight into the Skid Row albums.. STTG Its one of my favourite things you have done..

I was wondering if you have any thoughts or memories of doing the vocals for that album ? I think Sebastians performances on that are truely out of this world, especially some of the screams he does in things like Wasted Time. I call the outro to that song the "death sequence" and when i hear his singing it almost sounds like he is channeling christ on the cross.. Well i dont really think this, but it does sound massive..

Id love to hear any memories you may have of doing this.. Were the vocals done quickly or did it take a while ? What mics, pre amps, and other signal path did you use for his voice ? Also how long did you take to mix the whole album ? And my final question is... I hope that's not too many questions ?

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by RPiper

Hi Michael

Thanks for the great insight into the Skid Row albums.. STTG Its one of my favourite things you have done..

I was wondering if you have any thoughts or memories of doing the vocals for that album ? I think Sebastians performances on that are truely out of this world, especially some of the screams he does in things like Wasted Time. I call the outro to that song the "death sequence" and when i hear his singing it almost sounds like he is channeling christ on the cross.. Well i dont really think this, but it does sound massive..

Id love to hear any memories you may have of doing this.. Were the vocals done quickly or did it take a while ? What mics, pre amps, and other signal path did you use for his voice ? Also how long did you take to mix the whole album ? And my final question is... I hope that's not too many questions ?

Well, let's just say it was quite involved. Baz is a great performer, but having too many great tracks for comping can be a lot of work. I'm glad that you like the final result.

The mic we used was a Telefunken ELAM 251 which we rented from Royal Recorders. It was the exact same mic we had used on the first album. The mic pre was a John Hardy M-1 with output transformers. Can't remember the comressor we used at New River Studio (Larrchild, do you remember???). The console was an old Neve (#?) and we recorded to Mitsubishi 32 track digital. The mix was done at Scream Studio in LA on a SSL 6000. I think it took me a couple of days per song.

The song "Slave To The Grind" is actually the live demo we did at the end of pre-production at a studio in NJ (also Neve and Mitsubishi). It was recorded and mixed in one hour. We tried to get the same vibe when we recorded the album, but never got it, so we used the demo Baz is using a handheld SM58 on this track

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by mwagener

It was recorded and mixed in one hour.

Geez, Michael.

It took a WHOLE hour???

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by blackcatdigi

Geez, Michael.

It took a WHOLE hour???

I know, we were slacking off...

But really, there is only a few things in life that I find more exhilarating than a great band rocking in the studio together and creating some magic. When I was still smoking, I always needed a cigarette after such a take...

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Sqye

You asked for it, dude - let us know what you think :

http://www.wingmusic.co.nz/listen.html

OMG..I JUST WOKE UP ....
F*CKING BRILLIANT!

[RPiper]

Originally Posted by mwagener

I know, we were slacking off...

But really, there is only a few things in life that I find more exhilarating than a great band rocking in the studio together and creating some magic. When I was still smoking, I always needed a cigarette after such a take...

Thanks for your reply.. Much appreciated..

I agree with your comment about a band rocking and creating magic.. Especially like Skid Row at that part of their career.. I have a video of them rehearsing for that tour and it's really great.. Full of energy..

Look forward to hearing what you do on their new CD Michael.. I liked their last one with the new singer although i didnt think too much of the tones.. It sounded boxy and harsh to me, especially the drums.. I do like the the style of their newer songs though.. Cant wait to hear it..

[Larrchild]

Can't remember the comressor we used at New River Studio (Larrchild, do you remember???).

If it wasn't from your rack, it was most likely an La-2a or 1176. I remember you had a GML eq and a BBE hot-sauce box on the mix bus.

Console was a Neve 8108 and it was 56 ch's at that point. (Became 70 ch later)
And we bought that $120,000 used Mitsubishi X-850 just for this gig! They sell for $500 now, lol.

Baz was warming up in a conference room before a vocal session and as I walk by the door, I heard him belting out "Summer Breeze" by Seals and Crofts! I'm like WTF.

His cameo on 'Gilmore Girls" as a potential band member in the kids garage band was f'in hilarious. Too Old.

[Killahurts]

Originally Posted by mwagener

We are starting a new SkidRow album next month and we are going to do it the same old way, just with different equipment. You think it's a good enough band for Adam's first project?

I don't know Michael, I think maybe you're taking advantage of him...

[Killahurts]

Originally Posted by Larrchild

And we bought that $120,000 used Mitsubishi X-850 just for this gig! They sell for $500 now, lol.

lol

And it would cost me more than that to bake the tapes I still have, recorded on that machine back in the day (if they haven't turned to dust by now).

I'm trying to remember if that was the digital machine where you couldn't punch in on time to save your life..

Or was that me?

In those days, if a recording machine required me to be sober to operate it, I already had a problem.

[mtstudios@charter]

Originally Posted by mwagener

The song "Slave To The Grind" is actually the live demo we did at the end of pre-production at a studio in NJ (also Neve and Mitsubishi). It was recorded and mixed in one hour. We tried to get the same vibe when we recorded the album, but never got it, so we used the demo Baz is using a handheld SM58 on this track

What is that saying? That goes to show it is performance over all the above. And You.

[liquidorange]

i love that dry ride sound on slave to the grind. freeking brilliant! who thought a ride cymbal could sound punchy . ive got a radio demo they did before the first album. what energy.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by mtstudi@pacbell

What is that saying? That goes to show it is performance over all the above. And You.

That's why we kept it

[WidgetNinja]

Originally Posted by mwagener

The song "Slave To The Grind" is actually the live demo we did at the end of pre-production at a studio in NJ (also Neve and Mitsubishi).

That's it, I now hate Sebastian Bach.

That intro scream is solid.

[Larrchild]

Michael,
I wonder what became of all that 8mm video footage Scott Hill shot of STTG sessions?
I bet that would be a classic today!

And I was thinking,,we also had one of those Neve compressors. Wonder if that got used on vox? I'm gonna track down Riley Connell (asst) and see if he remembers.
Peace,

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by mwagener

The song "Slave To The Grind" is actually the live demo we did at the end of pre-production at a studio in NJ (also Neve and Mitsubishi). It was recorded and mixed in one hour. We tried to get the same vibe when we recorded the album, but never got it, so we used the demo Baz is using a handheld SM58 on this track

Classic Talent wins everytime!

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by Larrchild

Michael,
I wonder what became of all that 8mm video footage Scott Hill shot of STTG sessions?
I bet that would be a classic today!

And I was thinking,,we also had one of those Neve compressors. Wonder if that got used on vox? I'm gonna track down Riley Connell (asst) and see if he remembers.
Peace,

I think I still have some of that, gotta dig around the basement.

[XSergeantD]

Originally Posted by mwagener

We are starting a new SkidRow album next month and we are going to do it the same old way, just with different equipment.

Great to hear they're out to make some more hits for us. Tell Snake to give me a ring when they're out in Vegas, I missed them by one day last time they were out here and you have to know how bad he is about returning phone calls. Anyway, it'll be great to hear what new stuff they'll be puttin out soon.